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http://www.insurancejournal.com/news...1/26/85243.htm
Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere. I looked in some other categories and couldn't find it mentioned.
In a nutshell, RAGBRAI has been banned from using the roads in one of Iowa's counties because someone died on the event and the county was sued. The county paid out.... and banned the ride. Now other Iowa counties want to do the same thing.
This sets a very bad precedent for rides across the country. It won't stop at RAGBRAI.
Susan
Oh no! That's certainly not good news for large (or small) rides. I wonder what'll happen. :confused:
I'm not surprised.
One of my favorite rides in SoCal was the Guacamole Grande. It took place in Fallbrook (near San Diego) and was so well supported and fun. After I moved to WA, I was looking for registration for the ride thinking it'd be fun to go ride again. I couldn't find anything current. I ended up e-mailing the guy who put it on and got a nice response. Basically someone had been hit by a car and died. The family was suing everybody they could and named this guy in the lawsuit. He said that the ride was a labor of love and he really didn't make much money from it. He couldn't afford to defend himself and continue the ride plus he was scared of it happening again. He said he was truly heartbroken that it happened (the incident...am unsure of the specifics) and was amazed how many people wanted money from it.
It's scary how opportunistic people are. There is risk with most activities and if a driver erred, go after the driver. If it's just one of those things (or a combination of fault), let it go.
This is a bad, bad precident.
I have to wonder... if drivers were properly punished for manslaughter, would the victim's families feel so litigious?
The correct governmental response to having been forced to pay up for someone's death would be to increase the legal punishment for negligent driving and vehicular homicide. Instead, they're taking this out on the cycling community. Blame the victim, eh?
:mad:
This raises a lot of questions in my mind. Can they actually ban it? One would think that as at its core even a large event, unless it involves closing of roads, is simply bicycles using the road, which doesn't require any special permits anywhere as far as I know. The county could choose to be extra strict about enforcing any laws that they have pertaining to bicycles, but I would expect that they could not outright ban bikes from the road on any day.
It also makes me wonder about the lawsuit, though that is a different matter all together. I think that if there was a dangerous condition caused by the county then it is perfectly reasonable that the county was sued (and in that case the acccident could have happened organized event or not, so there would be little reason to ban it). If the family simply sued the county because they had the best chance of getting money out of them...... but the article has far too little information to make a judgement about that.
I don't know about whether counties can do such a thing as "ban" the ride(s), but as an event organizer I know it's really hard to make such big events (and RAGBRAI is HUGE) without collaboration of all parties, including in this case folks responsible for the roads...
A really sad day indeed.
Event are generally required to get permits. No permits. No events. Here in Oregon, it's my understanding that several bike race venues have been lost due to counties not issuing road use permits. All it takes is for a few citizens to complain about an event's participants (poor behavior, littering, peeing on somene's trees, etc.), and the next year it suddenly gets hard to get permits.
Races are a different story - in a race you actually do close roads (even if its a rolling enclosure it is technically closing the road) and control traffic at intersections. For that you definitely need permits. In a race as long as you are in the rolling enclosure you are not strictly bound to the rules of the road - you of course need to follow the instructions of the officals, but you don't have to stop at signals or stop signs if the lead car does not.
For an organized ride, if you are not closing roads then I'm not sure why any special permits would be required. There could be reasons beyond riding on the road that I don't know about, but if the riders are expected to follow all the regular traffic laws, then they aren't technically doing anything that they wouldn't be allowed to do on any day - there's just more of them.
All concerned parties are working to find a resolution to the ban which will be a "Win/Win" for everyone.
Ragbrai is big deal for Iowa, brings a lot of tourist dollars to the state. They will work this out.
( I will continue to post as new information is available.)
From the "Iowa State Association of Counties":
"Crawford County RAGBRAI Lawsuit
Crawford County Bans RAGBRAI
On the heels of the $350,000 settlement in the lawsuit arising from a RAGBRAI fatality, Crawford County passed a resolution on Tuesday prohibiting “RAGBRAI and any event of like kind and nature” from using Crawford County secondary roads.
ISAC is advising counties to hold off on passing a similar resolution right now. This topic, including the pros and cons of such a resolution, will be fully discussed at the ISAC Fall School. Supervisors President Harlan Hansen has put it on the supervisors’ agenda for the roundtable discussion at the ISAC Fall School on Friday, November 30.
Among the items to be discussed at that time will be:
Whether counties have the authority to pass such a resolution in the first place;
Whether Iowa law recognizes the concept in the resolution of “intended” and “permissive” uses of the roadway;
Whether a resolution is even legally binding;
Whether this resolution sends the right message to the Legislature;
Whether a county could be violating the First Amendment rights of county residents by adopting such a resolution; and
Whether a resolution such as this could face a challenge as being too vague or overly broad.
You have time. The RAGBRAI route is not finalized until early 2008."
"Bicycle death prompts discussion of legislation
(posted 11/21/2007) View all News Items
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By KEN FUSON • Register Staff Writer • November 20, 2007
State lawmakers likely will be asked next year to consider legislation that would protect counties from liability lawsuits related to annual bicycling events such as RAGBRAI and BRR.
Sixteen people, representing state and county officials, bicycle clubs and event promoters met Monday in Des Moines to discuss the Crawford County Board of Supervisors' decision to ban the Register's Annual Great Bicycle Ride Across Iowa in that county.
Last month's action came after the county paid $350,000 to settle a lawsuit filed by the widow of a RAGBRAI rider who died in 2004 after hitting a crack in a Crawford County road and being thrown from his bicycle.
Crawford County officials attended Monday's meeting, which lasted more than two hours and was closed to reporters.
The group appointed a subcommittee that will draft legislation to address the concerns of counties as well as bikers, said David Vestal, general counsel for the Iowa State Association of Counties.
Vestal said he has spoken to representatives of eight to 10 other Iowa counties who are interested in enacting a ban similar to that imposed by Crawford County. The association has advised those counties to wait to see whether a solution can be reached.
"We told them if you're going to do something like Crawford County, wait and see if we can get a fix first," Vestal said.
Vestal said everyone involved at Monday's meeting wanted annual events like RAGBRAI and BRR (Bike Ride to Rippey) to continue. He said Crawford County officials said they would welcome RAGBRAI back if their liability concerns were addressed.
T.J. Juskiewicz, RAGBRAI's director, said the challenge will be to draft legislation that would ease county fears while still respecting the rights of bicyclists.
"I can see where they're coming from," he said of Crawford County officials. "They had their points to make. They wanted to make sure something like this wouldn't happen again in the future."
The issue is expected to be addressed when the county association holds its annual conference with supervisors on Nov. 30. Questions remain whether Crawford County can legally enforce a ban on bicycling events.
Reporter Ken Fuson can be reached at (515) 284-8501 or kfuson@dmreg.com"
Link to the a ride in protest of the banned ride:
http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/calendar...u&eventtype=37
I agree with you on this one. After reading the article in Bicycling magazine, Not enough penalties are being placed on the ones at fault. JennQuote:
Originally Posted by Dianyla
The article posted above makes it clear that it was a problem with the road surface, so I can understand why the family went after the county. I'm not sure why the county thinks that shutting down the bike ride will end their liablility. Sure, if fewer riders ride their roads the likelyhood of an accident may decrease, but I think they need to view it differently. If any person, on an orgainized ride or not is injured because they haven't taken proper care of their roads, then they are still open to being sued over it - and should also view it in terms of a person's life too! Rather than blame the organization that puts more bicycles on their roads to find the flaws, they should be more dillegent about fixing them (and you would think if they can prove that they are being dillegent about keeping their roads safe they may be less liable too, even if someone is hurt). Their position at the moment says to me that they care much more about reducing their risks than reducing the risks to their road users.
I know this is kind of a simplified view and that taking care of roads anywhere is a big job. Even the most dilligent crews may miss something that is hazardous, and weather can open up big holes and cracks seemingly overnight, but can we just excuse it as an impossible task or use it as an excuse to exclude some road users? Around here (which admittedly is easier because this is a city, with many more people on the roads to see things) we can report road hazards to the city via the internet and they are *very* good at fixing things promptly when they are reported. I've reported several areas that were taken care of within a week or so and others have had the same experience.
When I did big rides organized by Velo-Quebec, they would always go on the road before the bikes and be very generous with orange paint. There are LOTS of potholes and cracks and the like and they were nearly all indicated pretty neatly. They had a good technique to put warning signals ahead of time if we were to be going fast on a dowhnill, etc.
I'm not saying that RAGBRAI is not doing its job. I'm nearly sure that they do have lots of orange paint on the road, too. But maybe this should be emphasized next year... Dunno.
I have to wonder about how much responsibility should be placed on the county for poor road conditions. There are several roads that I frequent here that have VERY bad shoulders, and many riders just ride with the cars going by them at least 55 mph or more. I'm not sure whether they are city, county, state roads, but still.
I don't think it's right to just go after everyone you can in the sad event of someone's death :confused: . It happens. Blaming everyone else won't bring someone back right?
I'm not a lawyer but... so I go to this county in Iowa, form a cycling club at a local bike shop. We get together and go for a "group ride". You get the idea. Well how is the ban going to apply? or a family reunion "group ride"
And about this person getting killed on RAGBRAI ride, was he riding safely? I've been on some rides where people act pretty stupidly, like they should have won the Darwin Award hands down.
Like one of the previous posters, I'm sure they will work things out. WITHOUT banning directly. They may do so overtly with unreasonably high event fee...
Yup guacomole ride is NO-MORE!
sad (accidents do happen but you shouldn't be profitting from it). I could of sued the city of Lake Forest when I crashed but I didn't. I'm sure they would have paid out dearly. but I didn't sue. They didn't go out of their way to cause an injury. IT WAS JUST AN ACCIDENT AND I WAS JUST UNLUCKY THAT DAY!! Why ruin it all?
smilingcat
Unfortunately in ILlinois we had a related incident some years back that we're still reaping hte "benefits" of. A rider was injured because of road conditions and lost because the rider was not "an expected user of the road," so they shouldn't have had to think about safety for cyclists; it wasn't as if, the majority ruled, the road had been marked for cyclists or anything!
This created an instant and huge disincentive for ever doing *anything* to a road so that a rider could say "I'm expected here." http://chicagobikelaw.blogspot.com/search?q=boub has the details including a link to a list of known times when the case meant planners & government folks decided not to do things that might be confused as admitting bicyclists used roads.
Fortunately I *do* think the tide is shifting (I'm certainly shouldering up to it and trying to help). I'm hoping that bicycling will start to be something that even people who can afford cars do for good and valid reasons.
The amount of money RAGBRAI drags along will be hard to ignore. Even those of us on a budget spent lots for food, supplies and entertainment. Here's to hoping it's still up and running when my son's finally old enough to take the tour. :)
Am I the only one to think it ironic the money the county was made to pay might make it more difficult to fund the fixing of the road?
Welp, if RAGBRAI disbanded because "well, somebody might sue," and people did it anyway... that would definitely be the biggest Critical Mass ride ever!
There's a guy in Arkansas who wants to get a ride across Arkansas going. He gave up because the "state police wouldn't sanction it".
I thought that was a ridiculous reason....that he could do it just like the guys who started RAGBRAI did--by just getting on their bikes and riding. Everyone could have their own sag--there wouldn't be many people that first time if he didn't advertise. It would make its own mass as time went on. Just like RAGBRAI. :)
Karen
I'm so suprised that the towns in Crawford county didn't speak out against this....or perhaps they did. As mentioned before, RAGBRAI is such a huge money maker for pass through and especially overnight towns, it would seem hard for any small Iowa town to let that possibility just go away without a fight.
My dying tiny hometown STILL talks about the year they had an overnight and that was 15 or so years ago.
I know I spend a small fortune on RAGBRAI. Beer and pie are essentials!