Roadwork: Trek x or Trek y??

Am I ever glad to find this forum!

I recently decided to do some roadwork with my collie to help her stay in shape....Naturally I also realized it would be fabulous for MY shape.:D
I am in my late 40s and just starting to get back into shape; eating really well, lost 20 lbs and am walking with my girl.

But first I have to recover my "bike legs"and train her accordingly.

I spent several hours test driving bikes @ my LBS with the idea of getting a "low rider" flat foot, pedal forward bike or cruiser...I went home with a Trek Pure w/ 7 speeds, thinking that was way more gears than I needed..:eek:

That evening my DH and I went out for a ride (he has a Trek 7000) and I COULD NOT get that bike up the hill...while he just sailed up.

First night home and I hit the limitations of the bike and my abilities (at this point) My neighborhood and most of the local paths are hilly...and I felt daunted. I went back to the shop this morning and brought home MY own 21 speed Trek 7000 and have given myself a few days to decide which bike to keep...

Here's my dilemmma.
The Pure is really easy on my anatomy...put me in a very comfortable rocked back position. And I have had problems with vulvar pain. PLus I think it would be well suited to cruising along beside a trotting dog. As long as we stay on flat terrain.

The 7000 feels way more versatile and is it just begging me to really get riding more than just with my dog, The 21 gears make the inclines much more managable....and its fun! BUT!
the seat, after only a test drive, was putting pressure where I don't want it....we spent some time adjusting the bike, but I am pretty sensitive and after reading your saddle sagas, I wonder if it is even possible to get a saddle that won't send me spiraling back into that awful cycle of pain.
And, because it is not pedal forward, and I'm up higher off the ground it might be a more of a challenge to get it right with my collie. (I'm going to use a leash attachment for the bike) I could fall over easier; its harder to reach her etc.

I would love some others' points of views on how to think about this....and if you think I could make the 7000 work..especially where the saddle is concerned. ( how do you measure yourself for a new seat...to know here to start finding a comfortable one...)

oh thank you!!!
elk

Elk - Can't provide advice about the bike, however, I would strongly discourage you from riding with your dog attached by a leash to your bike. I've seen people try to do this and it's not safe, particularly on a shared trail. Most importantly, I always feel sorry for the dog, who struggles to keep up with its owner. It's dangerous, also, for anyone else who is either riding their bikes or are on foot. You can never predict if a dog will take off after something, pulling you down, run into someone else (causing another cyclist to wipe out, for example), etc.

Conversely, a guy at work mountain bikes in the woods and his dog comes w/him. The dog is not leashed, however, so the dog is able to take breaks and go at his own pace.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Velobambina

Elk - Can't provide advice about the bike, however, I would strongly discourage you from riding with your dog attached by a leash to your bike. I've seen people try to do this and it's not safe, particularly on a shared trail. Most importantly, I always feel sorry for the dog, who struggles to keep up with its owner. It's dangerous, also, for anyone else who is either riding their bikes or are on foot. You can never predict if a dog will take off after something, pulling you down, run into someone else (causing another cyclist to wipe out, for example), etc.

Conversely, a guy at work mountain bikes in the woods and his dog comes w/him. The dog is not leashed, however, so the dog is able to take breaks and go at his own pace.

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Hi V
I totally understand your concerns...I see similiar problems all the time. And in the majority of cases, I totally agree with you.

But that does't mean that roadwork is a bad idea. A lot depends on the dog's structure...you can easily tell good from not so good...a dog with good structure never breaks a trot and I would say they are the only good candidates. The rider also rides at a pace that allows the dog to maintain that effortless trot. Seeing a dog struggling to keep up with an oblivious rider breaks my heart....

My plan is to work where and when traffic of all sorts is minimal and wait until my dog is trained to safely accompany me. (I am a dog trainer who works in competive obedience.) Her structure is great; she can cover miles in that floating trot...and her, and my, safety s paramount....
thank you for your concern...I pretty much agree!
elk
P.S. there are some pretty efficent springy attachments for this; it's not like just tying your dog to your bike.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elk

Hi V
I totally understand your concerns...I see similiar problems all the time. And in the majority of cases, I totally agree with you.

But that does't mean that roadwork is a bad idea. A lot depends on the dog's structure...you can easily tell good from not so good...a dog with good structure never breaks a trot and I would say they are the only good candidates. The rider also rides at a pace that allows the dog to maintain that effortless trot. Seeing a dog struggling to keep up with an oblivious rider breaks my heart....

My plan is to work where and when traffic of all sorts is minimal and wait until my dog is trained to safely accompany me. (I am a dog trainer who works in competive obedience.) Her structure is great; she can cover miles in that floating trot...and her, and my, safety s paramount....
thank you for your concern...I pretty much agree!
elk
P.S. there are some pretty efficent springy attachments for this; it's not like just tying your dog to your bike.

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Elk -
It sounds like you've done your homework. I use the K-9 Cruiser attachment IF I'm going to the paved trail and nothing if we go mountain biking. My Weimaraner has her RN, CD, and 2/3rds CDX along with her CGC, JH, NSD, and NRD so her obed isn't an issue (and sounds like it won't be for you either). Us Weimaraner people frequently "road" our dogs especially getting them ready for hunting season. I'm also an AKC hunt test and field trial judge.

I have to put a plug out ther for the K9 Cruiser. I had both of my Weims hooked to the K9 Cruiser a couple of years ago and a squirrel darted out in front of us. The squirrel cocaine was too much for my well behaved obed/hunting titled dogs and they collectively tried to go in the direction of the squirrel. With the K9 Cruiser's low center of gravity, all that happened was the dogs managed to move my rear wheel a few inches to the right as there was enough forward momentum to correct the behavior without crashing me! The bike NEVER started to lean or tilt. I was so impressed.

Robin's road speeds easily reach 18mph (I didn't have her attached as it was a crappy day and no one was on the 8 mile paved loop) but like you said, I prefered to just run her at a trot. Just last weekend, she did about 15 miles on the mountain bike trails and the girl will be celebrating her tenth birthday in three months!

Be careful running, troting, or pacing on hard surfaces at first until she toughens up her pads. Teach her to drink out of your water bottle or a camelbak as it's easier than carrying extra water just for him/her. Everything else you probably know.


BIKE STUFF -
I accidentally woke the BF typing in bed :eek: (he's still sleeping as it's 6:30 am on a Sunday) and he wanted to know who I was writing. I told him about your issues on the bike and as a Trek dealer himself, he said the 7000 would more than likely be fine once you find the right saddle.

Good luck!

Jeni

Somewhere is a thread (Maybe in "Favorite Saddles"?) that describes how to measure your sit bones.

There are lots of cool ways to do it, and some really creative ones using things like plasticine clay between layers of waxed paper.

I put a piece of typing paper on the seat of my lightly-padded kitchen chair. Sat on the paper, and put my hands under my butt. Felt for the sit bones, and moved my fingers to the outer edges of each bone where it was sitting on the paper (they do angle a bit, so try to measure the part you feel most comfortable sitting on). Marked the paper there with my fingernails. Measured the distance between the marks.

I did that a few times, and averaged out my meausrements. I got 170-180mm. Added a cm or two to each end (so I don't sit on the edge of the saddle and to give me some wiggleroom to shift position for hills etc) and came up with a minimum saddle width of 190-200cm.

The saddle I fell in love with is slightly wider than that, and suits me so well that I bought a second one for my other bike, too.

One of the next saddle decisions is pear-shaped top or "T" shaped top. If you are getting chafing at the lower panty-line zone (like the fold where your buttock meets your thigh) you might want a saddle more "T" shaped than your current one.

Then there's length of nose. I like long noses to help me control the bike.

Narrow nose or wide nose? (I like narrow ones)

Padding or not? Lots or a little? (no padding for me, it irritates me)

Soft-tissue groove or cutout? (not for me since the saddle isn't padded and I sit back on the sitbones most of the time anyway.)

Color? (I have black on my black bike and honey on my gold bike) Color is, of course, very important. But not as important as comfort!:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

One of the next saddle decisions is pear-shaped top or "T" shaped top. If you are getting chafing at the lower panty-line zone (like the fold where your buttock meets your thigh) you might want a saddle more "T" shaped than your current one.

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Slight Hijack...Knot feel free to answer in another thread if appropriate. This is me. I love my Specialized Jett, except that there is just too much of it right in the area you describe.

I am having a hard time finding saddles to look at that are good performance saddes that are truly a T shape. Do you have a line on a few models?

The 155 width seems good for my bones, but the mid-saddle width is too much!

I don't know of any that are only 155 mm wide. (cuz my sits are wider than that :eek: and I've only investigated ones that would fit me.)

The ones I like are the Brooks B66, B67, B68, and B72. They are very sharp "T"s, and legs slip nicely on the sleek leather so I've not had any chafing yet.

Some folks might not consider Brooks to be performance saddles, but you sure do see a lot of serious cyclists here in the Seattle area who have Brooks.

Maybe take a look at the Wallingford site www.wallbike.com and compare the tops of the narrower racy saddles to the saddle you have now? I know a few women who really like the B17 and the lighter racy versions of it, but I've never ridden one.

(about the only saddles I really investigated are Brooks, sorry, I've got limited knowlege!)

[QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by TrekJeni

Elk -
It sounds like you've done your homework. I use the K-9 Cruiser attachment IF I'm going to the paved trail and nothing if we go mountain biking. My Weimaraner has her RN, CD, and 2/3rds CDX along with her CGC, JH, NSD, and NRD so her obed isn't an issue (and sounds like it won't be for you either). Us Weimaraner people frequently "road" our dogs especially getting them ready for hunting season. I'm also an AKC hunt test and field trial judge.

I have to put a plug out ther for the K9 Cruiser. I had both of my Weims hooked to the K9 Cruiser a couple of years ago and a squirrel darted out in front of us. The squirrel cocaine was too much for my well behaved obed/hunting titled dogs and they collectively tried to go in the direction of the squirrel. With the K9 Cruiser's low center of gravity, all that happened was the dogs managed to move my rear wheel a few inches to the right as there was enough forward momentum to correct the behavior without crashing me! The bike NEVER started to lean or tilt. I was so impressed.

Robin's road speeds easily reach 18mph (I didn't have her attached as it was a crappy day and no one was on the 8 mile paved loop) but like you said, I prefered to just run her at a trot. Just last weekend, she did about 15 miles on the mountain bike trails and the girl will be celebrating her tenth birthday in three months!

Be careful running, troting, or pacing on hard surfaces at first until she toughens up her pads. Teach her to drink out of your water bottle or a camelbak as it's easier than carrying extra water just for him/her. Everything else you probably know.

BIKE STUFF -
I accidentally woke the BF typing in bed :eek: (he's still sleeping as it's 6:30 am on a Sunday) and he wanted to know who I was writing. I told him about your issues on the bike and as a Trek dealer himself, he said the 7000 would more than likely be fine once you find the right saddle.

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Jen
Forst of all, i am SO happy to hear about your Robin being in such good shape...may she go another thousand miles..:)
My collie, Maudie is only 2 years old and I want to keep her young!!! (SHe's a recent adition to the pack, training for Delta Society TD certification & her CD now. Has been herding tested and has a TT from the GSD club------and we thought bikespeak was complicated!!!)
I bought the walkydog from sitstay...but yours is a hearty recommendations and I will look at the K9 Cruiser.
I use a "cool pooch" bottle..the thing with the cone on the top for the dog and a straw for me....my dogs love it.

Someone mentioned tincture of ben....??? for the untoughened pads...??

Thanks for waking your DH...:D .... I WANT the 7000 to work;it feels like a really fun challenge--- the Pure is a SAFE bet, a little sluggish.

Knot,
Thank you. I have been reading your Brooks posts...you got ME intrigued!!! ANd I'm headed for the paper...
Is there a way to narrow your choice based on your body type? I have a round large butt (many would call it fat...and it is....I think its cute....) and a pretty fleshy frontal area... I'm 5"4 and weigh 185 currently.
I have padding... do I want more or less on the seat?!


COlor is CRITICAL!! Both of the bikes in my yard right now have british tan saddles on creamy bodies and its a winning combo....

thanks!!!
elk

Knot, thanks. I have always assumed that since I seem to need a cut-out, the Brooks' would not do for me. I certainly see what you mean about the available T-shapes, though.

I'm just worried, because I wonder what kind of compression my perineum (sp?) and clit areas would suffer.

Do they let you test ride Brooks just like other saddles?

Wallbike lets you try the Brooks for 6 months, no questions asked. (they do expect you to pay shipping if you send it back, but it's well worth it!)

I don't get any compression on the Brooks, because there's no padding jamming up between my sitsbones and pushing into my softbits. Padding and I don't get along well. My softbits are held up kind of off the saddle surface because it really is the sitbones bearing the weight. Like sitting on a kitchen chair.

Elk - not sure how much body type has to do with the fit of a Brooks or any other saddle. Seems like bone structure is the main thing. And personal preferences. A good sitbone measurement is critical, and carefully analyzing what you like and don't like about your current saddle. (you can learn a lot from an uncomfortable saddle!)

BTW - anyone ordering a Brooks, be aware that the rear cantle plate (is that what it's called?) is about 1 cm wide. (metal frame bit the leather is riveted to). You must be sure your sitsbones aren't sitting ON that metal plate, so for example for a set of 150mm sits, you'd want at *least* a 170mm wide Brooks so you are off the plate and on suspended leather. LisaSH had a B17 and she was on the plate. She switched to a B68 and was on suspended leather. I'm sure she'd be happy to describe the saddle fit issues there.

No doubt the Brooks are the most (to me one of the ONLY, great looking seats) and as soon as I figure out my measurements and what I need (if I go with the 7000) I'm gonna get me one!!! All the info here is INVALUABLE! :D thank you....

Meantime...any more suggestions about whether to take on the challenge of the 7000, (height off the ground, ouchy saddle) or stick with the pokey, comfortable safe Pure? :confused: am I leaning???????? (Jen's half awake Trek dealer gave me a wee nudge...)

I think Electra makes a 21 speed foot-forward bike. In fact, I think there is someone here on TE who does centuries on hers.

<Knot scurries off to search out a link>

http://www.electrabike.com/04/bikes/...05_twn_15.html

They also have a 24 speed, but that one is over $400.

Hey Knot, thanks. With a 6 month trial period, that's pretty hard to beat. I'm thinking I'm going to try a men's Toupe 1st, then we'll see. Thanks again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

I think Electra makes a 21 speed foot-forward bike. In fact, I think there is someone here on TE who does centuries on hers.

<Knot scurries off to search out a link>

http://www.electrabike.com/04/bikes/...05_twn_15.html

They also have a 24 speed, but that one is over $400.

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That was the first one I tried...I found the Treks fit my body better.

BUT! I just came back from a 7000 cruise and found an adjustment to my saddle that will work OK for now...I slide back and perch my sit bones on the back of the saddle with the nose tipped down a smidge and I was fine!!!! I am so happy I can keep the 7000...(is it a city bike? a hybrid, what?)

I tried the Electra first....the Treks seemed to fit my body better...

I am in LOVE with the Electra AMsterdam...but 3 speeds wouldn't do it for me in my shape in this neighborhood (Portland west side)!!

elk

P.S. WHat do you think of the Brooks B67s? Wallbike is out of the B67 in honey and I MUST have honey..!!! I was thinking that might be a place to start or I'll look at the An Atomica as well.... If the cut out REALLY works...that could be awesome!

I'm very happy with both my Brooks B67s.

Some folks have had bad luck with An Atomicas, some have liked them.

Was it clear that I meant the women's B67 vs the mens'?:)

B67 vs B67s ?

not plural B67

elk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elk

Was it clear that I meant the women's B67 vs the mens'?:)

B67 vs B67s ?

not plural B67

elk

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The big difference is the length of the nose. The "women's" B67-S (which stands for "short") has a shorter nose. I like long noses, and don't find the long nose catches on my skirts, so I prefer the normal B67. Both of my B67's are B67. (no "Short")

I use a springer attachment to roadwork my dogs, we usually go about 3 miles with some pavement but mostly gravel. I like the looks of the walkydog, how do you like it? I like that it comes on and off easily; I just ordered a folding bike and it would be nice not to have the big springer sticking off the side, and it's not all that easy to detach it. I do like that I can attach another springer on the other side and do a dog on either side of the bike, but usually I just attach two dogs to one side. They are very prey driven and so far they've never pulled me over- the park where we bike has a lot of deer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fastdogs

I use a springer attachment to roadwork my dogs, we usually go about 3 miles with some pavement but mostly gravel. I like the looks of the walkydog, how do you like it? I like that it comes on and off easily; I just ordered a folding bike and it would be nice not to have the big springer sticking off the side, and it's not all that easy to detach it. I do like that I can attach another springer on the other side and do a dog on either side of the bike, but usually I just attach two dogs to one side. They are very prey driven and so far they've never pulled me over- the park where we bike has a lot of deer.

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Hi fastdogs (greyhounds???!?!?) My walkydog JUST came in the mail today, and we're not quite ready to do more than trial/training "walks" yet....but if you go to the sitstay website...)where I got mine) you might find more info. I have another link too...hang on...;)
http://www.sitstay.com/store/equip/eq6.shtml
http://www.petexpertise.com/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi

I'll let you know what I discover as I discover it!!!
elk