A question about cut-outs that's probably been asked before

I'm currently riding (between trainer and road) about 7 hours a week on my bike. I've been riding bout that frequently for about 2 months, now. (Should my privates be pretty tough by now?) My saddle is a Terry Butterfly Tri Gel and it does have a cut out in the center.

Now for the question: Are my privates supposed to fall down into the cut-out? The cut-out in my Terry is way too narrow for that to be happening. It doesn't seem to make a whole lot of difference to have the cut out if everything just ends up mashed on top of it anyway. I've been researching saddles for a while now, and it looks like the cut-out in the Selle Italia and some of the Serfas saddles is wider and I wonder if that might be a good thing, or would it pinch?

Any advice, Ladies?

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Originally Posted by slinkedog

I'm currently riding (between trainer and road) about 7 hours a week on my bike. I've been riding bout that frequently for about 2 months, now. (Should my privates be pretty tough by now?) My saddle is a Terry Butterfly Tri Gel and it does have a cut out in the center.

Now for the question: Are my privates supposed to fall down into the cut-out? The cut-out in my Terry is way too narrow for that to be happening. It doesn't seem to make a whole lot of difference to have the cut out if everything just ends up mashed on top of it anyway. I've been researching saddles for a while now, and it looks like the cut-out in the Selle Italia and some of the Serfas saddles is wider and I wonder if that might be a good thing, or would it pinch?

Any advice, Ladies?

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Erm, I think most everyone agrees that stuff falling into the cutout is bad. The idea of the cutout is simply to relieve direct pressure, not to let things relocate.

That said, I have a Serfas cut-out saddle and like it. My parts don't fall in. I'm not really sure how anyone's parts fall in when wearing lycra with a chamois inside, but I guess it does happen occasionally to some people.

Well, I guess that's sort of what I mean. Not fall in, exactly, but be where the cutout is and not be totally smashed. I tried out a Fizik saddle with no cutout or channel at my LBS and I honestly didn't feel any difference from my Terry with a cutout. I hope that clarifies a little.

Some parts toughen up and some parts don't; your "sit bone" area will but not the other parts (I don't even want to think about calluses there). No, you need a different saddle. Go check with your LBS about which saddles have return policies so you can try them. I personally love the new anatomic cut Avocet Air 02. There is an indentation in just the right place for these parts that I haven't seen in other brands. Avocet used to have a return policy. I've never tried a cut-out saddle so I can't compare, but I have heard that you either love them or hate them -- no middle ground.

Hey Sadie... I saw in another post about your happiness with your Avocet saddle. I went onto their website but was unable to ascertain exactly which one you have. I'd like to give it a go. I sent their Customer Service an email trying to figure it out and I'm awaiting their reply. Where did you get it?

Thanks for your response, Ladies. I'm still trying to figure this all out, and unfortunately, even though my husband knows a lot about bikes, he just can't quite relate to this specific issue. ;)

Parts bulging into a hole or parts smashed against a seat.... I'm thinking the parts shouldn't have so much pressure on them to make it an issue if your sit-bones are sitting right on the appropriate spot and the seat is tilted at just the right angle to make that happen. So far, I haven't been able to get my seat to that "sweet spot." Parts are a pain - we ought to be able to zip them up into a pocket when we ride! I don't even want to think about what happens to boy parts. :eek:

According to my husband, boy parts don't seem to have too much of a problem. Lucky them.

V.

I use the Super Anatomic Air 02 40. If this image uploads properly, you'll see the cup-shaped indentation in the middle of what WTB would call their "Love Channel." For years, I used the previous generation of this saddle with good success. I needed to replace a saddle and tried this new and improved version and was very impressed. I couldn't believe how much more comfortable it is. Bubba even switched to the boy's version on the tandem and his Knobby X. Avocet does have a 30-day back guarantee. I would call Avocet rather than waiting for an email (I have better success with this with most of the bike companies). If all else fails, The Rest Stop in Sacramento usually has these in stock.

Avocet Super Anatomic Air 02

Edited to add that I use the titanium-railed version. I'll take any extra little bit of spring for comfort not to mention that you save a whopping 20 grams! :D I can tell the difference between Ti rails and chromoly when I'm on a bumpy road. Must be my delicate "little" tush. :rolleyes:

This saddle looks great! I actually called Avocet, per your suggestion, and they said this is pretty much their mainstay saddle. Curious that they don't have the specs and such on their site. Oh well. Anyway, there are a couple of shops where I can buy it locally, but the 30 day guarantee is no more. I'll see if I can take my bike, have them put it on and take a little ride about the area and see how it does. Thankfully the place that carries it is right on a main cycling drag in Los Altos.

Thanks for the info!!

Glad, you found it. The site says 30-day guarantee so I'd push them on this one. Also, if you click on the link above and scroll to the bottom of the page you'll see a link for specifications.

As I've said before, this is a great road saddle. The back of the saddle is wide to fit a women's pelvis, but the padding is only where you need it so the nose can be kept very narrow, meaning no chafing.

Sadie, I picked up the saddle this morning and will mount it when I get the kids down for naps. The bike shop said I had 30 days to return it, so who am I to argue??? ;)

I'll let you know how it goes! Thanks for the recommendation!

Okay, I got the Avocet saddle on my bike and I rode the trainer for about 40 minutes this morning... WOW! I do have to say that my sit bones are going to have to get used to it, but my soft tissue area was quite happy. I'm hoping to do about 30 miles tomorrow, so we'll see how it goes!! Thanks again for the rec, Sadie.

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Originally Posted by slinkedog

Okay, I got the Avocet saddle on my bike and I rode the trainer for about 40 minutes this morning... WOW! I do have to say that my sit bones are going to have to get used to it, but my soft tissue area was quite happy. I'm hoping to do about 30 miles tomorrow, so we'll see how it goes!! Thanks again for the rec, Sadie.

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Sadie, how wide is this saddle at the widest point?

I'm pretty happy with my current saddle, except I think it's just a *smidge* too wide for me at its widest.

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Originally Posted by slinkedog

Okay, I got the Avocet saddle on my bike and I rode the trainer for about 40 minutes this morning... WOW! I do have to say that my sit bones are going to have to get used to it, but my soft tissue area was quite happy. I'm hoping to do about 30 miles tomorrow, so we'll see how it goes!! Thanks again for the rec, Sadie.

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Oh, good, slinkedog. I'm glad the really delicate parts are happy. For me, that is the most important. This is not a cushy soft pillow of a saddle, but I find that I do best with this for long rides. The firmer support with the anatomic cut means I don't get pressure in the wrong spots as stuff squishes around inside the saddle. Sit bones are trainable; delicate parts are not.

Bounceswoosh, the website says 7 in wide by 10.2 which was confirmed with my trusty tape measure. :)

Just ground up Mt Diablo with V and Bubba and not a single twinge - 12 miles of grinding in the same *** gear and position all the way.

SadieKate

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Originally Posted by SadieKate

Bounceswoosh, the website says 7 in wide by 10.2 which was confirmed with my trusty tape measure. :)

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Wow, that's really wide. No go for me =/ Glad it works for you guys, though!

I'm with you, Bounce. My saddle is 6 3/4 across and it's just too wide for longer rides. My sit bones can't bear as much of the burden when the seat is so wide. Maybe it has to do with the slope of the seat shoulders, more than the width at the top of the saddle.

Bounce asked about the width at the widest point - 7 inches. If you measure from ctr to ctr of the highest points of contact, the width is 4 1/2 in. The saddle is fairly flat so you do sit firmly on your "sit bones" and take the weight off your delicate parts. I find that that too steep a slope means the saddle turns into a hatchet head no matter how wide it is. My sit bones hurt more when they feel like they're sliding downhill.

The seat of the saddle tapers very quickly to the nose which tapers to 1 1/8 in so there is no chafing of backs of legs and thighs.

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Originally Posted by nuthatch

I'm with you, Bounce. My saddle is 6 3/4 across and it's just too wide for longer rides. My sit bones can't bear as much of the burden when the seat is so wide. Maybe it has to do with the slope of the seat shoulders, more than the width at the top of the saddle.

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I have a Serfas saddle:

http://www.serfas.com/racing_saddles/TRCW.html

It's listed as 5" across, but I think it's actually slightly wider. I've noticed that it sometimes feels, after a while, like my hip has to go out more than it should in order to ride. Maybe it's because the saddle is also fairly tall. Hrm. Or maybe my thighs are just really wide =)

CindySue and I just did about 28 miles and my tush is pretty happy! I definitely felt it more in my sit bones, but it wasn't bad. My soft tissue area is very happy!!! I did get moments of feeling mashed, but I just got my butt back in the right position and it was better. I may need to tweak the angle a little, but so far so good!!

For me, the saddle needs to be level. You may also have to play with the fore/aft position. Changing saddles changes so much on the bike.

I have been having the same issue, but I have the seat that came with bike and it is a men's saddle. Today our LBS (previously professional cyclist in his younger years) rode with my husband and I, he watched my form and noticed that my seat was too high because of the stretch I was having to make with leg extention, and also moved nose down ever so slightly (for women's needs). I rode 3x longer today, this helped alot. I have a Terry Butterfly tri gel coming in by mail and it should relieve that pressure even more, can't wait to be able to ride a longer distance, as my legs were always ready but the other part was not willing to sacrafice more then I had already dished out. 1 hour is all I could go before. I rode for 3 hours today. I am a bit tender because I had already riden for an hour when asked to move to lead pos. for him to see my form.

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Originally Posted by AutumnBreez

I have been having the same issue, but I have the seat that came with bike and it is a men's saddle. Today our LBS (previously professional cyclist in his younger years) rode with my husband and I, he watched my form and noticed that my seat was too high because of the stretch I was having to make with leg extention, and also moved nose down ever so slightly (for women's needs). I rode 3x longer today, this helped alot. I have a Terry Butterfly tri gel coming in by mail and it should relieve that pressure even more, can't wait to be able to ride a longer distance, as my legs were always ready but the other part was not willing to sacrafice more then I had already dished out. 1 hour is all I could go before. I rode for 3 hours today. I am a bit tender because I had already riden for an hour when asked to move to lead pos. for him to see my form.

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Yes! Having a pro fix your seat height makes a huge difference. From what fitters have told me, women tend to put the seat too high and men tend to put it too low. Your legs should never extend fully while pedalling.

Getting a full-up professional fit is expensive, but can really be worth it, especially if someone's having pain or discomfort they can't pin down.

My terry liberator race is about 6-3/4 by 10.5. Fits me like a glove. Fore/aft and tilt are soo totally critical though. The unique thing with the lib-race is is it has a kinda sag and curve up to the nose, sorta settles you into a set area. If it is set right the added surface makes it more comfy, set wrong and it can really make the boyfriend who rides it sometimes quite unhappy :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by slinkedog

CindySue and I just did about 28 miles and my tush is pretty happy! I definitely felt it more in my sit bones, but it wasn't bad. My soft tissue area is very happy!!! I did get moments of feeling mashed, but I just got my butt back in the right position and it was better. I may need to tweak the angle a little, but so far so good!!

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Hey, slinkedog, what's the scoop. Are the sit bones OK? How's the saddle working out? I was thinking about you whilst spinning along at Party Pardee today.

Hey Sadie... thanks for asking! Well, the jury is still out. The sit bones are definitely taking more of the pressure, but I'm still experiencing pressure on the privates, to some degree. Last week with Cindy I rode about 28 miles and it felt really good. Today I did about 36 and I was slipping forward a lot. It's still better than my Terry, tho. I have a couple more weeks to decide, so I'm taking them!! :)

How are the Pardee?

Slipping forward - is the nose of the saddle tilted down a bit to much?

Pardee - beautiful weather and scenery. I'd never ridden up there and it was sure worth it. Saw Yellow and hubby as well as Kim and her driver at the end. They started almost an hour in front of us, but we were able to chat at the end.

It's totally flat. I checked. I think the thing is it has those raised places in the back and I slip off of them. I may try a very, very slight tilt up and see if that helps, but I'm afraid that will put more pressure on the privates. What do you think?

I'm so glad you had a good time yesterday! I'm already scoping rides for next year!! :) The Cindy jersey for next year is GORGEOUS!!! I think I'll have to ride it just to get one.

When you say you slip off the raised placesw, are you slipping forward? Tipping up the nose can put more weight on the back of the saddle but only if the saddle is far enough forward. How is your knee crank alignment? The saddle could be placing you a tad farther back than your old saddle. Even 1 mm could pull you forward.

On to the jersey, the logo is ready for next year? I swore I wouldn't do this ride again (Pardee was great!) but I might just do it to get the jersey. Will there be an early notification list again this year (2006)? Then, I could have dinner with everyone.

Pardee had little traffic, truly incredible law enforcement support, over 80% really excellent pavement, only 1,200 riders, beautiful wildflowers, emus, Mumb Gumbo, german choc cake, etc., etc., etc. Can you tell I liked it?

I'm so glad you had a good time at the Pardee! That sounds like a really cool ride. German chocolate cake is a very, very good thing. I'm trying a new oatmeal cookie recipe for the Tierra Bella this weekend. It has pecans, chocolate chunks and dried sour cherries instead of raisins. If they turn out well I'll bring a bunch to the ride to share with CindySue and anyone else from TE that I run into! :)

I had Blaine adjust my saddle forward just a little yesterday, but I won't get a real ride in for a couple of days since the bike is in the shop for a tune up as of today. Hopefully I'll get it back tomorrow or Wednesday. I'll see how it goes. I'm thinking about going to REI and getting one of those women's Serfas Rx saddles to try out, too. REI has a 100% satisfaction guarantee, so if I hate it I can return it. I'd like to compare it with the Avocet. I'm really looking forward to trying out the Avocet with the new adjustment. I'll keep you posted!