Ruby Versus Madone (again?)

Well the 2008 Ruby Expert and Ruby Pro are in at the LBS so I can't wait to go down and try them out. I've also been waiting for the Trek Madone 5.1 to come in but I just called and they said Trek is only making a few so they aren't bringing any in. It's been replaced by the Trek Madone 4.7 WSD which is supposed to be more or less the same components. Anyone know anything about this bike? After talking with the Specialized guy, the Ruby sounds like a better made bike (with the Zertz inserts etc) but I like the Trek as well. Other downside is that the Madone won't be in until early April...

Well is mostly comes down to fit. My wife road a couple Specialized Ruby's but they just don't fit her nearly as well as a Madone. That said her 5.1 WSD has been on order forever and still won't be shipped until maybe April - driving us nuts. As for the 4.7, it does not replace the 5.1, but gives Trek a slightly lower price point. There are also some differences. It's an imported frame and not made in the US. It also uses Trek TCT carbon rather then the OCLV carbon used in a couple different weights for the US produced bikes. It also uses a traditional seat post, rather the the new design on the US built Madones. For the price difference, I still think the 5.1 is the way to go, but purchase should be made based first on fit.

All Specialized bikes are imported, so I don't know about better built? The zertz inserts seem like a gimmick to me. Trek also has a excellent warranty, and I love my '06 Madone.

Go with fit first, but the Madones are awesome bikes. Good Luck.

ha.. My guess is the Specialized guy will convince you his is better, and then the trek guy would do the same.
I say ride both and YOU decide.
I think they both have their own merits.

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Originally Posted by Mr. SR500

Well is mostly comes down to fit. My wife road a couple Specialized Ruby's but they just don't fit her nearly as well as a Madone. That said her 5.1 WSD has been on order forever and still won't be shipped until maybe April - driving us nuts. As for the 4.7, it does not replace the 5.1, but gives Trek a slightly lower price point. There are also some differences. It's an imported frame and not made in the US. It also uses Trek TCT carbon rather then the OCLV carbon used in a couple different weights for the US produced bikes. It also uses a traditional seat post, rather the the new design on the US built Madones. For the price difference, I still think the 5.1 is the way to go, but purchase should be made based first on fit.

All Specialized bikes are imported, so I don't know about better built? The zertz inserts seem like a gimmick to me. Trek also has a excellent warranty, and I love my '06 Madone.

Go with fit first, but the Madones are awesome bikes. Good Luck.

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Thanks MR. SR500. I knew you were still waiting so wondered if you'd heard that. I quizzed the girl on the phone and she seemed to convinced that the 4.7 and the 5.1 were virtually the same bike. I looked at the stats in the Trek site and only saw a couple of difference but I didn't know what they meant. Thanks for explaining. So I guess I have to choose between the Ruby and the Madone 4.7. Trouble with the Trek is that I can't try one out. They won't even be getting in until April and then who knows if it'll be in my size so I can see how it fits. As for the Ruby, I can only try a Comp 51" which should be close enough and then I'd have to order in a expert or pro my size. Also the Specialized guy is the only properly trained fitting guy in Kelowna (although he only just completed the course.)

HOw big is your wife? I am 5-3 with a 29" inseam.

Personally, I like the Zertz info (not that I'm a pro by any stretch of the imagination, but it makes sense to me.) Also apparently Specialized puts a whole lot more money into R&D than Trek. That being said, I really do like the Madone as well.

Ah well, keep on searching.


RM - you are so right about each saying theirs in best. I have not had that opportunity with the Trek guy yet but I have no doubt you are right.

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Originally Posted by Mr. SR500

All Specialized bikes are imported, so I don't know about better built? The zertz inserts seem like a gimmick to me.

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Most US bike manufacturers have sold their soul to the asian market, so it's rare you'll find one that's not assembled in China. As for the Zertz, it does provide a smoother ride. Hubby has Trek, I have Specialized. My bike provides a smoother ride. :D

For a similar price, you could go custom. Luna, IF, Seven...just a few.

My boyfriend bought a Madone last summer. It was before the new redesign. At that point Trek was only using two different levels of carbon -- OCLV for the Madone line and TCT (I think?), for the 5000/5200s. We test rode both, and the OCLV had a dramatically better ride. Both stiffer and damper feeling. If you are going to be spending the $$ to buy any bike in the Madone line it's worth trying the different carbons, because there can be a much bigger difference than you might expect.

I have never ridden a Ruby, so I have no advice there. We tested a bunch of bikes for him though (we're almost exactly the same size so I got to be the second opinion), and it came down to the Madone 5.2 (2007 version) and the Cervelo R3. The R3 was a really special bike and had a delicious, seductive ride, but cost two grand more for about the same component spec, and so the Madone won out as a better value and a more sensible decision for him, since he has no plans to race. We thought the Madone was a very nice combination of nice feeling carbon and quick, but not twitchy handling. He's happy with it. There are lots of nice bikes out there though (I also liked the Cannondale Six13 a lot, but he thought it was harsh and again, the Madone was just a really good value), and my advice is to ride everything you possibly can and then consult your bank account :D.

Some Treks, including carbon frames, are still made in Wisconsin. BF's Madone is US made.

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Originally Posted by sundial

Most US bike manufacturers have sold their soul to the asian market, so it's rare you'll find one that's not assembled in China. As for the Zertz, it does provide a smoother ride. Hubby has Trek, I have Specialized. My bike provides a smoother ride. :D

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I'm sure China loves to hear you say that, but most of the higher quality bike manufacturing facilities are in Taiwan and they consider themselves to be an independent country ;)

She is 5'6" with a sort of long 31" inseam. We knew the previous Madones fit her perfectly in a 51 WSD. However, for '08, Trek changed the sizes and geometry. They went to a 50 and 52 and both bikes have more rise then the previous Madone. The top tube of the 50 looks like a better fit, but the 50 would require a "tall" seat post cap, see here:

http://trekroad.typepad.com/photos/u..._height__2.gif

So we decided on the 52, although she may need to shorten the stem a hair. The bikes generally are very close, I think the tall cap is fine, but like bikes with a more or less neutral fit.

I don't know about R&D at Specialized, but would have my doubts that they put more effort in that Trek. Specialized is a importer and specs bikes to be built. I'm sure they do R&D, but are still constrained by the manufacturer building their bikes.

Trek designs and build their own high end bikes. And just looking at the major innovations in the '08 Madone would prove this out. New head tube and bearing design, massive bottom bracket, and new seat mast design. All together make it lighter with excellent handling.

As for riding an '08, there are some out there. We found one in Columbus, Ohio (about 2 hours away), so took an afternoon to go over and ride. This confirmed the size and ride. Although, I'm not real pleased a Trek Superstore in Columbus has one on the floor, and Trek still can't deliver one to our local dealer.

All that said, too many variables, so go with fit first and the rest will fall into place.

P.S. Nothing wrong with Specialized, just take everything you hear with a grain of salt, also our 5 year wants a Specialized Allez jr, very bad...

I just bought an '08 5.2 and it was made in Waterloo.

Kelownagirl,

I was in the same spot - Ruby or Madone. But the local Trek dealer in my area didn't have my size and made it very clear if they ordered one for me to try out - I would pretty much be committed to buy it since my size wasn't something they would normally carry. I didn't want to spend that much without at least riding it first.

So, enter the Ruby - I took it for a ride and fell in love. LBS guy spent lots of time with me to get the right fit and ordered a different color for me, and patiently swapped out the white handlebar tape etc etc..

I'm 5'0" with a 27" inseam and ended up on the 48 Ruby (kinda surprised, I thought for sure I would be on the 44 and so did the LBS guy when he first looked at me) Very pleased with it, smooth ride.

Like everyone else has said ride all you can and you'll know which is right for you.

Happy hunting!

Kelownagirl-
I was also in the same place you are now. My bike shop is actually both a Trek and Specialized dealer, so I was able to test ride both bikes at the same place, and my fitter know both bikes really well. I rode the Madone first. Very smooth ride, but to me it almost felt dead....like it damped out the road almost too much. Tad (my bike guy) described the Madone like a Cadillac...nice smooth ride, very safe. I had a bit of a hard time finding a Madone that would fit me really well because of the new seat clamp. I am 5'3" and wear a 30" inseam pants (don't remember my cycling inseam).

I then rode the Ruby... rode the Comp since that was the only one they had in the shop. Let's just say, it was the first bike (in my price range) that I came back in with a HUGE smile on my face! I felt like it smoothed out the road, but felt more like a race car....very responsive, when I moved and got out of the saddle it just responded to me. I went on to ride a number of other bikes (Felt, Cervelo, Lightspeed, Orbea) and just kept thinking about the Ruby. Went back to re-ride it, and it was just like I remembered...I was in love! I knew even before I went back that if I ordered the Ruby I was going to get the pro model, so Tad was a bit hesitant to send me back out on the Comp after I had ridden a bunch of other bikes (said it was like taking a knife to a gun fight). But it didn't matter.. it was the fit and the feel of the bike that I loved. I knew that if I loved the Comp that much the Pro was only going to be better. Did a bunch of fitting on the Comp to decide which size to order and get all my measurements. I am riding a 51, and it fits like a dream.

It was interesting since the shop sells both Specialized and Trek to hear what Tad thought of the two. In fact, the owner had been riding a Specialized Ruby Pro, and she had just upgraded to a new Madone (it was actually sitting next to my bike when I went to pick it up). He felt that the Ruby is a better deal for the money given the level of components and carbon that Specialized uses vs Trek, especially on their Women's bikes. Specialized is known for taking Women's specific design pretty seriously, and at least to me, I felt that this bike really responded to me better than any other bike I rode, women's specific or not.

Then again, everyone is different, and you may just LOVE the Madone. Is there anyway you can at least ride one that might be somewhat close to your size? Even if it isn't perfect or is the men's design you will at least get an idea of the ride and see if it is for you. Good luck!

E.
PS: The Ruby Pro is REALLY purdy too ;) You can see photos of mine here: http://picasaweb.google.com/ellen.mallman/NewBike

Thank you so much for taking the time to give me this much-needed feedback. It helps a LOT to hear the various opinions.

Dr. Badger - what made you decide to go with the Pro over the Expert? I can afford either one but I am thinking that I probably will not notice the improvement between the two, considering the extra $1000 cost. That being said, I don't expect I will ever buy another road bike of this caliber so I don't want to underbuy either - maybe I'll deserve the higher end components eventually? ;) It's a tough call.

I will definitely go in and check out the Madones but I hate to wait until April. I want a new bike by the time the gravel is cleaned off the road. :rolleyes: :D

Get the Ruby. It has a nice name. :)

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Originally Posted by zencentury

Get the Ruby. It has a nice name. :)

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True. But that would also be like getting the Madone because I really like the colour... :rolleyes: Actually, I lust after the 5.2 more, as dh and i call it.

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Originally Posted by kelownagirl

True. But that would also be like getting the Madone because I really like the colour... :rolleyes:

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You know, I am contemplating a new bike in late summer or fall. And, I am just p!ssed that I HATE the colors on many of the models that really are the ones I should be looking at, component-level-price-wise.

I know that it is not the most important thing on a bike, but I have spent the past few years on a frame in a color I don't love. Good bike, but not beautiful. If I am going to spend thousands on a bike that will probably be my last road bike for years and years to come, I want to love it when I look at it. But, I am furious at the color schemes this year!!! :mad:

You can always get it repainted. :D

V.

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Originally Posted by Veronica

You can always get it repainted. :D
V.

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I've been thinking about it! Actually, I've been wondering if I shouldn't just get new wheels, maybe seatpost and bars, and cranks or something, get it painted, and call it good!

(Except...I really, really do want 2 bikes...this time of year, I SOOOoooo remember why I want a rain bike, and one for the outside vs. one on the trainer...)

OK...sorry for hijack...back to the Ruby/Madone issue!

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Originally Posted by kelownagirl

Dr. Badger - what made you decide to go with the Pro over the Expert? I can afford either one but I am thinking that I probably will not notice the improvement between the two, considering the extra $1000 cost. That being said, I don't expect I will ever buy another road bike of this caliber so I don't want to underbuy either - maybe I'll deserve the higher end components eventually? ;) It's a tough call.

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Kelownagirl-
I could notice the difference between the Ultegra and Dura Ace components...the Dura Ace is really smooth and shifts faster. The Pro also comes with much nicer wheels, carbon handlebars, better brakes and shifters, and a carbon crankset. From what I read the wheels are really a lot better, and that can make a huge difference in a bike.

Like you, I had the $$ to spend, it wasn't at the top of my price limit that I had given myself, and I figured I would buy the best bike I could get. I too figured this was the big bike buy for many years (I say that now, we will see :rolleyes: )

Good luck! It is always a hard decision!

Hey DrB, at your age, you will probably buy many more bikes. However, I'll be 48 in another month and this will likely be my last road bike.

Good to know you notice a difference with the dura-ace. I wish I could actually ride the pro and expert. They only have a comp close to my size.

I also was only able to ride the Comp in the Ruby, but I rode a number of other bikes that had full ultegra and some dura ace, so you could always do that... just to get a feel for what the shifting feels like.

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Originally Posted by kelownagirl

Hey DrB, at your age, you will probably buy many more bikes. However, I'll be 48 in another month and this will likely be my last road bike.

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Whoa...at 48, I hope that isn't necessarily your last bike!:eek:

Maybe not my last bike, I can't see myself buying a more aggressive racing bike after this. But you're right. Who knows! Maybe my next bike will be a tri bike. :p:D

I still say, especially if it's your last bike, go custom.

I have no clue how to go custom. Where do you go? A regular lbs?

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Originally Posted by kelownagirl

I have no clue how to go custom. Where do you go? A regular lbs?

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I would start checking around on websites such as Waterford, Luna, Seven, Independent Fabrication, Rivendell, Vanilla (2 year wait, however), Kogswell...I'm sure other TErs will also have some suggestions.

You may have an LBS that you can work through, or you may deal directly with the company.

I can only tell you that my experience with a custom bike is fabulous. I've ridden alot of bikes in my day, and it's amazing to have one that fits perfectly. If you can, why wouldn't you?

KG -The LBS is your best bet. They would know where most of the local frame builders are located and even have a few recommendations to their favorites. Even if you have to travel a bit IMO it better to work directly with the builder as they can get a more accurate fit and see you on your current set-up. Even if there aren't any builders in the area, many LBS's are an authorized dealer for custom frames of a handful of builders. It usuallly means that they have been trained by the manufacturer to their fit standards or are at least familiar with the frame-buildier's fit guidelines(Is it just me or does every place do theirs just a wee bit differently?:confused::rolleyes:) In that case, the LBS should offer to do all the tweaking that come with the purchase of a new bike and even change out parts(different size crank, longer stem, etc.) if need be. But definitely ask what support the LBS offers if you go that route.

I just gotta jump in and back Tulip up on the custom....I knew I should go custom and I put it off for more than a year. Now that I have possession of the bike and can feel what a good fit feels like, I kick myself that i didn't have it for last summer.

Check with your local bike shops to see if they have a relationship with a custom builder. I cheated and happen to live within 20 minutes of a good, custom steel frame builder. I visited them, had the fitting done there and had a LBS do the build. I know that there is another thread by Lisa where she's working directly with Luna.

Still, I really think there is something to the in-person fitting. After taking the measurements, the fitter plugged them into the computer and set up the machine based on its recommendations. After I rode for a while (it felt good), he tweaked a bit (it felt better), and then he tweaked again (and, amazingly, it was even better). Then they built me a frame that exactly matched it.

In the end, I spent a little bit more than if I had bought a high-end road and it weighs *maybe* a pound or two more, but it has exactly what I want for components and it fits me with all my foibles.

Also try looking at Serrota's website. I looked at them for a while--devoted following.

I might be a little suspect of your LBS, if they are pushing what they have on the floor over what you seem to be leaning toward. So it you are thinking of custom, you might want to find a better LBS.

That said I'm not sure how close you are to Portland, but they just hosted the hand built bike show. Looked like many local builders were present. I think I would ask around for a great LBS that specializes in custom bikes. It might even be worth taking a long weekend trip to Portland to check them out.

I'm still sold on the Madone. If I ever go custom, I would likely go TI. There are more builders doing carbon, but if you really want a carbon bike, I still think Trek might be the way to go.

Good Luck and have fun with the process.

[QUOTE=kelownagirl;287274]

HOw big is your wife? I am 5-3 with a 29" inseam. QUOTE]

I am VERY short and my bike shop guy (who is WONDERFUL) was trying hard to get me into 700c wheels AND carbon. We tried the smallest Madone, because of the slopping top tube and WDS design. It came real close in fit, but my legs/inseam just tooooo short. Trek does a great job fitting small women. I tried a 44 Ruby--again 700c wheels. The upper body fit/reach was ok, but not quite right. I was still sold on Trek bikes. Believe it nor not I was fit for a Lemond Zurich, 700c wheels (yippee), carbon and really a nice ride. (diff geometry that an Trek, but alas still in the "family".) Not a bike many folks think about or ride, but easier to get hands on. Madone delivery takes forever. This small size Lemond came in less than a week. Price was good for the all components. Fit was perfecto!
The key is riding before you ride, not a luxury always for us small gals!

Good luck on whatever your decision is.

Kay

How long does it take to get a custom bike? I want my new bike by April.

Depends--call around to framebuilders (but that's a short timeframe).

Roark is a builder in my region, I believe they have about a 6 week lead time, but you may need to contact them directly. They also sell direct, and while not a nice as having a knowledgeable dealer fit you, I believe they are more then capable of giving you the bike you want.

http://www.roarkcycle.com/default.asp

It took R&E 3 1/2 weeks to complete my Rodriguez. It was supposed to be 3 weeks but my bike's paint job was delayed because they had to finish some exhibition frames for the NAHBS last year. Like, who ever heard of that?:rolleyes: Pattooie!:p

FYI, I think it had been a slow couple of months for them when I ordered my bike, so the turn around time may not be typical for them. It seems anywhere from 3 to 6 months is more the norm for most of the frame-builders around here. Of course, if you want one of the mega superstar frame builders to build your bike then you'll have to wait two to six years, like Sacha White(5 yr wait list. <sigh>:rolleyes:).