gauging progress

First off, great forum! Read everything, but didn't see this addressed.

I'm not sure what my expectations should be. I am switching over from 13 years of hiking and climbing. I'm just starting out, did 22 miles on a trail the first day (I'm in Oregon) then 30 miles on a paved trail then 40 miles the 3rd time out. Of course, had no idea what to expect w/the shoes and pedals and fell within 30 seconds of getting on the bike the first time, royally messing p my knee (still mucked up, going back to MD shortly). I'm not particularly fast. Any idea what expectations I should have? I'm biking with a guy who's biked most of his "upright" life,. LOL. And of course, guys are kind of speed demons. And yes, like everyone else, dowhill freaks me out. (I'm riding a Red Line cyclocross, btw)

I have no idea how to gauge where I'm at in comparision to other women, and I use that to motivate myself. How fast do women usually bike on straight-aways w/no elevation? How far do women usually bike? We are better at distance, right? We did the 40 miles in about 3hrs 15 mins-3 1/2 hrs. Thanks!!

Here is how to gauge your progress. You need to answer these questions from 1 to 5 - 1=not at all and 5=absolutely. Here goes:

1. Are you having fun?
2. Do you look forward to your next ride?
3. Do you have an incurable itch to spend big money on cycling?
4. Do you bore your friends with your cycling tales?

Here is how to gauge if it's becoming an addiction

1. Do you hide your new cycling purchases?
2. Do you ride when nobody is around?
3. Do you sneak rides in the middle of the night?
4. Do you obsess about your next ride most of the time?
5. Do you miss work because of your riding?

:p :p :p

Progress is contingent on your fitness level, age, type of equipment you're riding and general ability to adapt to new exercise. It sounds like you're doing some impressive riding for a newbie, however.

It is important to develop good cycling habits in the beginning. Your muscles have memory. If you are serious about becoming a good cyclist, get some clipless pedals or toe cages. Those allow you to pull up on the pedals as well as push down. Keep your cadence high - ~80-100 rpm's. This allows your tendons & ligaments in your knees, hips & ankles to become accustomed to cycling. Your muscles will become stronger before your connective tissues become stronger. You want to avoid any nagging injury from the beginning.

You said you're riding a cyclocross bike? And it sounds like you're riding off road, is that correct? I'm a roadie, but we have some experts on this board who are off road cyclists.

off road chiming in here.... more power too you if you are trail riding on a CX bike! There are no rules other than what Dogmama posted. Speed is variable, you shouldn't use it as a guage unless you are training for racing.

My trail rides vary from 23 mph on certain climbs to 19 mph on certain descents, or more. Lots of variables. I have one local single track loop that's 12 miles that I ride in 65 minutes, another that's 8 miles that takes me two hours, it's much more techncial with really big climbs. If your guy is pushing you for speed and you arent there yet, tell him to back off or find some new riding partners.

For mountain biking, I guage progess by comfort level on the trail, speed, and how well I handle techical stuff.


Irulan

Hmmmm...I think I am using the wrong terminology? Ok, the first day, 22 miles on an unpaved trail, teeny tiny elevation gain (maybe 500 ft cumulative...is that how you speak referring to biking? I only know hiking terminology). 2nd, day 30 miles paved and 3rd day, 40 miles paved; same trail, no elevation gain at all.

And, so funny Dogmama-only 3 times out (one other basically failed ride) and already I am answering the first 4 questions with "yes". Uh oh, lol. And, boy do I want to miss work to ride today.....

No, Irulan, he is not pushing me AT ALL. I am very competetive and do stuff like hiking to keep in shape, burn calories and also to get outside and DO stuff...I hate sitting around. But I need to have a challenge...whether it's a goal or someone else to goad (sp?) me on. I just don't want to be unrealistic in my goals...already sprained the knee...but I always need to know "where I stand" and how I'm doing compared to others...something to strive for. Does this make sense at all?? I'm not competetive like a guy, it's differnent...usually with myself once I know what's tough and what's not.

So, on flat paved, using a cyclocross with wider tires, I am still progressing ok? We are planning on doing Cycle Oregon in Sept...need to be able to set myself a training plan for that, you know?

Oh, and high cadence...basically pedal fast, low resistance?
Thanks again!!!

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Originally posted by Lynne
I always need to know "where I stand" and how I'm doing compared to others

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Why do you need to know where you stand compared to others? If the "others" are 24-year-old sport racers, you won't be able to measure up to their abilities. But if the "others" are people who never work out, you would probably be doing much better than them.

Wouldn't it be more valuable to look at your own progress. After you ride for a few months, compare your abilities to where you are today. Or for shorter-term gauges, do the exact same ride a few times and see if your time improves.

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So, on flat paved, using a cyclocross with wider tires, I am still progressing ok?

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What do you mean by "still progressing ok?" That's impossible to tell after 3 days of riding!!

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We are planning on doing Cycle Oregon in Sept...need to be able to set myself a training plan for that, you know?

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What kind of ride is that (road ride? a paved trail? or mountain bike ride?) How long is the ride? And what are your goals for the ride? For a first ride, some people just want to be able to finish. Others have a particular time goal. Tell us more...

Well, of course everyone's motivation for getting out and doing things is different...*shrug*...my motivation is competetive in nature. I don't do well "competing" against myself... it's important to me to do better each time I'm out, but that won't keep me out there in the long run. Oh well...anyway....so long as I'm not embarrassing myself with how I'm doing starting out....I'm a happy camper. I'll figure it out as I meet other people on the road/trails.

Cycle Oregon...road trip....average of 65 miles on paved roads. Here's the link: http://www.cycleoregon.com/

I want to be at the point that I can do some of the longer day options and also be happy and content at night, not exhausted. I'm willing to train as hard as I need to so that I feel that comfort level. I do NOT want to be a burden or not be able to finish a day. Big thing for me!! I want to be able to enjoy a beer in the beer tent at the end of the day, you know?

And terminology...so I should state if it's a paved trail, unpaved trail or road, correct? I need a LOT more confidence on the unpaved trails, that I know from the first day out (and sorry, I did go out once on a mt bike that wasn't mine...so I've been out FOUR times, LOL...big difference, right??)

Other than competetiveness, yes, I do want to have the fitness level and confidence to get on my bike any day, any time I feel like it and bike as long and as far as my mind wants to without my body crashing on me....since I hike 10-15 miles on an average day, I think I'm looking at wanting to do longer distances comfortably. And, I'm worried about holding other people back if/when I bike with others. I know how it feels to have to hold back and wait, and it sucks.

Lynne's gonna do "Cycle Oregon...road trip....average of 65 miles on paved roads. Here's the link: [url]http://www.cycleoregon.com/"

oooh, good choice, i wanna go. i wanna go. A friend of mine's done it (in his 70's, many AIDS rides under his belt.) I've heard it's a great ride and such a good cause.

"..... I want to be able to enjoy a beer in the beer tent at the end of the day, you know?"

Now this is just me and my humble oppinion but beer can dehydrate you, up to you but I'd save the beer for the end of the ride ;-)

"....I need a LOT more confidence on the unpaved trails"

last year I trained for the AIDS ride on my mountain bike thinking it would make me stronger and the increased resistance I think gave me more stength on hills. But as soon as I had a road bike I switched to that. If you're doing cycle Oregon, get a road bike, ride it, sleep with it, eat dinner with it....

"And, I'm worried about holding other people back if/when I bike with others. I know how it feels to have to hold back and wait, and it sucks."

I think you have to ride your own ride, it's an endurance event, don't blow yourself up on a hill just to catch a draft or a particular person, if you ride safely, hydrate and stay out of the medical tent you won't hold people or be a drain on the crew. Eat before your hungry and drink before your thirsty and pee every chance you get ;-) Remember a lot of the people passing you on rides like this do not ride every mile, or take the wagon after lunch each day.

Not that there's anything wrong with that... ;-)

Other than that you should build to be able to do back to back centuries on successive days. Plenty of time by Sept. Keep us posted and ...we want pictures!;)

*drooling* back to back centuries! I think I'd really love that...that's a great goal after Cycle Oregon. What a great idea. I can't wait for my knee to heal so I can do what I want to do and not hold back...

As for the drinking..I really don't drink much...it'd likely be only a beer or two, but still enough to relax and enjoy the "spoils" of the day. Oh! And thanks for the advice on eating and drinking before I feel it. As a woman, I always try to make sure I never eat unless I am truly hungry-it will be a weird thing to reverse that life-long training.

I have to say, Friday (the 40 mile trip) was SO much fun! It sucks so much having to wait out the rest of the week...bleh!

Oh, and thanks for telling me that all the people who will be "blowing past me" won't necessarily ride the whole day...I had no idea! I WOULD have tried to keep up, too.

The guy I'm biking with (and dating) has been biking so very long that I'm sure there are so many things that don't even occur to him to tell me. That's a big reason I'm here (plus guys have a different philosophy than women, although I share some of the "guy" qualities with my competetiveness I guess).

Ok, on to read anything else I might have missed here..

Really, thanks so much to everyone responding...I am taking it all in. And might I say, I felt so much better about falling flat over my first time out when I read all the other stories...stupid truck was rolling through the stop and I was on a tiny uphill...but I learned.

;-)

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Originally posted by Lynne
[B Oh! And thanks for the advice on eating and drinking before I feel it. As a woman, I always try to make sure I never eat unless I am truly hungry-it will be a weird thing to reverse that life-long training.
[/B]

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If you are doing centuries, you need to eat before you are hungry. If you wait, you may hit the wall (aka bonk, crash).You will need to experiment with how much & when. A rule of thumb is to eat something after one hour of cycling & then every hour thereafter. It needs to be a high carb, moderate protein, low fat snack. Clif bars, power bars, etc., are often used, as well as bananas, cookies, etc. We recently had a discussion about this on another thread and everybody had their favorite food.

If you ever bonk, you'll know the reason why you need to eat. Your body won't necessarily tell you it is hungry. You'll get light headed, disoriented and extremely weak. You will not be able to pedal. A severe bonk can take a couple of days to recover from.

Again, you won't necessarily get a signal that you're hungry until it is too late. After you've been cycling for awhile, you will recognize the subtle cues. Even then, it is too late for a complete recovery. If you start to bonk at mile 50 in a century, you're going to be miserable for the next 50.

Lynne drools..."back to back centuries! I think I'd really love that...that's a great goal after Cycle Oregon."

The rule of thumb in training for the AIDS ride (similar distance to yours, 7 days, 585 miles) is you should be able to do back to back centuries *before* going on the ride....I never did that.

My training rides were mostly 30 milers with one metric centruy, the Cinderella and I'd say I did pretty well for a 48 year old gal with "if I was a horse they'd shoot me" knees.

And I'm training similarly again this year except with a road bike right from the start.

"As for the drinking..I really don't drink much...it'd likely be only a beer or two, but still enough to relax and enjoy the "spoils" of the day. Oh! And thanks for the advice on eating and drinking before I feel it. As a woman, I always try to make sure I never eat unless I am truly hungry-it will be a weird thing to reverse that life-long training. "

well, they don't allow alchohol on the Lifecycle although I'm sure many just went into town since I don't drink that was no problem

but coffee dehydrates you so I went without all week and am just now waking up 6 mo later ;-)

As for food I think you don't just train your body for a ride of this length, you train your stomach; what do you like to eat what can and can't you eat to keep going. Have fun, experiment with different energy drinks, you're an athlete, think of it as fuel. Also women's sports nutrition needs are diferent than mens, ask the nice ladies on TE!

You don't put cheap gas in a Porsche, and if you run out of gas the Porsche just stops, right? Oatmeal (the real stuff, not instant Quaker is best) for me is key, with oatmeal for breakfast I'm not hungry or tired clear to the lunch stop. Ate that every day on the ride as well as anything else in reach.

here's a good article about nutrition for women cyclists

http://www.velogirls.com/fuel.html

"I have to say, Friday (the 40 mile trip) was SO much fun! It sucks so much having to wait out the rest of the week...bleh!"

You're doing 40 mile rides at this point? You are doing fine! Do you cross train during the week?

"Oh, and thanks for telling me that all the people who will be "blowing past me" won't necessarily ride the whole day...I had no idea! I WOULD have tried to keep up, too. "

I bonked on day 3 of the Lifecycle, it was not fun. But did well the rest of the ride. But I got to talk to the others on the bus, get an idea of what happened, why they didn't complete the day. Ranged from mechanical stuff like they did not take care of their gear, never got a proper fit or first ride clipless (yikes). Most did not hydrate and or eat right and blew up trying to go fast. Take care of your body and stay out of the IV tent.

Speaking of which a lot of people take up rides of this sort with the best of intentions for the charity but without proper training or gear. You will probably like the AIDS Lifecycle ride have a mass start day 1, as your ride goes on you fall in with people who
a) get up and get going at the time you do and
b) ride your pace.
But your first day you probably all start together.

If so on the first day just stear clear of the "debris", people will be on their first day on a road bike, first time clipless, don't know how to signal etc. Just ride safe. and have fun!

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And, I'm worried about holding other people back if/when I bike with others. I know how it feels to have to hold back and wait, and it sucks.

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Wow. Hope you can change a flat really fast, and never, ever have an off day or bonk - or at the very least hope you can find more tolerant riding companions. Or ride alone so no one else can inconvenience you.

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Originally posted by jobob
Wow. Hope you can change a flat really fast, and never, ever have an off day or bonk - or at the very least hope you can find more tolerant riding companions. Or ride alone so no one else can inconvenience you.

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Some times you're going to be a "waiter" and some times you're going to be a "waitee".... Sometimes you'll be both in the same ride! If you want to do group rides, it's just part of the game. You'll have to accept that or (like jobob says) ride alone.

Ideally, I try to ride with groups where I'm mid-pack. But that doesn't always happen. I went on one ride that was WAY too fast for me. One of the fast guys was nice enough to hang back with me and pace me along. But I feel my cycle karma is balanced because I've been on other rides where I hung back with someone with a slower pace. That can actually be a lot of fun because you don't have to KILL yourself and you can enjoy the ride a little. You don't have to give your 100% effort every time you swing your leg over!

Lynne, I was poking around the Cycle Oregon website (that's on my list of rides I'd like to do someday!!) and came across this link to a Portland-based training ride series that was offered this past year:
http://www.trilevelfitness.com/performance/
Perhaps they'll be offering something similar for 2005?

Also, I recall there were some training ride series in the PNW meant for preparation for the STP (Seattle-to-Portland), which is a 200-mile ride; participants do that ride in either 1 or 2 days. Anyhow, you might come across a training ride series for the STP in the Portland area - hunt around your local club websites, or maybe the website for the Seattle-based Cascade club might point you in the right direction.

I think joining in on training rides that are set up in preparation for a specific event (such as Cycle Oregon or STP) is a great way to gain fitness and gauge your progress, even if you're not participating in that particular ride. Training ride series are generally structured such that they are progressively longer/more strenous, so that if you complete the series you'll be prepared for that particular ride (in theory :D ) Also, they tend to divvy up participants by ability level so in general you'd be in a group that is roughly equivalent in terms of speed & endurance.

hth, - Jo.

what AG says about the karma thing ;-)

On our Diablo ride i was deffinately the "waitee" and these Team Estrogen gals (and their Team Testosterone guys) were nice enough to hang back with me. Heck, I was *thrilled* just to be able to keep AG, who races *in sight* most of the time much less keep up.

Sometimes on group rides I'm sweeping, I'm almost never near the front unless everyone but me is lost.

At this point in the season I think most are doing base miles, Long Slow Distance anyway so speed is not an issue for you. If you blow your legs up now, you may regret it on the ride. Check the Velogirls link I posted on nutrition, there's more tips there including a great article called "don't chase that rabbit"or something like that, anyway it's about base miles.

Speaking of which gotta walk the dog, then off to work....

"Wow. Hope you can change a flat really fast, and never, ever have an off day or bonk - or at the very least hope you can find more tolerant riding companions. Or ride alone so no one else can inconvenience you."

No, my experience was hiking. On a climb, folks who were told they had to complete the training hikes or they would not make summit. They did less than half the training hikes, didn't complete the most difficult final training hike and went on the climb anyway. They had to stop frequently on exposed areas and it was difficult at best to stop and wait with them (very cold, you end up shivering a LOT). It was frustrating that some of us who'd worked hard for the climb were the ones freezing our buns off only because those folks were not considerate and didn't do the work for the climb.

I don't want to be that "guy" on the bike, but sounds like this is very different. Not like you have to stop and change a shoe or anything while hiking. I would hope others would just TELL me if I'm not at the level yet, but I'm not sure how it works with cycling...it would suck if EVERYONE had to wait for me only because I'm not in condition for the ride, do you understand?

Ah, I see where you're coming from.

If you join in on a club ride, generally they tell you from the outset the average speed and expected difficulty of the ride (most clubs post rides on their website and/or in the monthly newsletter, along with some kind of rating with regards to avg speed and amt of climbing).

Most clubs suggest that at the beginning you choose club rides that might (on paper) seem a little easy to you, in order to give yourself a chance to become familiar with the rating system and to lessen the possibility that you'll inadvertently join in on a ride that's over your ability at the time.

And most club ride listings include email or phone number for the ride leaders so you can ask them questions about the ride to see if it's within your ability.

On the other hand, if you're going on an impromptu ride with a bunch of friends, then hopefully they'll understand that you're a beginner and they won't try to hammer you into the ground :D

So all in all, I don't think it's the same sort of situation as you had with the mtn climbing.

Plus, seems to me you already have the sense not to be 'that guy' on a bike :cool:

ROFL Jobob - not that I mean to steal any thunder on this thread but Homer Simpson??....That was JUST too hilarious to let pass!

"Doughnuts..... auuuuggghhh" :D

You'd think with all this obsessing about junk food I'd be a blimp, but I've managed to *loose* about 7 pounds in the last 3 weeks.

How, you may ask?

Well, in honor of Jo's Midlife Crisis I thought it was high time to get braces. :p

Yep, 45 years old, teetering on the brink of menopause, I get freakin' braces. Just on my lower teeth, but it's enought to make chewing uncomfortable and eating has become tedious. Most junk food is pretty much out the window for the duration (about 12 months with any luck). I'm trying to eat properly, and making sure I take my vitamins, but I'm eating so slowly and carefully that my total intake has gone down a lot. Next time I go to my orthodontist I'll tell her she might want to consider marketing braces as a sure-fire diet plan :cool:

Straying marginally back to the topic at hand, the hardest adjustment has been getting enough to eat while I'm riding ! Ordinarily I'd pack some payday bars & bagels, but caramel and nuts are at the very top of the 'don't even think about it' list, and basically anything chewy is out the window. So it's back to bananas :p. I've actually gotten to the point where I can deal with soft bagels again, but I have to tear off tiny bits and swig lots of water so I can mush them as much as chew them (ewwww sorry). So I'm relying a lot more on the energy drinks (Cytomax) and gels like Clif Shots & Gu to make sure I get enough in me so I don't bonk.

I came precariously close to bonking on a 65 mile ride Lee & I went on last week - it was nearly dead flat but we hit a bit of headwind, and I didn't realize until nearly too late that I wasn't eating enough. So I'm packing the Cytomax and the gels now. Bleah.

Thanks for all the tips...the nutrition sections were great. I'm gonna try this strawberries and cream power bar, goo-like stuff this weekend...hehe...hope it's good! I never did like Gatoraid, but so many people use it, I guess I will try some of the new flavors. And I never thought about how hard it would be to open a bar while on a bike. And peanut butter on bagels...yum! I think I'm getting hungry....

BTW, I see a lot of women posting that they ride at least 4 days a week...how the heck do you do that, especially in the winter with the short days??? I just kind of figured that during the winter you have only two days a week to try and get in rides?

Jobob - have you tried the Luna Bars? I don't recall them as being too very chewy - and they are thinner so it might be easier for you to bite into. Congrats on your braces (I think?) btw - if its what you want you go girl!

Lynne - have you tried watering down the Gatorade? I could never really tolerate it either until my dad (distance runner) suggested watering it down 1/2-1/2 or even 1/3-2/3 (water to Gatorade ratio). I was able to tolerate it better then. Now of course I can't drink it due to the sugar. There is a sugar-free replacement drink made by Alacar (read Emer-Gen-C) called Electrolyte. You can get it in health food stores - its an electrolyte replacement drink without any sugar and just a mild lemon-lime taste that you mix with water or juice. I mix it in my water bottles and it works for me really well! That and Clif Bars.

Hi Lynne - welcome to the world of cycling.

To answer the question 'Am I fit enough?' then as Jobob suggested a few rides with you local club will soon be able to answer that question.

The world of cycling, in my experience in UK & Italy I have met some of the most wonderful people. I've been given banana's by strangers when I've looked like I was going to bonk. I've had cheers of encouragement from bystanders when doing long cycle-sportif courses in the mountains and been offered pushes from my tired clubmates when I recently tried my hand at mtb riding.

I think the phrase 'What goes round, comes round ' is a good one. It's very sensible to make sure you're physically up to a challenge before embarking but at the same time I've found people are always willing to wait or give you a helping hand.

If, on the other hand you're strong and you come across someone who's having a hard time then why not give them a shout of encouragement. I know they'll appreciate it.

PS - Never actually done a road race. My experience is in cycle-sportifs, which although timed are only actually 'raced' by a small minority of super-fit, semi pro's. The rest of us are usually happy just to cross the finish line.:p

Most group rides post the level of difficulty - the ride length, approximate speed and types of hills. AND sometimes people misjudge their preparedness. As a newbie, you may not know the route, unlike hiking.

The best thing you can do is arrive prepared. Know how to change a flat, bring extra food and enough water. Tell the leader that you are OK being dropped (e.g., left behind). If you start to get tired, turn around! As long as the leader isn't expecting you at rest stops, you'll be fine.

Riding with people who are better than you will make you stronger (or will expand your vocabulary :p ). Sometimes I like to ride with the 3% body fat, testosterone laden young lads just to see how far I can get. I always tell the leader that I expect to be dropped & it's OK.

There is no such thing as being humiliated as long as you're upright. And if you crash, make sure it's spectacular so that people will talk about it for months <joke!!>.

You guys just crack me up! Thanks for all the encouragement and advice. It sounds quite a bit different (and generally friendly) than a climbing experience can be (although don't get me wrong, there are some great hikes/climbs with nice folks, too).

I will try the gatorade/water mix, thanks for the tip. I know water just won't cut it as I get into longer and longer rides.

And yes, my flat tire changing lesson is coming up soon!! Meantime, I'm taking that same paved trail by myself tomorrow...my first solo ride and I'm planning on doing the full 40 miles. Let's just say my cell phone will be close at hand....also, there are lots of houses along the route, so we'll see how I do!

Again, this is a great forum and I'm learning tons. It's so fun to have a new sport to try and I just can't wait to do Cycle Oregon...but it's nice to have plenty of time to get ready and a site to come to to learn how not be an inconsiderate idiot on a bike ;-)

Ride your ride! that is what i always say. i am not sure what it is about our human nature that we need to compare ourselves to everyone else. fitness is relative. i am not fast compared to some of my female friends, but cripes i am in the bEST SHAPe i have ever been. the most important thing is to enjoy what you are doing. never mind everyone else. if you can't keep up with someone, who cares? of course, keep trying to improve, but don't ride for the sole purpose of trying to beat someone else's time. ride to improve your own.

a friend of mine was racing solo at a 24 hour event and he so wanted to beat another friend. but this other friend had more experience, and he kist kept following and focusing on what this other guy was doing. he ended up breaking his bike and not being able to finish his race, because he was basically not racing his own race.

my two cents (as always)

Cheery happy!

Han

Lynne, if anyone is mean to you or gets pissy with you for not being as fast as them suggest to them:

that they ride in circles around you so they don't get too far ahead;
that they ride all the way to the top, then back down to where you are, then back to the top, then back...;
to chill out and enjoy the scenery!

Couldn't agree with han-grrl more - ride your ride. Are you loving it? Then don't worry about other people. I've been riding for 4 years (over that time a mixture of cross country, road and downhill). There is always someone faster, more skilled, slower, or who falls off more than you. I've been lucky enough to ride with great people who will always wait for me if I'm slower. Recently I've found some people who I'm faster than (this is a real first!) and I don't mind waiting for them - I just do my serious training on days that I'm not riding with them.

If you really want to know where you stand in the grander scheme, enter some races (but if it's similar to how it is here, only the madcore tend to enter, so it can be a little disheartening...).

Welcome to the wonderful world of riding!