This wasn't even close. Look how far off the WRONG side of the road the car is!
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...cal&id=6009151
He should be in jail, not on paid leave!
My heart goes out to the families involved.
Brenda
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This wasn't even close. Look how far off the WRONG side of the road the car is!
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...cal&id=6009151
He should be in jail, not on paid leave!
My heart goes out to the families involved.
Brenda
That's a bit harsh don't you think? It looks like a horrible accident, my hearts go out to all involved.
It's a bit ironic, there was a bit in our local paper about how police officers routinely go through red lights. (we have red light cameras now) A percentage of them were excused but most of the infractions were simply police not wanting to wait for the light to change.
I wouldn't be surprised if that deputy wasn't driving much too fast for the conditions.
That's terrible... It's the same accident being discussed in the thread called "Reality Check"
Most recent article says the deputy may have fallen asleep.
here's a link to an article. Matt Peterson was a member of Roaring Mouse Cycles(SF) and Kristy Gough was a pro triathlete.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...ed=rss.bayarea
http://www.roaringmousecycles.com/ga...omer-road/Matt
I'm really feeling sick. This is awful.
Ditto to what Grog said. This is terrible. My heart goes out to the family & friends of all involved, including the deputy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimitabby
DH & I were hit by an officer, who went through a red light with NO sirens, responding to a call. There was 2 inches of fresh snow on the ground and the officer said he stopped and checked the intersection before proceeding. So, please tell me how he then got to 40 mph before hitting us in the intersection?! Oh and we were driving my brand new Blazer at the time, not even 30 day old!
Yes, I wouldn't hesitate to say that this officer was traveling too fast for the conditions, also.
My hearts & prayers go out the families involved!
Bet he's awake now :o According to news he is very sad and remorseful.Quote:
Originally Posted by snapdragen
Watching NBC 11 right now, they start with a mention "they were riding where there was no bike lane :mad:" camera cuts back to show the scene with a wide marked shoulder.
He could have just as well hit a car with 3 occupants as the cyclists. Would media have implied the driver was at fault then "well, they were driving in that other lane"
He was just starting his shift. I'm not buying the fell asleep excuse. I would however put a buck on the fact that he was using his onboard computer when this happened and missed a turn in the road. I've got a brother who's a cop and he says close calls happen all the time because cops are typing with one hand and driving with the other.
Really tragic.
How horrible and tragic. My heart goes out to the cyclists families. How very sad. They didn't have a chance.
As for the officer... well, let's face it, people in cars hit cyclists all the time and everyone blames the cyclist... it's NEVER the fault of the driver in the car. AND even if it is... no one cares. "Oh well, so what... he plowed down people on bikes... they deserved it."
If he killed a family in a car, there would be serious charges brought against him. Since he hit cyclist, it's OK. *rolls her eyes*
I wish they would view people on bikes as if they were driving cars and throw the book at people who kill people on bikes.
I was at my PT this morning and coming down the stairs I saw a framed picture of Kristy Gough (one of the cyclists killed). She had been treated there and it was pic of her at Ironman winning her age group.
It's all very upsetting including the news coverage and what they say about cyclists - one report said how sometimes cyclists ride next to one another and how dangerous, even though not illegal, this is. How is that conjecture even relevant?! That road they were on has a wide shoulder to ride on - it really is one of the least dangerous roads out there. I also don't understand why they have not released the name of the deputy and why a breathalyzer test wasn't administered.
article about Kristy
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../MNE8VH1CV.DTL
I really have to hand it to you guys that cycle in the large cities. I'm not so sure I would ride my road bike anymore. Now I understand why some abandon their road bikes for the mtb and trails.
Another article.
XTri website
Well, I ride in Dallas, TX. You just do what you gotta do. We ride in a group, but as this accident shows, safety isn't always in numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by sundial
Otherwise, the only 2 bike wrecks that I have had involved mud in the road and wind. The cyclists I know who have had wrecks... went down due to other cyclists. Not cars.
So yes, the city is dangerous but we do more harm to ourselves riding around here.
I can guarantee you that the officer will have to undergo drug testing.
I feel terrible for the families of all involved.
I'm not niave enough to think that all officers are good and above reproach, but being married to one and having first hand knowledge of all they go through and put up with, I do know that most new officers are in the job because they want to do good and help people and this would be the last thing any of them would want to have to live with.
I am saddened that the media and others want to point blame at the cyclist.
It seems to most definetly be the officers fault regardless the reason, and something he will have to live with always.
These accidents, when accidents are what they truly are, are horrible for anyone involved regardless if they are an officer or just somebody's mother or father.
The "accidental" part is when a driver actually hits somebody.
The choice made to use electronics or to drive when drowsy... that's no accident. THat's done on purpose.
When we make choices that significantly increase the risk to others on our paths... we need to be held responsible for the consequences of those choices. He can't give back the lives, but I would suggest - shocking as it may be - that he shouldn't be burdened with the responsibility of driving and we shouldn't be burdened with the danger of him driving (unless, somehow, it's found that oh, a bird flew through an open window, struck him on the head and rendered him unconscoius... *that* would be an accident.)
I spent my ride today thinking about this.
Is there anyone who can honestly say they have never done something stupid or been inattentive in a car? I know I can't. I know there have been times when I've done something and thought, "Wow, I'm glad nobody else was around because that could have been ugly." I'm so thankful that I have been lucky.
What I'm going to take from this is the reminder that life is precious. I want to be more careful with what I do, not just in my car, but in general. I want to spend my time on this earth wisely. Maybe be a little nicer... a little kinder... do I really need to be so sarcastic at staff meetings? more thoughtful of others. We're all on this world together. Maybe I can do more to make it a better place.
The deputy has to live with this forever. He's only 27. If he's a decent, compassionate man, he's going to be suffering for a long time because he screwed up and he didn't get lucky and have no one around. I doubt it was in his plan for the day to have that happen.
When I have a perfect day, maybe I can rest in judgement on him.
V.
PS If it turns out that he was on drugs or alcohol, then I take back everything I just said.
Exactly. Every single word. Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica
V-
Ditto. Yup. You said it.
Well said, Veronica.
I KNOW that I have been there -- falling asleep especially, being a night worker that lives 45 minutes from where I work. I think about this all of the time.
I sincerely HOPE this was purely accident, and not some choice made that changed the fate of the day -- as it is, pure accident will be a terrible thing for this deputy to live the rest of his life with.
KSH: I agree about how people look at cyclists... I can recall one day that someone in a pickup truck rolled down the window and yelled at me, "Get off the road! You're not a F*%$#G CAR!". That is how many people feel. Never mind, there is only two inches on the pavement past the white line before you hit the ditch! But when hit, it's suddenly our fault.
Thoughts go out to everyone -- this is truly devastating to all involved.
JES
thanks, V, that's beautiful
This article gives a great bio on both the cyclists:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...ornia_deaths08
Yes, and crashes can happen anywhere. My serious bike wreck in April 2005 happened in an extremely rural area, no cars on the road at all, just two big dogs that ran out right for me. I actually feel safer in the city sometimes, as I know the chances of dogs running freely is much less, and cars sometimes don't worry me as much as dogs, due to my experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by KSH
This is very sad news indeed...
Emily
I totally agree with Veronica on this one. I really feel for the family's of the couple that were killed but I feel equally sorry for the cop. Twenty-seven, first year on the job, his life is over now too. I will keep all involved in my thoughts and prayers.
These two articles were on the front page of the local paper today ... odd, since they usually ignore anything cycling related.
Riders' deaths rattle cyclists in Bay Area
Accident a reminder to respect center stripe
As one who has made idiotic mistakes in this area, as well as many other areas, even these circumstances leave room for compassion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica
You're right SF. I personally just find those kind of choices harder to understand and forgive. Probably because I've been on the receiving end of people who made those choices already.
V.
Me, too. I'm sorry you've had that experience. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica
it is quite likely that if a car had been where the bikes were, the occupants of that vehicle would be dead too (and maybe the deputy as well!)
His life is not over. He might pay a fine (maybe $200? something really low)... and that will be it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones
You see, when a driver in a car hits and kills a cyclist, they are NOT brought up on involuntary manslaughter charges. That would only happen if he had hit and killed another person in a car.
That's where our laws really fail people.
Here are two SF Chronicle articles that made the front page this morning. The second one has stats about the decrease of accidents but increase in fatalities. It also says that accidents in rural areas or open highways tend to involve higher speeds than urban areas and speed is the highest contributing factor for fatality in a bike collision.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../MNCTVH7DF.DTL
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../MNHPVHGQB.DTL
What does money or jail time really do? I think the mental anguish he 's going to have is quite a lot of punishment. But if I ran the world... I would also make him to do community service giving speeches to groups about being more mindful of what you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by KSH
V.
I find it ironic that after noticing that he killed somebody; he said "My life is over!" not "oh those poor people, what did i do?!"
Did he? oh! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by mimitabby
I'm sending loads of butterflies down there....to the families of everyone involved, to the cyclist still in the hospital, to all the cyclists in the area, and to all the drivers in the area to help them realize that cyclists have as much right to be on the road as they do, and they should be treated with the same respect as cars are.
Hugs to all of you TE'ers in the SF Bay area,
~T~
Oy, I never thought of that. Argh! :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by KSH
Involuntary manslaughter charges are given to drivers who kills another in a vehicle. Anyone driving drunk and killing someone in the process or if it is proven that the person is driving reckless are charged with that very thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by KSH
MANSLAUGHTER, INVOLUNTARY - In order for a person to be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter the government must prove that someone was killed as a result of an act by the person;
Second, in the circumstances existing at the time, the person's act either was by its nature dangerous to human life or was done with reckless disregard for human life; and
Third, the person either knew that such conduct was a threat to the lives of others or knew of circumstances that would reasonably cause the person to foresee that such conduct might be a threat to the lives of others.
Is this true? I don't see how you can make a distinction between car/bike for the victim. (Granted we didn't specifically address this issue in crim law and I'm dating myself to say how long ago I was in law school... ;) ).Quote:
Originally Posted by KSH