Today I sortof waved two people over (with a nod of my head) who were riding side by side, coming against me, so I did not have to slow down, and reaped a "whoa" from them -
so question: am I allowed my lane in the bike path?
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Today I sortof waved two people over (with a nod of my head) who were riding side by side, coming against me, so I did not have to slow down, and reaped a "whoa" from them -
so question: am I allowed my lane in the bike path?
My two cents: in a narrow path, anyone should be careful about allowing others to go through (whether coming in the opposite direction or from behind, moving faster) -- seeing you come in the opposite direction, the other people should have moved to single file.Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinerabbit
Yeah, but nobody ever does. It's one of my pet peeves, especially with walkers taking up the whole path--whether in the mall or the baseball stadium or the bike path.
I've taught all my children to walk single file behind me when we are walking in pedestrian traffic. I guess I'm too nice.
Karen
Of course you are!Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinerabbit
Would they walk into oncoming traffic and expect cars to stop for them?
.
A good question -- and there's not a single good answer.
What we call "bike paths" are in actuality "multi-user" paths, because the features that make them attractive to the average cyclist also makes them attractive to many other users. Because of the congestion - walkers, joggers, rollerbladers, baby strollers, dogs (some leashed, some not), horses, etc. - paths require different considerations than road riding.
Bike paths have rules that very few users abide by. For example, here's the sign posted at the entrances to North Little Rock's River Trail:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...l/BDBSign1.jpg
Similar signs are posted over on the Little Rock side of the River Trail. Does anybody pay attention to them? You can probably see this one coming... :p
As I said, there's not a single good answer. Here's how I deal with the question in my Road I and other bike safety classes, from my class notes:
[quote]
In order to stay safe, it is imperative that bicyclists, the fastest users, yield to slower users. Because there are so many different users, it is hard to get everyone to follow the same rules. Runners don’t know if they should run on the right or left side, roller-bladers can easily take up the entire lane as they sway back and forth, children are erratic and unpredictable, and adults usually assume that they can just let the kids go.
If you do use multi-user paths, you must yield to everyone as you are the fastest user and have the greatest responsibility. What cars are to bicyclists on the road, bicyclists are to pedestrians on the paths. Be responsible.
Bicyclists Sharing the Path
Despite cyclists feeling that their true enemy is the automobile, it could be held that the conflict between bicyclists and pedestrians is most threatening to cyclists’ rights. The problem is not that pedestrians and bicyclists cannot co-exist, but that we have never been taught how to deal with each other. Bicyclists can learn how to ride in traffic from books or friends, or by applying principles they learned when they were taught to drive a car, but techniques for dealing with pedestrians, either on bike paths or on streets are not as well-known.
Fortunately, much of what we’ve learned about riding in traffic will readily apply to riding the bike paths, too…
Run, ride, walk, skate – on the right. You will still conflict with club runners who believe they should be going against traffic, but you must watch out for these jokers in any case.
Pass only on the left – not on the right. People don’t expect anyone to be coming up on their right side.
Always yield to pedestrians (more in a little bit...)
Ride at a speed that’s appropriate for the traffic density on the trail. The River Trail, or any other multi-use trail, is simply not a place to hold your fast pack rides or practice your time-trialing.
Yield to Pedestrians: Don't ever assume a pedestrian is looking out for you. If you hit a pedestrian, it is going to be considered your fault even if you have the right of way. Legally, the pedestrian always has the right of way. It is your responsibility to be aware of and be prepared for all the thoughtless, crazy moves that pedestrians will make.
Pedestrian Reactions
The first principle in dealing with pedestrians from a bike is that they don't know how to deal with you, either. Unlike automobiles, which can be directed by the bicyclist into proper action, pedestrians are less likely to react to a bicycle even if they see them.
Remember, a properly tuned bike is almost silent; those on foot may be listening rather than looking for trouble. Bells let people (including non-English speakers) know a cyclist is coming. But to get the attention of drivers and peds, nothing beats the human voice. "YO!" "Stop!" "Coming through!" or even a loud "Excuse me!" do the trick. The goal: Let them know where you are, where you are going, and what you want them to do. What I’ve found to work for me is a simple greeting as I approach from the rear, reinforced by a bike bell for the ones who don’t respond to a voice.
Still, don't count on people responding. The law calls for using extra caution to avoid pedestrians, regardless of right-of-way. If things get dicey, hit the brakes. Hitting a ped will stop you just as quickly as hitting a solid object, and the repercussions are far more serious. Riding unnecessarily close to peds ("buzzing" them) scares them and endangers both of you and is the worst publicity cyclists can get. A slight miscalculation or last-minute move can cause a serious (and seriously stupid) accident.
With cooperation, we can get and keep pleasant places to bicycle and walk. With conflict, we could lose the paths we have and have to fight larger forces to maintain our full access to city streets.
You can increase your safety by increasing your awareness of traffic conditions. Don’t take the blame. Do take charge of your own situation.
Tom
Great tips Tom.
I'd add another one: NO iPODS and NO PHONES (for anyone using the paths)!!! In close quarters where people depend on audible warnings - and where posted rules may require audible warnings - the person being warned should at least have the courtesy not to drown out the warning.
But to answer rabbit's question: yes, it was them and not you who was being rude. In similar situations (and since I rarely take the road bike onto the trail, so I'm normally on the hybrid), rather than slow down, I'll very conspicuously veer into the grass, so they'll know they ran me off the road. Not that they probably care.
I would say, of course you're allowed your lane...
...but don't expect it to be given to you.
That's why I don't ride many of the paths anymore. I get too ticked off by the lack of common courtesy. :(
I'll add one little tip to this, one that I picked up from Bicycling magazine and have found makes a huuuge difference on the multi-use trails that I frequent:Quote:
Originally Posted by PscyclePath
Whether you're using your voice or a bell, you need to warn people far enough in advance to give them time to be startled and then figure out what to do. I usually whistle or yell "Bicycle behind you!!" when I'm a few hundred feet from pedestrians or slower cyclists and the response is pretty much always the same: They'll generally turn around and see me, swivel their head around while they assess the situation, make a decision, then move to one side or the other. I will then steer towards the side that they've left clear for me and say hello or thank you as I go by.
It's also worked a few times ("Bicycle ahead of you!") for people taking up too much space coming towards me. The one thing it doesn't work on is those doofii who insist on wearing earphones :rolleyes:
I did the off road thing on Saturday. We were riding on a bike trail at Duke, and came upon a group of students walking side by side, taking up the *entire* path. They *would not* move over. I contemplated stopping and making like a tree so they would *have* to move or walk into a fixed object. I went around on the grass, waved and shouted thank you (it had been a bad day...)
CA
Common courtesy and common sense should be protected species.Quote:
Originally Posted by northstar
The 15 or so of us on our Saturday Saunter were taking the MUS out of town and I was in front... so I pretty-close-to-literally brayed at the headphone-laden jogger as we approached (since we were already making a fair amount of noise and had called out "jogger up!" ... and I had this horrible laryngitis so I sounded rather donkeyesque anyway)... and she jumped and got out of the way and gave us a thumbs up and a smile...
... but I thought... gosh and golly, lady, you think that's what people should *have* to do to get your attention?
I kinda like doing both road and path on this route since it's educational. My beginner level riders can see the advantages and disadvantages to the path... and then for most of the ride we're on the roads, anyway.
This is what I try to do - is give plenty of warning - but of course, this is difficult if there are lots of people on the trail. The other day I gave lots of warning to two ladies on a down hill section who were walking next to each other going the same way I was going - I was overtaking them; They were walking along, I said bike coming - on your left - and they both proceeded to bump into each other and almost knock each other down, then look behind and finally realize after some more jostling which way to go. It was fairly fun to watch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalidurga
spoke
Would agree with others that as a cyclist, you should expect your own lane in a bike path/multi-purpose path, but don't expect it to be granted to you.
There are some multi-purpose paths in our city that I studiously avoid during certain hours of the day. However such paths have served me excellently ...early in the morning. :rolleyes: I don't diss such paths, because for me, some paths if geograhically designed in an ideal manner, one can avoid over 30 different 4-way/traffic light intersections on the road..(this is very true in City of Toronto where I was commuting from suburbs into downtown).
I would say 75% of time, I use the bell...and give advance warning. Other times it's verbally..."on your left". Usually the latter is useful for joggers and other folks who look more athletic in their activity/attire.
Some of our paths are heavily promoted ...for tourists or they are near rental bike stores/rollerblade shops. It is abit disconcerting particularily not the tourist cyclists wobbling...but the tourist rollerbladers, of whom, you can see, some folks are very unsteady on their rollerbladers.
This is why I dislike multiuse paths, and why I think they're often considerably more dangerous than riding on the road.
Yeah, I feel this way about shoppers in Wally World. They hog the middle of the aisle with their cart and don't give one hooey about others. Oh, and the dawdlers who take their time walking as a group down the middle of the street as you are patiently waiting to pull into a parking place. :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by northstar
The one that gets me is the parent that knows you are in front/behind them, and yet allow their children to STOP in the middle of the path. I don't ride on paths anymore, but I do run on them and this irritates the fire out of me. Then there are the parents that allow their children to come running in front of me to look at my dog. Don't get me started.
Hmm, I would hope so but how does Swiss law differ from German law? Over here bike paths are one way unless specifically signposted otherwise and then they usually have a little dividing line like on the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinerabbit
Of course, a lot of people ignore the rule which is a pain in the neck.
From Best of Craig's List. If you are easily offended skip this post.
RANT: Minuteman Trail: People Who Suck
Date: 2005-04-26, 8:26AM EDT
I know this is a rant but whatever, I put it in the rant section also. Every once in a while I take an easy ride on the Minuteman bike path. By the time I am done I swear never again. A month later I don’t want to go to the fells and repeat the same mistake again. I know the bike path is for everyone but HOLY **** there are some really annoying people on it.
1) Two-A-Breasters: There is a reason the bike path has a yellow line. You *** wipes ride (or walk) side by side and hog the whole thing. Get with the program! The only good thing about you are your screams of fright as I blow by you without warning.
2) Queer-Eye-For-The-Biker-Guy: I realize that it is possible to buy an entire suit made from Spandex. It is also possible to beat off with a cheese grater, that doesn’t necessarily make it a good idea. If you were you going fast enough to make wind resistance an issue I might be more understanding but you are usually granny-gearing it as you swerve around trying to adjust your $200 sunglasses. Spend less time buying expensive crap and more time riding.
3) Slow-And-Lowers: Do you know that you can adjust your bike seat so that you don’t look like a bear riding a mini-bike at the circus? Take the 30 goddamn seconds to raise the freakin’ seat. Your back will thank you and you’ll be able to break 12 miles per hour with out blowing out a knee cap.
4) Sky-Bar-Enders: Bar ends ARE NOT for getting your hand six inches above the handle bars. They should not be pointing straight up in the goddamn air! If you don’t know exactly why you would want bar ends then YOU DON’T NEED THEM. They are not a convenient resting place for your chubby hands. They are for getting your weight forward during a STEEP TECHNICAL CLIMB. I hope impale yourself on them after you hit a tree because you couldn’t reach the brake lever in time.
5) Richie-****: Yah you, the guy with the $3000 full suspension big hit bike poking along the bike trail. The biggest hit you have ever taken was when you got butt raped by the guy who sold you that bike. YOU SUCK! You are the same dumbass who buys a Hummer so you can gun it when you roll over some construction on Mass Ave. You buy a sweet bike and then ride it on freakin’ pavement. I know you have never hit the trail cause’ there is NO DIRT on the thing. Not a spek. Plus you look like a *****. Either take it off pavement or give it to someone who will.
6) On-Your-Late: Ok there is absolutely nothing wrong with a well timed “On your left” but here is the thing. The whole point of saying it is to warn the rider in front of you that you will soon pass them. Not that you are already next to them on their left side! If your bike is next to mine, IT’S TOO FREAKIN LATE. If we were going to collide we would have. You screaming “On your left” in my ear at that point will only increase the chances of me making an error and crashing into you. Just pass you re-tred.
7) The HFS (Huge ****ing Stroller): HOLY ****! Are you running a cloning lab? If your stroller needs a brake it’s too damn big. Take your kids to the playground and play some tag or something. Jesus, there are bikes flying by at 30 miles per hour. If one hits you your kid will ****ing die. I know you think the world will stop for you and your precious little angels but get a clue. Three words “Severe Head Trauma”.
8) Woof-Woof-Splat: Keep your dog on a leash you ***. First of all it’s the ****ING LAW. Second of all your dog is dumb. So dumb in fact, that it will run in front of my bike to eat some piece of **** left by another jackass dog walker. I WILL hit your dog. I will not get killed or hurt somebody else trying to swerve around Fido. I almost died last year trying to avoid an unleashed dog and will not repeat the mistake. I love dogs but I like my unbroken bones better. Take responsibility for your pet.
9) Roller Bladers: You all suck ***, flailing your arms wildly as you coast along on you roller skates. YES they are roller skates and thus, quite lame. I don’t care if the wheels are “inline”. You jackasses suck so hard I have to break you down into sub-categories of suck.
9.A) Newbi-Tard: You people are ridiculous. You are all decked out in helmets and pads. You mostly look terrified as your (usually fat) *** careens down the very slight grade of the trail. Here is a hint. If you don’t know how to STOP then it probably isn’t safe for you or anyone else for you to be on the path. I swear one of you is gonna fall in front of me and get an imprint of my front sprocket on your fat thighs.
9.B) Pack Of Newbi-Tards: See above but clustered together, literally hanging onto each other for protection. You are worse than the individuals. You take up the WHOLE TRAIL so nobody can pass. Heed the dirty looks you get and go find a freaking parking lot. I hope to kick one of you as I ride by and watch as you all fall over in a flabby whimpering heap.
9.C) Hot Chicks With Skimpy Outfits: The only reason you suck is because you are fully clothed and make me slow down to check you out. Other than that you rock.
9.D) Super Sweet Doooods: You guys are sooo ****ing gay it’s not even funny. You think you are awesome as you take up the whole trail gliding back and forth in super sweet slow motion. I dream of you flying off the trail and getting wrapped around a tree.
People Of Mention:
Having been on the path more than a few times I have come to recognize a select few people who require special attention.
The kid who shot me with a plastic BB gun: I saw you hiding behind the bush well before you shot me. You were lucky I was going fast when the yellow BB hit my chest and thus had to slow down a little before leaping off my bike and chasing you as far as your back yard. You were scared shitless which is good because you could kill someone doing that ****. If I ever see you again you won’t be so lucky.
The 35 people who rode by me pretending I didn’t exist as I asked for a spare tube or a patch kit after blowing both of my spare tubes: You all suck ***. A very nice lady eventually stopped and gave me a patch. I know I was covered in mud but come on people. I always stop and ask people if they need help, common freaking courtesy.
The Decked Out Intense Midget Woman: OK you are not actually a midget but you do look very small. Or perhaps you look small in comparison to the mounds of crap attached to your mountain bike which is too big for you and I am sure has never left the pavement. Not only do you fall into categories 2, 4, 5 and 6. You were also one of the 35 jerks who didn’t help me. In fact you looked me in the eye and didn’t even slow down. I KNOW you have every sort of tool and tube imaginable packed away in your various slings and packs yet you rode by as if I were invisible. You look like a goddamn scuba diver with your neoprene outfit and mirrors sticking off of every available part of your bike. I see you on Mass Ave. from time to time in the morning on my way to work. You look retarded. And why do you hang a huge plastic bag from your bar ends?!?!?! It looks like your gear makes you waterproof to the depth of at least 15 meters. What are the bags doing? Worst of all YOU ARE SLOW!!!!! God you are slow. Jettison some of your useless **** and maybe I won’t blow by you 4 times in one ride.
Tubby Guy On The Tiny Road Bike: I’ve only seen you a few times. Once I passed you through an intersection not knowing that this would enrage you so much that you would be forced to almost hit me as you sprinted past me sneering. I must say I was impressed, you hauled *** dude. I’m guessing you didn’t keep it up very long tho. If I hadn’t been on the tail end of a five hour ride I would have raced.
Gay Guys On The Tandem Bike: I am assuming that you are gay simply because I don’t know any straight guys who would go in 50/50 on a bright yellow tandem Cannondale and then ride it regularly in spandex forgive me if I am wrong. I haven’t seen you guys in a year or so. You were my arch rivals. Holy crap you were fast. One time I kept up with you (on the downhill) for a few minutes and almost died. I swear you would slow down until I got close and then take off again. I salute you, you bright yellow bastards. Oh and good call making the one eyed guy ride in back.
People Who Rock: Yes there are some people who rock! I’m not a total *******.
Hard core road bikers: Holy crap you guys (and gals) are fast as hell, keep it up.
Mountain Unicyclers: I’ve seen you in the fells and there is only one word for you BADASS!!!!!!!!
Messengers/Anyone on a fixed gear with no brakes: You know it but I’ll say it anyway. Elite.
Trials Riders: I wish I had skills like that.
Little Kids with Big Helmets: You rock, two thumbs up!
See you on the Minuteman!!!!
I'm on the rail trail one Saturday last summer. There is a woman and man coming toward me on bikes, two a-breast. The man tells the woman that she should fall in to give me some room to ride. Her response is "but I was here first!"
Classic.
ROFL...
love the avatar, Hermit!
I have a love-hate thing with the local multi-use path. I guess I could look at it as an opportunity to do intervals - speed as fast as I can, because soon I'll have to Stop! for someone.
Yesterday I was pinging away on my bell because runner-dude up ahead was smack in the middle of the path, not responding to the racket I was trying to make. Then he veered to the left side. Uh... I have to pass him on the right? As I got closer I realized he was plugged into an ipod. I slowly passed him on the left. That's when he decided to spit!!!! He missed me, but I rode off muttering.
I really have to get over my fear of traffic...
I'll bet a cold Coke that all those folks who passed him up probably knew this wanker, or at least read his blog or whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irulan
What goes around, comes around, d00d...
I can totally feel for the guy. And I'll take the cold coke. yeah baby.
I hate it when paths are clearly marked as 'bike path only' yet people see it as a multi-use path and then give you dirty looks or won't move out of the way when they see you coming on your road bike.
And yes, I do believe you are entitled to your own lane, especially if there is a yellow line down the middle of it. Luckily everybody i've encountered always moves into a single file, and I do the same.
And wow...that guy from the Craigslist post...what an a**! Its people like him that give us all a bad name!
Haha. Yeah, no, even with the yellow line, you do not get your own lane, really. Depending on traffic, people will be passing. People will be all over the place... especially when it's a MUP (as I assume yours is with the joggers)--and by this I mean a de facto MUP, regardless of signs. Around here, there are some "bike lanes," supposedly bikes only. Motorists yell at me all the time for being on the road traveling at 20+mph. The reality is that the "bike lane" in more crowded areas is really a multi-use path. Out in the boonies, I can use it, but not in town, which is of course where most of the motor vehicle traffic is too. A true path with it's own dotted line and whatnot is still to be a bike at your own risk kind of adventure. Pedestrians will almost always take the right of way. They will be wearing iPods. They will be clueless. They will go the wrong way. I find that those who exercise the most alongside the bike commuters tend to have the biggest clue, from habit. I still make no assumptions, and I just resign myself to going maybe 15mph on a moderately crowded section of a wide 2-lane path, with frequent braking and yelling of "on your left!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Fujichants
Munich is in its own world with bike lanes. There, pedestrians know that if they're in the lane and not on the sidewalk, they WILL get run over by a bike. Plus, bikes get their own traffic signals. I have not encountered this anywhere else in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bron
Ha! 15 when it's moderately crowded? Forget about it. I'm constantly braking for oblivious people when I'm trying to go 12 mph on the hybrid. You ring the bell, they ignore you; you honk the very loud horn, they still ignore you; you holler "On your left!" at the top of your voice, and either they ignore you or they move to their left.Quote:
Originally Posted by aicabsolut
Actually, in Holland, cyclists have the right of way in every sense. They rule the road over there!
I meant as top speed ;). I get down to a crawl sometimes. I had to ride a trail for a while yesterday as the usual evening spot was flooded. I wish I had an air horn.Quote:
Originally Posted by OakLeaf
You are so right and I wish people would appreciate this and play by the rules. The numer of cyclists who still go the wrong way or blast through the stop lights (it's a red light in the shape of a bike, who do they think it's meant for??????). And then there are always the tourists who haven't learnt about the bike lanes yet.......Quote:
Originally Posted by aicabsolut
On the whole though we are very lucky here and it definately beats my commute when I lived in Manchester.
How do we develop this culture in car-driven (literally) countires....Quote:
Originally Posted by Fujichants
I wish there was an easy way!