Dog Chasings...Advice?

Long story short, but been recovering from some surgery stuff, but got the ok from the doc to "slowly resume" riding, meaning take it easy. Well, I was out today, trying to do just that, when out of no where comes not one, but two, big dogs :eek: ! A gym friend of mine that's a vet tech said to yell "bad dog" in a commanding voice to stun the dog with dominance. Well, apparently the dogs were not familiar with this technique, as it did not work :( . I thought for sure I was Milk Bones. Finally I out-sprinted the one that would just NOT let off! I don't own any pepper spray, but I don't think I would have had time to get it out anyways. I don't think this was the doc's idea of "taken it easy" but geez, at least I still had it in me to escape. Of course, I was screaming "bad dog" at the top of my lungs, no owners to be found. I love animals, and own a dog, but what it wrong wtih people :mad: ! Any advice on how to handle the chasing canines? Thanks! :)

before they start running (or before they get to you) get off bike hold bike between you and dog. You are no longer something fun to chase. then tell them to go home, bad dog, etc.

It's not easy to outrun a big dog.
They have a huge chase instinct, so I take away the "chase" factor. I immediately stop and get OFF my bike and swing the bike around to place it between me and the dog(s). Then I yell "NO!!! GO HOME!!!! GO HOME!!!!" in a very deep commanding voice and point away and try to look imposing. I get my pepper spray in my hand too. (i keep it bungeed to my handlebars)
So far this has worked like a charm every time for me. They stop and look ashamed and then trot away embarrassed. They wanted an exciting anonymous chase, ....they weren't figuring on dealing with a big human machine combo standing there yelling at them.

If a big dog is vicious and determined to bite you, it will whether you are stopped or riding fast. Pepper spray is a very good idea, but you need to keep it where you can grab it quickly. And don't leave it on your bike if you go into a store, etc.

I heard a rule of thumb that I thought was interesting:

long nose - fast running dog
short nose - slow running dog

So in theory you could decide whether to stop and confront a dog based on the type of dog. Many dogs you just won't beat because they run too fast, the stop and confront is probably better and getting thrown off your bike. Dog that don't run that fast you might get rid of easily....

Any confirmation of that somewhat dubious theory?

I would put a 50/50 mix of vinegar and water in a water bottle and ride by again. Aim for the eyes and let it rip - This method seems cruel to me, but it is widely used by dog handlers and folks in the jogging community. It is a case of risk vs. benefit to me - which is worse? someone (you or even a child) getting bit, stitches, possibly a dog getting put to sleep, OR stinging eyes on a dog?

One thing for sure, don't try to outrun the dog, you could end up in a pretty bad wreck. Get off. Don't give them something to chase.

Let us know how this turns out for you.....

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Originally Posted by Grog

I heard a rule of thumb that I thought was interesting:

long nose - fast running dog
short nose - slow running dog

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I'm going for the long legs = fast dog, short legs = slower dog.

I got chased by my neighbors shepard this morning. First time he has ever done that and it really scaried me. I need to remember to yell NO. I always shout Go Home. Not all dogs understand English and No is pretty universal.

I would rather try to out run Chihuahua then a shepard. I have yet to ever be chased by a Grey Hound. It usually is a lab or shepard (other then the Chihuahua).

Well, so my vet tech friend had part of the right theory about the dominant voice advice. That does make sense too about not being fun to chase if standng still.

And omg, YES, one dog was short nosed, sorta a stocky guy--he was the 2nd one neighbor dog--he let off at the "bad dog"...it was the OTHER one, a long nosed sled dog/hound dog mix looking thing that kept running...and was he FAST. By golly I did not think he would ever tire! He's is the one that came out of no where.

I had not been on that road in months, and the dog came right off a curve. I didn't hear him even bark, until I turned my head to the left, and there is was right next to my inside leg, lunging towards my calves and pedals. I was bit a couple times as a little girl, and the one I could not outrun was a German Shepard--big long nosed dog again.

The vinegar thing or other spray is good. I just need to figure out where to put it to be accessible. With the fast running guy, I had no clue as to how I would have gotten off even. He was right on top of me. Part of me wanted to get in my vehicle and drive back to the people's house to say, did you know your dog is a hazard out here lose? There are laws against that. But in the county, not city boundries, the sherrif has to witness it or something. It's terrible to enforce.

Plus, beside the dog biting me almost, or wreckig me, I would bet to say he chases cars too. A very dangerous bad habit for dogs that can get them killed. I have a lab, big dog...ahh, more long nose, but she's a so so runner, and better swimmer as what they are bred for in hunting. I don't correct her so much for barking when people come to the door, a not bad safety feature, but no barking at cars, bikes, etc. are allowed on the walk. The shelters are full of animals that were left because of ill manners, when really their owners had a bit to do wtih it as well.

Thanks for the thoughts thus far!

The vinegar/water is probably a good idea. I just use water from my bottle - so far, so good. A little Accelerade (or whatever you happen to have with you) in the eyes would probably make an impression, without doing any real harm. Stopping and letting them know you aren't taking any guff seems to work well - take away the incentive and the fun. And the dominant voice is key - "screaming "bad dog" at the top of my lungs", maybe not so much - just excites them.

It seems like the ones who really mean business sometimes don't bark - they like the element of surprise. Like the only one who ever bit me - he'd bark his head off every day when I walked by his house on my way to the ski trails - until that one day. He didn't bark because he knew he wasn't tied up that day! One minute he was standing silently by his house, and the next he was slipping up behind me to grab my calf. The ones who have really chased me on my bike have generally been very quiet. I had a Great Dane in my past who would race along in the field by the road, as hard as he could, until he'd get in front of me, and then just step into the road, to see if he could send me flying over him.:eek: Meanwhile, I was riding as hard as I could down the hill by his house, to try to stay ahead. I always had to hit the brakes.

I sure wish I knew how to handle my own chasing canine! She has never chased a bike (thanks to the invisible fence and the distance to the road), but she loves everybody, loves mountain biking with me, loves jumping on people, and has chased a couple of slow-moving cars (very scary). And she just stampedes our two cats (but I think they love it, actually). She is a long-nosed flying shepherd (50% Aussie & 50% German). I'm afraid to take her anywhere within 1/4 mile of a road, and she isn't so good on a leash before she gets a few miles in. I'm positive she'd chase a bike if she could, but for the fun of the race, not to bite anybody.

In addition to the other excellent suggestions here, you might consider an Air Zound air horn, if you can stand the fred factor. I have one on my bike now after fracturing my pelvis when two dogs ran right out at me on the road a couple of years ago. Better fred than dead (or in the hospital, having surgery to patch up a bone or several!)

Most dogs are very startled by the horn and stop running long enough for you to get the heck out of dodge if you're on the flat or going downhill.

That said, I don't hesitate to stop and use the other methods mentioned here if the dogs are in front of me or I'm climbing when I see them.

Good luck!
Emily

One (possibly useless, but here it is) thought is that most dogs just want to chase you, they really don't want to catch you. They definitely don't want to get run over by you, and they are much more agile in more directions than you are. The only time I've been bit by a dog on a bicycle is when I stopped to talk to its owner.

I deal with my neighbor's dog on my motorcycle many days. It's very different, but also starker. On the moto, I could run over the dog without major consequence to myself... but I REALLY, REALLY don't want to, so I don't. On the other hand, if I hesitate or pay too much attention to the dog on the rutted gravel driveway, I'm going to fall over and break something on the motorcycle and possibly need help picking it up. So I don't do that, either. Bottom line is, the dog gets close, but she stays out of my way. It's been instructive, and it's not nearly so scary as it was at first.

On the velo, I do the "bad dog" thing, but I don't know that it has any effect. Definitely there are biters, and that's scary... but I have a feeling they're in the minority, especially for road riders who are in territory that the dogs know belongs to other vehicles. For the most part, I don't adjust my riding to the dogs any more.

A squirt from your water bottle works just as well. Assuming you can get the range with a water bottle.

I've been chased by my fair share of dogs, particularly in the hinterlands of Oregon where I grew up. What I've realized is most dogs are chasing you just because, well, you are moving. I think the mindset of the average dog is "moving thing, chase." It's the ones that KNOW what they are going to do when they catch you that worry me.

Mostly, I've learned not to pay them any mind. If they don't lose interest after an appropriate amount of time, I'll give them a shot of water.

I go with the nice approach...

"hey there, you're a good doggie, go home now" In a nice soothing voice, or no reaction at all. it's worked so far.

Dogs really are my biggest fear while riding. First of all, I'm basically terrified of dogs, so it's hard to think straight when one is coming after me. I think it's that "fight or flight" instinct...I'm not sticking around to fight. Nope, I'm running! Or in this case, pedaling my little heart out. I know I should stop and get off the bike, but I'm too scared. And each situation is so different. Like the dog that was chasing me while I was slowly grinding up a very steep hill. I really didn't think I could get unclipped and stop before he bit me, so I rode up that hill like a mad woman while screaming bloody murder. I've had three really scary (well, really scary to me) dog encounters this season. So I do carry pepper spray, I try to be prepared and tell myself what I should do if I get chased, and I hope like hell that I luck out and the dogs stay away!

I got attacked by a dog when I was in high school. The thing honestly did jump out of a bush and take a chomp on my leg. It was coming around for a second pass when the owner caught it.

I'm still a bit spooked by dogs so my "don't pay them any mind" remark was basically saying that I keep an eye on what they are doing, but as long as they just chase, I'll keep doing what I was doing.

However, I have seen a dog get hit by a car because the dog was running across the road to chase me. I'm sure it was a very nice dog.

Sara, if you were speaking literally when you mentioned screaming, that's one of the worst things you can do. High-pitched expressions of fright like that really inflame a dog's predatory instincts. If you were engaging in hyperbole, sorry :p

Well seeing as how we have absolutely no leash laws in my rural part of the county I deal with dogs daily. I have had one scary encounter going up a hill which I was saved by a motorist cutting the dogs off.

Other that I have decided the real danger is hitting the dogs, not being bit. Most of the dogs around here come to a screeching halt once you pass their property line. I use Silver's method and tell them calmly to go home. Getting off the bike would work well if you have a chaser determined to keep running. My mom had a rottweiler that would get out, if she ran after him or from him he would just run like the wind. It was all a game. If she stood still he got bored and came home.

Now cows in the road, that is a real danger in rural Texas! :D

Yes, I think getting off takes the thrill out of it, but like posted too, I wasn't sure how to get unclipped/stop/get off, etc. without the dog chunking me/darting in front of me wrecking me. One man friend from the gym says the worst is when the go to attack the front tire. OH! I did have some nice man in a SUV run the interference for me too between stopped dogs and I. Felt like I had my own personal tour car lol! I think sometimes why the dog stops on the edge of the property line is that the "defense" of home turf has ened. The one dog just would NOT stop. I think he would ran forever...I was really starting to wonder.

I agree that I have had better luck speaking sweetly to dogs. If they are just running for the sake of the chase it seems to make them pull right up. If they are determined to bite, I don't think our tone of voice will matter.

I have had more than one dog pull up when I've said, "Hello, Doggie."

Start with a hello - acknowledge the dog.
Cuz it's usually just a game, and like the above posters have said, it ends at the property line.
If they keep chasing and barking aggressively, say a firm, low, "NO."

Carry dog treats.

A runner who passes my property daily throws dog cookies over the fence to my (fenced in) retrievers. They wait for him every day. They bark and run along the fenceline next to him. It's a game.

I personally think it's not a good idea to reward dogs with doggie treats for barking and chasing you. :confused:

We live 3 miles from a golf course. My DH collected the golf balls and always had one to throw when dogs were bothering him. He wouldn't throw AT the dog, but in front of it. It would distract the dog enough to buy him time to get down the road.
We've had a lot less dog problems as of late in town. It's when we go somewhere else. And i've gotten off my bike more than once, that method works.
I wouldn't give dogs treats for chasing bikes either. That's not a good idea.

from my dog trainer friend:

The boxer I have been working with is what I would call a short nose dog.
Boxers have the awful smashed in face. I'd put money on that Boxer nailing
even the fastest bikers.

Most but not all snub nose breeds also have the
body conformation that makes them slow and they are medium to small dogs. They can't keep up with you because they can't breath over long periods of
exertion. About the heaviest of the short nose breeds I can think of right
off the back would be the English Bulldog and tallest would be the Boxers.
Breeds like Mastiffs I don't consider short nose dogs.
So to answer your question I guess as a generalization that would be true but look out for that boxer!

That's a pretty good thought on the boxers...they are spectacular in their physique...extremely cut leg muscles, and powerful neck & jaws. Very fast runners. You ladies have me curious, and I think I found in a dog breed ID book we have that he was more of a sheep hearding dog, cross between a border collie and something else maybe. That would explain his urge to "bring me around" & the endless running ability. The eating strange treats is a natural habit for dogs--as most love to eat, but that was a training thing I read once you could try and break the dog of, as unfortunately there are people who deliberately poison dogs--such as burglers. Interesting tv show once on what theifs thought the biggest hassle...you might think a professional house alram/security system...it was a dog, none wanted to deal with them, they'd pick another house... or if they want it bad enough, they put poison in the treat to elimate the dog. I think I gotta spin back there in the vehicle to see if he chases me that way. Might be road kill by now if the people don't take care of him. I'm sure how you hold yourself in a rideable straight line with the dog lunging at ya. No more yelling for me next time...hard adreneline rush to naturally resist, geez.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lisa S.H.

I personally think it's not a good idea to reward dogs with doggie treats for barking and chasing you. :confused:

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I agree! Pavlov proved that!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lisa S.H.

I personally think it's not a good idea to reward dogs with doggie treats for barking and chasing you. :confused:

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Hopefully, you get them the biscuit before the barking and chasing starts, particularly if it is a dog you routinely see on your ride.
I know what you mean about not wanting to reward, but sometimes it's just enough of a distraction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by boy in a kilt

A squirt from your water bottle works just as well. Assuming you can get the range with a water bottle.

I've been chased by my fair share of dogs, particularly in the hinterlands of Oregon where I grew up. What I've realized is most dogs are chasing you just because, well, you are moving. I think the mindset of the average dog is "moving thing, chase." It's the ones that KNOW what they are going to do when they catch you that worry me.

Mostly, I've learned not to pay them any mind. If they don't lose interest after an appropriate amount of time, I'll give them a shot of water.

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yes a squirt from the water bottle would do the trick. i had an experience in the past when i was chased by one angry dog and squirted water on its face, however, for some strange reason it wasn't enough to squirt once, i had to do it three times and ended up having half-full water bottle :D but at least i got rid of him.

How about carrying a kid's water pistol filled with vinegar and water? Probably easer to aim than a water bottle and covers a bigger distance. You could put it in your bike jersey pocket.

OK, kind of a silly idea, but I bet it would work :) .

I live in NYC where there are very few loose dogs, and I never untill this moment thought about the dog danger on my occasional rides in the country. Good thing to be aware of for the future.

Our big dog danger here is long easy release leashes - several bad accidents caused by the biker hitting a leash they didn't see. Not good for the dog either.

Good idea, not even sure the vinegar would be necessary. Water alone will usually throw them off.

Some friends used bitter apple to train their dogs. It could be used to fill a water pistol and dogs seem to really hate it.

The problem with pepper spray is that if you are upwind when you spray the stuff, you have just pepper sprayed yourself.

I've been hit with pepper spray. (military uses it and tear gas to show us our gas masks work. So they claim). I'd rather deal with the dog.

Bitter Apple is a maybe thing for some dogs... I have known some dogs that eat that stuff like candy, go figure!

I have done the 'bad dog' thing with the bike between me and said doggy, luckily i was already dismounted. Should have seen that dog's confused little face when suddenly it's target became big bad shaky bike thing with a deep booming voice. It ran off with it's tail between it's legs!

Never been chased by a dog while mounted, but was chased by one while running the other day. I stopped running so it wouldn't chase and tried to yell but luckily the owner came out and pulled it in (and don't EVEN get me started on dogs that are not leashed or fenced when their owners aren't present....)

Check into your local laws too. Here if a dog comes off his property in a "menacing" manner and it's reported the dog will be labeled as a "potentially dangerous dog". The owner then has to relocate the dog outside the county, appeal the decision, euthanize, or pay a hefty fee to license the dog as a potentially dangerous dog. As a dog lover I do think it's harsh and there should be a warning first (unless the dog bit but he'd be in the dangerous category at that point anyhow) but it's nice to know the law exists. I have one dog (Australian Cattle Dog) that chases me on occasion and I'm sure will bite if he gets close enough. That's what he's bred to do so I don't fault the dog but I did let the owner know about the dangerous dog law.

If/when a dog situation gets up close and personal, stick your water bottle in its mouth!!! That gives them something to chew on, makes 'em feel like they've "won", and it doesn't require putting vinegar or anything nasty in a special doggie-defense-system water bottle.

I live in Iowa, close to the Wis. border and ride in both states. There are farm dogs everywhere! You can't really go on a ride without getting chased by at least one dog. I used to carry pepper spray, but I'm just not coordinated enough to feel comfortable using it. I'm always afraid I'll end up spraying ME instead of the dog. NOT a good plan. Sometimes I'll spray them with whatever is in my water bottle, and that's usually enough to at least distract them long enough to ride out of their territory. But what seems to work the best is this - "STAY!" said authoritively, firmly and calmly. Do NOT let the dog know you are afraid.
"NO," is too undefined, I think. "Stay" tells the dog exactly what you want it to do. Works almost all the time.

Annie

Excellent thoughts ladies. I actually went by my dog incident situation to get a better look, and the house is hidden in the curve corner (thus aiding in the sneak up factor) plus I could see how it got out... the people have a chain link fence, but their driveway goes thru it, with a double gate for a vehicle to go thru... it was wide open, as I assume it is a pain to shut it going in and out, thus how the dog is out. I say at my house with our dog, that the nice expensive fenced yard does absolutely no good if someone forgets to shut the gate. Yeah, I could also see me "pepper spraying myself"...maybe other squirt stuff would work, if I could get to it in time.

Just a note: the little pepper spray cannister I got on Ebay has a flip-top that you have to flip up with your thumb to reach the red spray button- there is really no way to spray it at yourself accidentally because it sort of has to aim away from you to get your finger on the red button. I keep it bungee'd upright, right on my headtube where I can grab it quickly.

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Originally Posted by Lisa S.H.

Just a note: the little pepper spray cannister I got on Ebay has a flip-top that you have to flip up with your thumb to reach the red spray button- there is really no way to spray it at yourself accidentally because it sort of has to aim away from you to get your finger on the red button. I keep it bungee'd upright, right on my headtube where I can grab it quickly.

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Have you ever had an occasion to use it, Lisa? And how well did it work, if you did?

Annie

as a trainer and student of dog behavior...I would suggest:

Directly confronting a dog who is genuinely aggressive can be risky and
unless you feel pretty sure that you're able to "own the space" with a calm, and certain "knock it off" it might be a better idea to--as most of you already know-- get off, keep the bike between you, stay very calm, keep your SIDE to the dog, fake a yawn and move away slowly.

In other words, send calming signals and refuse to play chase me, or who can yell the loudest.

You guys are right about the chase...in 90% of the cases, nothing to chase, game's over.

And better to learn to read dog body language than rely on nose length...

elk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grog

I heard a rule of thumb that I thought was interesting:

long nose - fast running dog
short nose - slow running dog

So in theory you could decide whether to stop and confront a dog based on the type of dog. Many dogs you just won't beat because they run too fast, the stop and confront is probably better and getting thrown off your bike. Dog that don't run that fast you might get rid of easily....

Any confirmation of that somewhat dubious theory?

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I don't know if this is true, Grog, but the theory doeas make sense to me...

Short-nosed dogs (I'm thinking the shortest - pugs, bull dogs and so on) often have breathing problems, and the shorter the nose, I imagine less air is breathed in/out and that the nose is less efficient in getting oxygen in and CO2 out.

Long nosed dogs are made to run - greyhounds, some hounds, huskies, malamutes...

I think a combination of long nose and long legs would be the hardest to outrun...

also short nose --technical term: brachycephalic-- goes with muscular stocky build....more inclined to grab and hold than chase.

an interesting side note :fyi.....the more wolflike the head and face, the more "mature" and predatory the dog...Border collies are using predator technique to herd sheep.... Hunting dogs who actually kill the game as opposed to finding and retrieving it...like sighthounds, whippets, Salukis, greyhounds have very long jaws, as do most terriers. Chase. But this doesn't mean they are the most likely to inflict alot of damage, although they could knock you down.


The more infantilized (sp?) the head shape (think labs/ goldens) IOW, the more puppy like the head stays (blocky/drop eared) the more likely you'll get mouthy behaviors (playful, like to carry things...retrieve).

But a dog is a dog, and at one point more dog bites were inflicted by cocker spaniels than any other breed.

Don't mean to sound like an old Know it all...but breed history and psychology is my subject...:o

A GREAT book on dog body language and communication, also a great read, is The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell. Even if you just pick it up and look at the pictures, you'll learn a lot.

I LOVE Patricia McConnell (Calling all Pets on NPR).

Some cocker spaniels are the devil's spawn. lol.

Karen