Hello,
I just noticed this note on the BBC web site:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/te...00/7340963.stm
I hope it gets commercialized!
-pll
PS: I found a YouTube video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=aWhcyLA-a_g
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Hello,
I just noticed this note on the BBC web site:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/te...00/7340963.stm
I hope it gets commercialized!
-pll
PS: I found a YouTube video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=aWhcyLA-a_g
Ooooh! I like it!
THAT is cool.
Ooooh, that is cool. I was explaining to a coworker why we had a dicey encounter. I'm riding to work, in the lane and she steps off the curb (jaywalking of course) towards me. We made eye contact, I thought she was waiting .... she didn't.
So I had to do a little whoop dee doo around her.
When I got inside and calmed down she said "don't pedestrians have the right of way?" "well yes you do but #1 I thought you were waiting and #2 I am IN traffic and I have no brake lights. Have you considered what happens to me if I stop?"
I think I saw a light go off over her head. Till this is available at my LBS I need a mirror :rolleyes:
I hope they get marketed soon. I think i'd like two!
and one for each of my sons.. i guess that's 4, huh
What a great idea! This has ALL kinds of possibilities, and would be very simple to do (I'm an electrical engineer by education) .... Lots and lots of possibilities.
A simple accelerometer arrangement could be used on a bike tail light too.......
hmmmmm I'm thinking.......thinking..... thinking...... :cool:
Cyn
Wow, that rocks! DH and I would totally buy one. I wonder if we should alert some of the companies that make cycling apparel that there is a market for this??
I'm going to start working on it
Its one of those "Duh!" things....... and its so simple!
I think that as far as a taillight goes, I should be able to put the accelerometer and the meager amount of electronics to support it, inside a standard blinkie housing - Could use bicolor LED's too, that would go from yellow, for normal riding (as long as you have a back red reflector, you meet the law for a rear red light - so what would happen is when you are either accelerating or coasting, your blinkie would be amber, and when you decelerate, it changes color to red... easy peasy.
whatcha think?
Cyn
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLC1968
Sounds great, Cyn! Let me know when you have it worked out, okay? I'll take a couple of those.
Yeah, I'm thinking this could save lives, and as more and more people dump their stinky car bubbles, the market should expand.Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtiger
I did a quick patent search, and it looks like its in the clear, but, that was only a quick search. I found several mfgr's for accelerometers - the thing is that this doesn't require fancy linear output, or high accuracy - If it sensed a deceleration of say 1-2 G or more and then switched, that would be as accurate as it needs to be!! Nothing at all fancy - I want to use solid state so that its rugged. ~ If I come up with something, I could get the gals who might be interested to be "beta testers" on T.E. to help test them out with me. I have no idea yet what it would cost, but I don't think a whole lot.
Does the idea of using bi-color (amber that turns to red, when decelerating and stopping) LED's sound like it would alert drivers that the cyclist is stopping??
My wheels are definitely turning, :D
BTW, I didn't do the preliminary patent search cause I'm a money grubber, but rather to keep my fanny out of the jaws of the attorney's if it were to turn out to be a viable concept. ~ Wouldn't it be cool if we each put our expertise into projects that could make a difference? .....And maybe show the rest of the world, that even though their is a pack of loonies, brigands, thieves and maroons in Washington D.C., that Americans still have it (Particularly gals!) ;)
Cyn
Cyn,Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarRiderGrrl
I think bi-color would be great (I think it is awesome you are thinking about this). I wonder if amber/red is noticeable enough in a small light for car drivers who are not really looking.
-pll
Sign me up as a beta tester! I ride in traffic every day (in Washington, DC, home of the "loonies and maroons") and would love to see if this would improve my interactions with cars. Amber to red sounds good, but not critical in my book.
And when it's ready to buy, I'll be in line for that, too.
I think you're onto something.
Would there be a way to make the brake lights work like they do on cars? Moderate red for accelerating/coasting, BRIGHT red for braking? Seems like drivers are already programmed to understand that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jocelynlf
Hey hi,
I've been hot and heavy on this all weekend. we have some world class crummy weather right now in the North West :-( blech
I have to tell you, I think this could really be big.... both in saving lives, and financially. I have gone through several different iterations on paper, with varying complexity, from extreme simplicity, to a full scrolling display.... -
Looking at this as a block diagram, we have:
a) A power source
b) Sensors - these could be:
1) Motion - generally an accelerometer
2) Magnetic - This could potentially be some sort of arrangement of an encapsulated magnetic switch, like that used for burglar alarm window sensors. This would require a mechanical arrangement to the brakes, probably to the rear, where engaging the brakes would close the switch, by bringing the magnet and the switch together
3) TBD, I'm open to ideas.
c) Display
This is where it really opens up. Lets start with the simple:
1) The most simple: This would use an existing blinkie - The bike would have two blinkies - the normal one and the STOP one. They would be set to disparate blink modes - So that the drivers brain would sense the difference.
2) Second Most Simple: Make an LED matrix with the word STOP that would flash
3) More Complex: Scrolling LED matrix - Again the problem here is the size, and the LED intensity - This would be made with high intensity red LED's
4) Most Complex: This now requires either a three axis accelerometer, or else three discrete single axis - numerous issues to resolve on this, but the display would present either a STOP message in red, or signal a left or right turn arrow - Problems include: Ensuring that a turn is being made only when a turn is being made - If this was done by a change of axis on the accelerometer - there would be no warning to the driver, until you initiate the turn. So..... this gets a little sticky. Again, size becomes an issue.
I like engineering with the KISS principle... so lets go back and look at option 1 - using an existing blinkie...... this requires no more than another blinkie, and detection to switch it on when you decelerate/stop.
The electronically simplest sensor, is simply a magnetic switch, activated by the brakes. This requires some means of mounting the magnet piece and the switch piece to the brake activation, probably at the rear brake. Although electrically the simplest, this is the most complex, mechanically - trust me, you do not want to see me with a screwdriver! :eek:
The simplest mechanical, but more complex electronically involves the use of an accelerometer - which is just a transducer, that changes physical motion into an electrical signal - The very simplest would be a mercury capsule switch - which used to be a dime a dozen, but are now rare as they contain mercury. It has problems anyway, due to having to set it so that it triggers only on a stop, and not on inclination.
So lets look at a low cost accelerometer - Radio Shack has one for 32 bucks that I may play with - that means in quantity, probably 5 bucks a piece - but not sure of that yet. Its just a starting point. The accelerometer would preferably be housed inside the blinkie case - but more than likely it would go under the saddle, with a connector on the blinkiie.
Again, this requires a separate blinkie to signal STOP. But I don't think that is a huge issue.
Another possibility, would be a single blinkie, but stopping changed its blink mode...........
I think for the first round, KISS is best.
Dimming the LED's fro cruising is definitely possible, but changing the blink mode may be more effective, primarily because we are working with far less surface area for the display, with a bike lighting system ~ If the driver saw it go from one blinkie pattern to another, I think that would catch their eye, and let them know that something is going on. ~ Again, they aren't as programmed to a change of pattern, but I think they would perhaps put 2 and 2 together.
So, in summary, for the first attempt, phase I, a separate blinkie, that switches on when stopping or decelerating. Phase II - would be an integrated blinkie, that changes mode, when stopping........ Phase III - would be looking at some of the other more advanced display options.
Again, I suspect that as more and more people ditch 4 wheels for 2, something like this is going to become mandatory on a bike. This really excites me....... and I think it could be exceptionally lucrative, but more importanly, as I said, I think it could save lives.
I've been away from Lucent Technologies for so long now, that they can't grab a patent from me :) And if there are other gals in the group who would be interested in taking this further, either with engineering, business or legal expertise, I'm willing to develop a consortium. (No boys allowed ;) LOL )
How do we get this out to the group, without totally spilling he beans and having some big shots steal the idea's??
It's snowing again!!!!!!! Can this possibly be late April??????? :confused:
Cyn
I think all your ideas sound really good, but one of the things I liked best about the jacket is the height of the lights. I often ride with stuff on a rear rack, and with my short legs, that means the back of my saddle is obscured. A light on the back of the rack is too low in height to be effective in traffic. The jacket's advantage was that it was on the persons body... Of course, this won't work with a back pack, so I guess all designs have some downfalls. Perhaps on the back of a helmet? Then long hair or a helmet cover could be an issue, I guess...
I don't know...just thinking out loud here....;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLC1968
Yup,
the thing with engineering is that everything is a trade-off. Simplicity vs. functionality, one thing, for another. The jacket idea is a good one, except that its going to be illogical for warmer weather, power consumption, is an issue, etc. Making a blinkie into a stop light is also a tradeoff - Not as visible as the jacket idea, accelerometers tend to be linear devices, etc. If you make a jacket with integrated lighting, chances are sales and use would be fairly limited, due to cost to manufacture, not practical when its warm out, etc. A blinkie stop light - simpl(er) to engineer, much lower cost, low power consumption, large sales base. The downside - again, less visible and eye catching, finding the right accelerometer - cost/functionality, sensitivity, complexity of external circuitry/logic. Every LED that you light, requires 1.2 volts, and in parallel, the current sums - I would imagine at the very least, the jacket shown, pulls a couple of amps from a battery. I think its a great idea, but again, even if you are using an exotic battery (expensive) that has a high power to weight ratio, you are looking at something that is pretty expensive. I think at this point, and as their is really no practical bike stop light on the market, KISS may be the best initial approach. Back of the helmet with a display that says STOP may be an interesting approach too, as a follow on development phase.
This is fun to noodle around on anyway :D
Cyn
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarRiderGrrl
Ha, you're preaching to the choir...I'm also an EE. ;)
I just think that marketability is as important as practicality if that's the eventual plan. But yeah, definitely start simple and see how it goes. Battery life and weight are also going to be big factors in appeal to the most cyclists...again, often a trade off.
Another thought to consider - has anyone done an exhaustive search on this? There may not be a patent yet, but someone could already be producing it. It would make sense to have features that other's don't have (if that's the case).
Again, just throwing ideas out there... I wish I had more time to spend on helping out!
Everything is pretty initial at this point, but doesn't seem to be anything out there - I've been out on Digi-Key looking at accelerometers - I want to try to keep the external logic down too thats needed to to drive the accelerometer..... power is the biggie on this, I think. A magnetic reed switch on the brakes is the simplest and gets rid of logic and most parts count, but then you have all of that icky mechanical mounting stuff :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by GLC1968
I agree with you on the time issue....... between riding, work, and music, I'm spread pretty thin - but I think I can squeeze in a KISS engineering project
You are helping out, just by bouncing ideas around..... and its so nice to think about real engineering, rather than computer security engineering, which pretty much has nothing to do with electrons, nor engineering :rolleyes:
Cyn