why are left turns/U-turns so hard (for me?!)

So here's me, doggedly trying to improve my rudimentary riding skills. I finally admitted to myself that I can't do u-turns AT ALL, and so have been taking my hybrid to a parking lot to keep working at them. I WAS practicing with my road bike but was getting worse instead of better - panicking at near-falls clipped in. I figure that when I was a kid on a bike I made hundreds of u-turns without thinking about it, and my plan is, when I can turn easily on the hybrid, put the little platform cheaters on the road bike - and then finally, clip in.

One thing I figured out is that u-turns are one situation where it's better to slow using the rear brakes, is that right? Leaving the front wheel to move smoothly?

And then I realized something... I can make a clockwise u-turn pretty well. Turning counterclockwise (to the left) as is more necessary - AWFUL! slow, jerky, unstable, too wide, nearly impossible. AND riding on the road I realize - same for left turns! My right turns are kinda slow but smooth and I hold my line, left turns - I start too early, skirt the other lane dangerously, and do it again no matter how hard I try! grrrr

Any ideas how/why I am making this so hard for myself? I did do my crash on a left turn, but that was 1 1/2 years ago, and I should be, and want to be, over that now and on my way to being a better cyclist.

(btw, I am a larger rider and this is my first sport at age 47, so I am just developing skills like balance and coordination and physical confidence/courage now. Better late than never!)

thanks for any help - the extremely determined LLB

Besides being slow, turn your head! I learned that I used to make horrible tight turns, then I realized I wasn't turning my head-once I started to really turn and look, all of my weight followed and my turns are now nice and tidy!!:D

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Originally Posted by latelatebloomer

One thing I figured out is that u-turns are one situation where it's better to slow using the rear brakes, is that right? Leaving the front wheel to move smoothly?

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You shouldn't be using the brakes during the turn if possible. And definitely not the front brake during the turn. Slow way down first, then turn with both wheels rotating freely.

I'm not real smooth with U-turns yet either.
Just keep doin' what you're doin' - practice!

which foot is "down" on the pedals when you do a right turn? (should be left)

which foot is "down" when you do a left turn? (should be right)

If you have a habit of putting the same foot down whether you turn left or right, it could throw you off some.

...and if you turn hard enough, it'll throw you off a LOT - like clear off the bike...

Did that once, doing a u-turn down a steep hill and caught my inside pedal on the kerb - did a perfect somersault and landed on my backpack :p

It's common for people to have a much easier time turning one direction than the other and I don't know if anyone really knows why.

ehirsch hinted at this, but: pick your eyes up. Don't look at the ground. Turn your head all the way and look at something (a tree, a road sign, whatever) that's in the direction you want to be going when you complete the turn.

Your bike will go where your eyes are looking. That's true all the time, but it's most apparent at very low and very high speed, and hardest to correct once you've made an error at extremes of speed. Look at the ground while making a U-turn, and over you'll go. At high speed, if you look straight ahead rather than through the turn, presto, you've missed the turn and you're in the guardrail or tumbling down the hill.

There's a famous (if somewhat sexist) cartoon that illustrates the caption "Your bike will go where your eyes are looking." The drawing depicts a roadside billboard picturing a buxom woman. A tire track leads up to the billboard, and a motorcyclist's head is impaled in the billboard model's cleavage, the bike still dangling from his legs.

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Originally Posted by lph

...and if you turn hard enough, it'll throw you off a LOT - like clear off the bike...

Did that once, doing a u-turn down a steep hill and caught my inside pedal on the kerb - did a perfect somersault and landed on my backpack :p

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OOOh yeah... someone was training me for racing 20 years ago when I was still riding a touring bike, long wheelbase, low bottom bracket, and they forgot to mention that little gem to me. I don't even have any recall of what happened, but from what he tells me, I stuck a pedal in the corner at 21 mph and all my forward momentum turned into launching me five feet up in the air, jackknifed front to back, turned upside down and came down on my head with sparks flying off my helmet. The next thing I remember is about half an hour later, when he was going to get his truck to take me to the ER (this was the days before cell phones).

If you remember to weight the outside pedal in higher-speed turns, that will help keep your wheels on the ground (your leg acts like a shock absorber), and that automatically keeps your inside pedal up.

Can someone explain what "weighting the outside pedal" means?
Say I am coming down a long hill, with a big right curve. I lean into my right, right pedal up. If I am leaning in, how can I weight the outside pedal at the same time?

Oakleaf has given some excellent advice... so "ditto" on what she said.

Remember that a bike steers more by balance, e.g., leaning, rather than turning the handlebars like you would the steering wheel of a car. You actually start a turn by leaning in that direction, and the bike will naturally steer that way.

Get your bike, helmet, gloves, and maybe an hour of spare time and go find a big empty parking lot. Set up a number of paper cups or maybe coke cans in a line about 20 or so yards apart so that it looks like a slalom course.

Now let's get rolling. First, let's ride a loop around the edge of the lot, getting used to holding a straight line. "Twitch" (turn very slightly) your handlebars to the left, and note that when you do this, the bike leans tot opposite direction, e.g., to the right. It works the other way around, too... if you twitch your bars to the right, the bike leans left. Remember this, 'cause it's a good way to start a turn when you really need to turn in a hurry to either dodge something or make a particularly tight corner. Try this a time or two -- in both directions -- as you circle the lot.

Now let's turn... The traction that you get from your tires depends on how much weight they're bearing. You want your weight evenly distributed on the bike's wheels, so scootch your butt back a little bit on the saddle, bend your elbows, and lower your torso a little bit toward the top tube. If you sit up while cornering you could have too much weight on the rear wheel, causing it to slip out from under you on a wet or slick road; likewise if you lean to far forward and put too much weight on the front wheel, it could do the same.

Start your turn by easing the bars in the opposite direction to lean your bike in the direction you want to go. Once you start to turn put the outside pedal down (to the bottom of the pedal stroke), raise your hips slightly off the saddle, and shift your body weight to the pedal. It should feel like you're standing on the pedal with your outside leg. This weight shifting lowers your center of gravity and makes your bike more stable in the turn, helping to weight the wheels and hold them steady in the turn. (If you lean or turn sharply with the inside pedal all the way down, it could strike the ground and at least throw you off balance, if not dumping you on the pavement. Always go into a turn with the outside pedal down and weighted like this.)

(Don't brake while you're in the turn... Feather your brakes to slow down enough to make your turn safely, release the brakes, and then make your turn. Braking, especially the front wheel, makes it want to go straight ahead, which is not want you want to do here.)

Remember what Oakleaf said -- your bike goes where you're looking -- Keep your head up, and your eyes focused on the line or direction you want to go. Imagine leading into the turn with your chin... that's where you want to go. Some folks want to point the inside knee into the turn as part of leaning into the direction you want to go; but press your outside thigh into the saddle, which pushes the top of the bike down and into the turn. At the same time, pull up a little bit on the bars with your outside hand. The bike will carve smoothly around the corner, leaning as much as it needs to, while you remain relatively upright, standing on the outside pedal.

To straighten out, relax your outside hand so you aren't pulling so much, and the bike will straighten out into the new direction.

Practice this a time or two or three until you feel comfortable, and the bike is carving smoothly thru the corners like you want it to. Now, go make a run thru your slalom course of cups/cans, passing alternately to the left and right of the cans. Repeat until you can cut smoothly thru the course.

Make each corner as shallow as the road and other traffic allows. The general rule is to approach a turn wide, cut close to the apex of the curve as straight as possible, and then exit wide. This has the effect of decreasing the angle of the turn, gives you greater stability, and lets you carry a little more speed and momentum into (and out of) the turn.

Take a little time every now and then to go "dancing with your bike" like this, learning how to balance and make the bike go where you want it to, and how far your balance will let you go before Mr. Gravity steps in too heavy-handedly...

You are not alone LLB! This is all great advice. I had the same problem, big-time, when I started mountain biking last year. Yikes - who knew that a left turn could be so much harder than a right turn, and why? I didn't get it at all, but I could never make tight left turns and always ended up in the woods b/c I didn't turn tight enough. Somehow without really even trying, left turns this year on the mtb are not significantly harder than right turns. I don't know why; I guess just doing them more helped, but it's like now I wonder what I was so jacked up about last year (fear of falling and failing can also do a real number on our skills), when it came to left turns. I still have to work pretty hard on u-turns on my road bike but am better on my mtb now.

Good luck!

Emily

omigosh, I feel SO much better! I am SO glad I asked (I felt like such a loser!) and you wimmen are fantastic. I'm sure I've looking down at the road, and pscyclepath, I have a dancing date with my bike this afternoon.:D If you lived any closer than Arkansas, I'd be knocking on your door!

Really, I was feeling so discouraged I even had a little voice telling me I should just quit.:mad: I know where to turn when I hear that voice! I'll report back soon.

Thanks a million - llb

I spent a whole lotta time this spring working on tight u-turns. When I first got my bike (last may, about a year and a half ago), I just couldn't do it at all.

One thing I found helpful when I was having trouble **thinking** that I could make a turn was to reach my knee out into the turn. This is something you still see people do, but much of what I've read lately advises against it because it decenters your weight (I took careful notice during the TDF and almost everyone DID do it, and also took careful notice at a local crit that had cat 1-4 riders (in different races of course), and maybe 30% of riders did and 70 did not...). Anyway, I find it helps initiate the turn more quickly.

As I've gotten a bit better at turning (it's still a skill I really need to work at), I find I'm using my shoulders a lot more -- not to "steer" the bike per se, at least not in the sense of "turning" the handlebar, but sort of weighting and unweighting either the inside or outside to control the line, if that makes sense (I may not be describing this clearly but it's not the same as turning the handlebars... if anyone gets what I'm trying to say perhaps they can explain it better??? :confused: ).

If you can, ride with someone that corners well and follow their exact moves. I was never very good at fast, curvy downhills, much tho' I loved them. A friend of mine was awesome at descents! So I took to following her downhill whenever I rode with her and it definitely helped my confidence and abilities. That and practice, practice, practice, especially when you start feeling that you're "getting it." Keep doing it, till it comes more naturally.

Annie

I do think there is something to this left right thing too. I have a dreadful time parallel parking on the right side of the street, and not on the left.

Maybe there's a depth perception issue or who knows what!

I can u-turn and ride in circles to the left, but I'm hopeless going to the right. I have no idea why! There's definitely something to it...

Does it corrolate with be left handed or right handed? Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by bmccasland

Does it correlate with be left handed or right handed? Just a thought.

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I was just going to say this! I've noticed that people definitely mount their bikes based on handedness: By and large, right-handers mount from the left, and left-handers mount from the right. Why should turning be any different?

PS - I continue to be an awful turner, so llb - thanks for asking. And everybody else, thanks for the useful advice.

I'm right handed but turn best to the left. To mount the bike, I stand on its left and swing the right leg over. I clip in the right foot first and clip in the left as I get underway... Trying to go against these instincts is definitely harder.

Some of the mounting left (as in your left foot stays on the ground the longest, and you swing your right leg over) comes from horse calvary days. Most soldiers were trained right handed, so your sword hangs on the left. Which means when you're mounting a horse with your sword banging around on the left, it is FAR easier to swing your right leg up and over.

(ahhh the fun trivia one learns when one's other hobby involves medieval history)

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Originally Posted by indigoiis

Can someone explain what "weighting the outside pedal" means?
Say I am coming down a long hill, with a big right curve. I lean into my right, right pedal up. If I am leaning in, how can I weight the outside pedal at the same time?

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It's "like" standing on one foot and leaning to the opposite side. If you turn right, you are standing on your left pedal and leaning to the right.

One of the cycling disciplines I enjoy most is time-trialling. The courses are usually "out and back" along a straightish piece of road. This means they almost always will involve a u-turn.

Initially I wasn't confident, but we have a kilometre of flattish straight road from our gate, so one of my regular rides is to ride this back and forth along this.

So to do a 10km ride, I have to do 9 turns... a 20 km ride (verrry boring, but I do that sometimes) involves 19 turns.

This is what has made me good and relatively quick - but definately confident doing tight u-turns.

Practice, practice, practice... thats all I can say.
It is about getting to know how you and your bike feel and realising its ok... it takes time, but you get there.

Do it slowly in a car park, get a cone or some obstacle you can bike around, and over time - hours, days or weeks - turn closer and tighter to the cone.

I seem to lose the ability to make good turns when I have to fit my turn into a specific space. If I'm out in the open, like in a big parking lot, I can do nice u-turns and tight right and left turns. But put me someplace where there's a curb or a road edge or bushes or anything else in the way, and I can't seem to turn well at all. I think practice makes perfect in this situation...at least I am hoping that will be the case for me!

And is there anyone else out there who is not flexible enough to swing a leg over the bike? I have to lean my bike towards me, bend my leg, and lift it over the top tube. I absolutely cannot swing it over the saddle. I also can't touch my toes, which kind of gives you an idea of how unflexible I am.

Sara, as I've been doing my bike "rodeo" (psyclepath, it's just not graceful enough for me to call it "dancing" yet:p) I find the same thing! I can do some very tight turns zig-zagging around the big parking lot, and when I start to do them within the parameters of the 2-lane road, sometimes I do fine, a lot of times I "clutch." What a silly headgame, eh? I reckon the only answer is tons of practice, review the basics, practice more. When I look where I WANT to go, lead with my chin, and don't brake in the turn, I do great. Then the next attempt, I might do every single thing wrong and wind up pedaling in grass.

I don't really care how many times I have to go the park and do my loopdeloops, by next spring I will execute a u-turn as smooth and easy as my racer friends do. I will, I will, I will. I don't care how many people at the park laugh at the big lady going around in circles. I know this practice is going to make me a safer rider in lots of situations and will have me positioning properly when I have more speed.

yet another reason I feel I should soon change my handle to relentless.

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Originally Posted by bmccasland

Does it corrolate with be left handed or right handed? Just a thought.

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I'd guess the answer is "some". I'm cross dominant (right eyed, left handed, right legged), and I can mount from either side. And I do! This despite a 17 degree rotation inward on my right hip. I tend to prefer mounting from a curb, just because it's easier on me if my hip is giving trouble, but if that's not an option, it'll be whatever side I'm standing on.

I haven't noticed one direction of turn or another being notably easier. I'm more ambidextrous than normal, so that might be it. Or it might be learning to ride in a cul-de-sac as a small child. All that time doing tight circles, in both directions...

(My son is an "ambidextrous freak", too, Torrilin. You should read The Carnivorous Carnival by Lemony Snicket, if you don't mind kids books.)

I was going to say, about doing u-turns...it helps to pedal out of the turn, too. Just after you've made the hook, push that outside pedal down. Something about counteracting the torque, in terms of physics, but is more easily understood when driving a car. On hairpin turns, accelerate out and it makes the turn easier.

Karen

Maybe you're like Derek Zoolander.

Zoolander: I'm not an ambi-turner. It's a problem I had since I was a baby. I can't turn left.

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

(My son is an "ambidextrous freak", too, Torrilin. You should read The Carnivorous Carnival by Lemony Snicket, if you don't mind kids books.)

I was going to say, about doing u-turns...it helps to pedal out of the turn, too. Just after you've made the hook, push that outside pedal down. Something about counteracting the torque, in terms of physics, but is more easily understood when driving a car. On hairpin turns, accelerate out and it makes the turn easier.

Karen

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I was going to say the same thing...I make lots of Uturns on my narrow street and yes...I'm better at left Uturns...but I have found that pedaling just as you're about to come out of the turn makes it easy. We have more control over the bike while we're moving faster....

I have problems with right turns; I am all over the place! I've tried to work on it this year, but it definitely is not natural. Most of it comes from my fear of descending at great speed! It seems like most of the turns on the hills I descend are right ones. I freak out, put the brakes on and end up somewhere on the other side of the road half of the time. My solution is to slow down before the turn, but i have to slow to about 15 before I feel comfortable executing the right turn correctly on a descent. I also have very poor depth perception and mixed laterality. I'm right handed, but i am left eyed and footed. I get on my bike from the left, clip in right and go. I always clip out on the left. I feel like I just can't do it on the right, even though I know I should be able to do both.

I have improved right turns on flat roads by looking ahead and keeping the outside leg really pressed down. Speed is the thing that messes me up.