Duck feet, knee injury and clipless pedals..help..

I have had the spd mountain bike style cleats on my road bike for a week. Only fell once, so far..;)

I haven't gone too far with them yet, went out today and rode about 12 miles. My right knee is really hurting me. My knee wasn't bothering me too much while riding before I put on the clipless. I wasn't using cages either.

My right foot's natural position is splayed out. If I put my foot straight, it turns my knee in quite a bit. My left foot really doesn't do this. I'm thinking the pedal is holding my foot in a unnatural position for me?

Another issue with that knee is that I hurt my ACL in Nov. I didn't need surgery. It's not really 100% yet. I have to keep up on my exercises or it will bug me and feel weak.

I'm frustrated.. I really wanted to give clipless a try:(

Anyone else with duck feet or knee injures? Do you use clipless? Would a different style clipless help?

Thanks

Hopefully one of the PT ladies and/or someone with similar injuries will pipe in -- but, taking into account the fact that I don't fall into either category! -- it sounds like you would be a good candidate for pedals with lots of float, like Speedplays.

Good luck with your recovery!

ETA: it might also help to adjust your cleats differently, if they aren't already -- that is, adjust the cleat for your "normal" leg so it puts your foot in a neutral position, and adjust the cleat on your "splayed" foot such that it allows a comfortable angle. Again though, the PT folks may say that's a terrible idea that will cause other kinds of imbalances -- I just don't know.

OH! That makes me wonder -- have you had a bike fitting done by a PT? That might be really helpful...

Another thing - I've read that you should adjust (twist) the cleats under your shoes to accomodate any turning out or in, so that your foot falls into a natural position. That may not be possible if you turn out a lot, I guess, but at least on mtb cleats there's a little leeway.

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Originally Posted by liza

Hopefully one of the PT ladies and/or someone with similar injuries will pipe in -- but, taking into account the fact that I don't fall into either category! -- it sounds like you would be a good candidate for pedals with lots of float, like Speedplays.

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+1

Since I fractured my pelvis on the right side in 2005, my right foot also naturally turns out a bit (I notice it most on the treadmill, if I watch my feet). I use Speedplay X-2's on my road bike, and Speedplay Frogs on my mtb, and they work great for this condition. No knee pain. I highly recommend you consider them since SPDs just don't allow much float. If you aren't able or willing to change pedals at the moment, you might be able to adjust your cleat on your right shoe to allow for toe-out.

Good luck!

Emily

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Originally Posted by emily_in_nc

+1

Since I fractured my pelvis on the right side in 2005, my right foot also naturally turns out a bit (I notice it most on the treadmill, if I watch my feet). I use Speedplay X-2's on my road bike, and Speedplay Frogs on my mtb, and they work great for this condition. No knee pain. I highly recommend you consider them since SPDs just don't allow much float. If you aren't able or willing to change pedals at the moment, you might be able to adjust your cleat on your right shoe to allow for toe-out.

Good luck!

Emily

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Would I be able to use my present shoes (mtb style) with speedplays? I will try to adjust my cleats on the spd's first and see how it feels. Thanks for your help.

Thanks to Liza and LPH too:)

Lynn, I have this same problem and I have adjusted my cleats for toe out as much as I can without my ankles hitting the crank. I just bought some Speedplay Frogs after reading this thread earlier and hope they help me as well. I'll keep you posted and you do the same. :D

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Originally Posted by Lynn39

Would I be able to use my present shoes (mtb style) with speedplays?

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Yes, but you will need Speedplay Frogs -- they are the "mountain style" pedals for that type of shoes (recessed cleats). Other Speedplay pedals (X series, Zeros, Light action) are for road shoes and are not recessed.

Frogs are great; I suspect they'd work very well for your injury.

Emily

In addition to getting your foot aligned properly you might need wedges.

http://www.bikefit.com/

I started having knee pain last fall. I had ridden all summer, use Speedplay Pedals and have cycling orthotics.

I skied all winter without issues but my ski boot fitter had put a wedge in my ski binding. However, when I used my bike trainer (different bike) my knee hurt.

Saturday I had wedges put between my cleat and shoe. Yesterday, I rode for 45 min. without pain. My forefoot feels natural in the shoe. It's hitting flat across the shoe instead of pressure on the ball of my foot.

Also, keep in mind that when you make changes "less is more". To adjust to the change I'm keeping my ride time to 45 min., no hills and riding every other day.

I also have Chrondomalicia which could be contributing to the knee pain.

When we were looking at my bike we could see where the side of my foot was rubbing my crank arm. With the wedges only one spot hit so we put washers between the spindle and the crankarm to my foot away from the crankarm.

I believe that your knee may be hurting because there is no "float" with SPD pedals. Try a clipless pedal system that offers about 15 degrees or unlimited float. That way, your knees aren't held in a specific position, so your body rides naturally and your pain may go away.

I know you will receive excellent advice from the TE pros, but I'll chime in with my 2 cents. I have a bad knee and I use Speedplay Frogs on my road bike and mtb. The Frogs (and other Speedplay pedals) will allow a greater degree of float than many other types of SPD's and I can easily unclip with them. I also use Wellgo platform pedals with pins on my mtb and it allows me to change my foot position easily. I use the platform pedals when I exercise the dogs on my mtb.

Thank you all for your help. Sounds like speedplays are the way to go:)

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Originally Posted by F8th637

Lynn, I have this same problem and I have adjusted my cleats for toe out as much as I can without my ankles hitting the crank. I just bought some Speedplay Frogs after reading this thread earlier and hope they help me as well. I'll keep you posted and you do the same. :D

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F8th637, please let me know how they work out for you. I'm going shopping! My LBS will probably groan when I walk in. I'll let you know how it goes.

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Originally Posted by Lynn39

Thank you all for your help. Sounds like speedplays are the way to go:)





F8th637, please let me know how they work out for you. I'm going shopping! My LBS will probably groan when I walk in. I'll let you know how it goes.

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Mine come tomorrow! Good luck!

+ another 1, for Speedplay Frogs.

I found out a couple of years ago--at the tender age of 53--that my kneecaps point ever so slightly outward, my left a little more than my right, and that was causing me to have pain in my left knee when riding with clipless pedals. I switched to Frogs, threw a Cho-Pat strap on the left knee, and I'm golden. The strap helps, but I couldn't use clipless pedals if it weren't for the generous float allowed by the Frog pedals.

Speedplay Frogs!!!! :D:p:D

Hi, you could have a look at these pedals. http://www.flexiped.no Go to products then to Pedals... hope this helps.

I have the wedges from Bike Fit too. I can't praise them highly enough. I also have feet that point out. Going clipless, my knees went way in. With time, my right foot started killing me.

The wedges fixed all of that.

Utterly amazing.

My two cents,

I have had my ACL reconstructed twice. I'm super protective of my knee and had my cleats adjusted so that I was absolutely not in a position that would stress it. I have no medial or lateral collateral ligaments on that knee so I have to be very conscious of my position. i'm not sure what kind of cleats I have but I do know that I wear sixsixone shoes. I do have duck feet but more than the clipless system, my bike fit hurt me. When I was fit for my bike, the ideal position for me made me knee flex too much at the top of the stroke and put way too much force on my knee cap and knee joint. so I had to have them help me find a position that afforded a little less flexion. you might want to check that. Too much flexion at the top of the pedal stroke and then pushing down puts a lot of pressure on your knee and will stress that joint...especially without an ACL. Good luck.
Gray

I'm going to have to go against the grain here and say that you should talk to your knee doc before putting speedplays on your bike. Speedplay Frogs actually caused knee problems for me (different problems than the ones I already had), because my knee needed stability rather than float. It took me months to get over the issues caused by only 20 miles on the Frogs. What resolved my issues was fine-tuning the adjustment of my cleats on pedals with only a little bit of free float.

I'm not saying Frogs aren't the way to go, I'm just recommending getting a professional opinion from someone that knows your knees. And if you can fix things without investing in another set of pedals, that's good too.

Also, if your foot turns out alot, you may run into issues where your heel hits the bike's chainstay. There is a product called "knee savers" which is a pedal spindle extender that threads onto the pedal and then into the crankarm. It basically moves the pedal away from the midline to give your heel more room. They work with any pedals that have pedal flats (they don't work with Crank Brothers or other pedals that attach via an allen key). You should be able to find them by querying Google.

My left foot turns out a bit and I ride SPDs on both bikes. I just adjusted my cleat a bit.