Perspective on Cycling Safety

There have been many posts recently about cyclists' deaths.

We understand the emotion. In our household, Silver was PROFOUNDLY affected by the death of a cyclist she was riding with last year.

But, cycling in the USA has a better average fatality rate than cars.
Biking Fatalities: 2.64 per million people
Vehicle Fatalities: 146.7 per million people

Personally, I'm encouraged that this statistic is so low by comparison given that cyclist are not cloistered in steel as car drivers are.

Every death is a tragedy...particularly when it results from someone's careless negligence.

But, I remain encouraged that cyclists have a very good probability of safety compared to our primary nemesis - cars.

My source is this government study from 2005: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd...005/810617.pdf

Dear Mr. Silver,

Fatalities is very much final. But, what about statistics on serious injury per xx miles per person??

And wasn't there a study where the trend for cyclist injury was on the rise even though the compliance for helmet use was going up?

I don't want to scare anyone here. Its just..., well, I'm a lot like my cats, very curious. And like cats, too lazy to search. :o ;)

For those of you who may get worried over some of the horrible news, it might be worth noting that much of the accidents are from racers, ex-racers and such (I think).

Racers tend to skew the statistics I think. Case in point, the year I "quit", well there was me sorta like Saul Raisin, can't recall my accident..., one gal crashed into a tree and broke her pelvis; another gal crashed and had multiple pins in her arm; another half mooned her wheel while practicing pace line and ended up with pins in her left thumb. And all of these happened during practice/training. And I thought we were being careful and mindful about safety. Definitly far less than million miles.

2 death per million miles and almost 70x lower death rate than a car is something to cheer about. I wish it was 0.0 per million miles...

smilingcat

SC, you're absolutely right. There's a lot more statistics out there ( I couldn't quickly find the injury stats)...PLUS, we can make stats say anything we want them to... I acknowledge that the stats I cited could be interpreted in many different ways.

But here's another one: Worldwide Bike Production is about 100Million units/yr. Car Production is about 40Million units/yr. Annual production was equal for most of the last 50 years, but Bike production went into orbit about 10-15 years ago.

So, despite statistical interpretation issues, I personally remain encouraged that with the number of bikes on the road exploding, fatality rates are still low relative to cars.

I read recently that after many years of slow but steady decline in deaths of motorcycle riders in bike/vs/car accidents, these past two years have shown a sudden alarming leap in deaths for motorcycle riders. The only guess they have so far is the sudden proliferation of car drivers talking on cell phones... :mad:

It was a kid on a cellphone who rear-ended my Subaru at a stop light last week.

I wonder how the stats work as far as fatalites per million riders and fatalities per million drivers? Maybe the car fatalities are higher because there are so many more people who drive than bike?

We've had 4 bike-related accidents in my small town (100,000) in the past month. The one fatality was a 23 year old man without a helmet who jumped the curb on a mt bike, lost control and hit a telephone pole.

The other 3 people survived with injuries -
- 1 was a 16 year old boy without a helmet, crossing against a light.
- 1 was a man with a helmet on a bike lane, crossing the highway, someone turned left. His bike was more damaged than he was luckily.
- 1 was a man with a helmet riding downhill in the bike lane, through an intersection a few blocks from my house and a van turned left right in front of him. The van left the scene. :mad:

In my town, the last 2 are anomolies. More often than not, the "cyclist" who is hit and injured or killed, is riding at night, without lights, on the highway, without a helmet, weaving into traffic (and often intoxicated).

I get my panties tied in a knot when I hear about these types of accidents and then the inevitable calls for cyclists to stay off our roads.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kelownagirl

I wonder how the stats work as far as fatalites per million riders and fatalities per million drivers? Maybe the car fatalities are higher because there are so many more people who drive than bike?

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Yeah- maybe the statistics are like that because sometimes there are 2 or more people riding in the car and they are all killed in an accident- do they count all those passengers too? Likely yes.

I read an interesting article once about vehicle safety. It said that the average proportion of fatal accidents in cars has remained fairly steady over the years, despite incredible advances in safety features.

The theory was that there's an acceptable level of risk stuck in people's minds, and as cars get safer people just drive more recklessly.

The only example I can remember is anti-lock brakes: now folks just follow closer than they used to before antilock brakes.

It was an interesting article. I have no idea how to find it again.

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Originally Posted by kelownagirl

I wonder how the stats work as far as fatalites per million riders and fatalities per million drivers?

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I did look for that, but I'd wonder how they estimate a statistic like that...At least Car Miles are supported by # gallons of gas consumed (which is a measured statistic), but my guess is that any bureaucrat would underestimate the number of bike miles logged...

I wonder if we would all be safer if they took the big SUVs away from all these people. The moms in their behemouth SUVs scare me more than old Bubba in his farm truck. You have 1 kid, do you really need a Ford Expedition?

I wish we rule you must show genuine need for such an extravagent vehicle. Of course half my friends would need to get new cars! :rolleyes: And cell phones need to be regulated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aggie_Ama

The moms in their behemouth SUVs scare me more than old Bubba in his farm truck. You have 1 kid, do you really need a Ford Expedition?

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What is a Texas Cadillac? A Chevy Suburan, or course

The scary thing is my husband's Grandma who shouldn't even be driving, yet has a Dodge Ram 2500 Dually. I envy Europeans and their small cars. I drive a Dodge Caliber, 4 wimpy cylinders. The little car caries two adults, two schnauzers, two bikes and camping gear- why do I need more??

And I am sorry, the mom's here have Excursions- a Ford 250 with a bed cover. :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aggie_Ama

The scary thing is my husband's Grandma who shouldn't even be driving, yet has a Dodge Ram 2500 Dually. I envy Europeans and their small cars. I drive a Dodge Caliber, 4 wimpy cylinders. The little car caries two adults, two schnauzers, two bikes and camping gear- why do I need more??

And I am sorry, the mom's here have Excursions- a Ford 250 with a bed cover. :rolleyes:

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Could be worse, Excursion or Ford Extinctions with 2 foot lift kits are the rage here.
Reminds of the time when I did a climb (Lytle Creek).I stopped when the road turned to gravel to rest, some guy came in a lifted truck and proceeded to spend 10 minutes trying to turn around when he could have done it in about if he had used the gravel...

Mr. Silver, thanks for starting this thread, 'cause I think it's an important point. After my crash (no bones broken but massive bruises, black eye and plenty scared) I really had a hard time getting back on the bike and I wound up avoiding this forum, as helpful as it had been, because of the reports of deaths and injuries from all over. I actually had the mindset "ok, is this the time I get killed or maimed?" when I went out on the road. And I still get scared sometimes.

I tell myself 1) I'm a cautious, conservative rider and I play it safe. Nothing wrong with that. 2) A lot - not all, but a lot - of the accidents come from people doing dumb stuff, like riding in the wrong place, at night w/ no lights, etc. 3) I keep myself very visible. In fact, I'm getting a little frustrated at how many of the nice jerseys for large women are dark! 4)and I'll add that bit about racers to my mantra. The first night I went to the Lehigh Velodrome for the Master's Nationals in Aug., there were 3 crashes. Latelate will stay off the track.:rolleyes:

I've been lurking here for a while and I figure I should just jump in at some point. :)

Here's an article that I'm re-posting from C.I.C.L.E. It has lots of great stats about cycling safety:


Sep 10 '07 - Is Bicycling Safe?
Published September 9, 2007 by Raise the Hammer
By Ryan McGreal


Raise the Hammer promotes cycling as a great transportation choice. It's cleaner and healthier than driving, producing zero emissions and achieving the equivalent of 595 km/l (1,400 mpg) in fuel economy.

Nevertheless, would-be cyclists often ask: But is it safe? Will I have to pay for my environmental choice with crippling injuries or premature death?

An article in View Magazine a couple of months ago advocated for better bicycle infrastructure by focusing on cycling dangers. Though well-intentioned, it reinforced many preconceptions without examining them for accuracy.

In fact, cycling is arguably safer than driving.

Comparing the Risks
Every activity carries risks, and are many possible ways to compare the relative risks of cycling and other activities. Looking at several can help to form a more complete picture.

Fatality by Distance Cycled
The most obvious comparison is the fatality risk per distanced traveled. In this straight-up analysis, cycling is more dangerous than driving. Every 1.6 million kilometres (one million kilometres) cycled produces 0.039 cyclist fatalities, compared to 0.016 fatalities for motorists. They're both very low, but the risk for cycling is more than double.

However, this is not the most useful way to compare risks.

Fatality by Time Spent Cycling
Failure Analysis Associates, Inc. performed a comparative analysis of fatality rates for a variety of activities per million hours spent performing a given activity. They concluded that the fatality rate for every million hours spent cycling is 0.26, compared to 0.47 per million driving hours (on-road motorcycling comes in at a whopping 8.80 deaths per million motorcycling hours).

That is, riding a motor vehicle has nearly twice the risk of fatality as riding a bike for a given duration.

Overall Fatality and Commute Homeostasis
According to the US National Safety Council, for every million cyclists in the US, 16.5 die each year, whereas for every million motorists, 19.9 die each year.

This is important, because it helps us to draw conclusions about how the higher risk per distance traveled interacts with the lower risk per time spent traveling. Cycling is more dangerous on a straight distance comparison, but because drivers travel farther on average, the overall risk to an individual is higher for drivers than for cyclists.

This is related to what we might call "commute homeostasis", or the amount of time a person is willing to spend traveling. All things being equal, a person is willing to travel a farther distance only if they can get there faster.

People who drive tend to live farther away from destinations (e.g. work commute) than people who cycle. In fact, one benefit of cycling is that it saves so much money that cyclists can often afford to live much closer to where they work.

Cycling also tends to place a premium on proximity, so cyclists are more likely to locate in places where many destinations are nearby, which reduces the cycling distance and hence the risk as a function of distance.

Fatality Rate in Crashes
Another way of evaluating risk is to examine the odds of dying if you do crash. Common sense dictates that crashing in a bicycle has a higher risk of death than crashing in a motor vehicle, but according to the NHTSA, bicycles compare rather well.

The odds of dying from a bicycle crash are one in 71. This compares to one in 75 for a light truck (pickup truck, SUV, van), one in 108 for a car, one in 43 for a truck, one in 26 for a motorcycle, and one in 15 for a pedestrian.

In other words, the odds of dying in a bike crash are about the same as the odds of dying in an SUV crash. The false sense of security that comes from an SUV tends to produce far more dangerous driving behaviour.

"Life Years" Gained and Lost
In addition to the direct risk of death or injury, cycling and driving also carry indirect risks that must be factored into account.

According to a study by the British Medical Association, the average gain in "life years" through improved fitness from cycling exceeds the average loss in "life years" through cycling fatalities by a factor of 20 to 1.

Driving confers no commensurate health benefits through improved fitness; in fact, time spent driving actually correlates with poorer overall health and higher risk of heart disease, obesity, diabetes, cancer, and related lifestyle diseases.

Psychologically, it's hard to weigh the slight risk of being hit by a car tomorrow against the vastly reduced risk of having a heart attack in twenty years, but it is far too significant to ignore.

Risk is Mutable
Since cyclists are not a homogeneous bunch, it makes sense to examine whether and how cycling behaviour affects fatality rates. It turns out that cyclists who ignore the rules are much more likely to die than cyclists who follow the rules.

The difference is so stark that it would make more sense to regard them as two separate populations for the sake of comparison. Averaging the two groups - cyclists who follow or who disregard the law - together obscures the vast differences in their relative risks.

It also obscures the fact that an individual cyclist's choices strongly influence their risk of fatality. Cyclists are not helpless victims of safety statistics (even encouraging statistics).

It might not be politically expedient to state, but in the majority of bicycle crashes, the cyclist is at least partly at fault. Cyclists are hit when they ride on the sidewalk and appear out of nowhere at intersections; when they pass on the right; when they ride at night without lights and reflectors; when they ride the wrong way down one way streets; when they ride too closly to parked cars; and so on.

Bike infrastructure can certainly help: streets with clearly marked, well-maintained bike lanes are safer than streets without them. It's also clear that bike lanes increase the perception of safety for would-be cyclists.

However, the way you ride is a bigger factor in accident prevention. The absolute best way to avoid accidents is to ride as though you are driving a motor vehicle. In other words: be visible, follow the rules of the road, pay close attention to what's happening around you, and practice defensive riding. You will earn the respect of motorists, maximize your safety, and get the most enjoyment from cycling.

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latelate, you're right. We can't control WHAT HAPPENS, but we can INFLUENCE OUR ODDS.

Tonight, I had a late night at the office, leaving in the dark, 45 minutes after sunset.

At a congested intersection near campus, I saw a student, in full cycling regalia, even clipped in...without a single reflective fiber on his bike or his body. Can we say DARWIN AWARD CANDIDATE???

If we have a burglar alarm in our house, we tend to feel safer. Are we safer? NO! A stupid criminal could still rob us...but we've made ourselves a harder target by having the alarm. Likewise, in cycling, can bad things happen? YEP! But, we improve our odds greatly if we have CLASS:

• Courteous
• Lawful
• Alert
• Smart
• Sane

Good for you for getting back on the bike! After Silver's wreck last year, while she was still in the hospital, I bought her new Madone to show that I support her continued cycling, but also so she's have some motivation to get back on the bike!

We may be asking the wrong question. It's not about how many die on the bike or in the car. What about health benefits? I believe every time you get on a bike instead of in a car you increase the odds of experiencing quality life (independent of injury risk):
1. The health benefit will increase your lifespan and the quality of those years
2. It is just so much more darn fun to be travelling on a bike than in a car.

Of course #2 will only happen if we feel safe on the bike and that has a lot to do with how many people die on a bike or in a car, or how many of each we know personally. I personally know 5 people who have died in separate car accidents, all of them tragically young...9 yrs old...13...18...19...21.

I've been thinking about this thread for a while. Thank you, Mr. Silver for starting it.

First, where I'm coming from. I work in a rehab hospital and ride a bike (duh!).

I have noticed that at any time there area multiple people on "my" units that have been severely injured by a car. Not all, by any amount of means, but a bunch. There was a particular period when Younger Daughter was starting driving that there were 4 rooms on one hall with teen driving victims. :eek:

In addition to the auto injuries, we also get our share of heart problems, diabetes, renal failure and lung disease, among other problems. The stroke victims go to other units. A good number of these problems are lifestyle induced. I've yet to talk to one of these people who are active athletes.

In the six years I've worked there, I know of exactly one person in the whole hospital who was injured on his bike.

Now, I know that the plural of anecdote is not data, but gee, it seems as though bikes are a pretty safe lifestyle. (Note that I didn't say perfect. If people do it, there will be disasters. File this under Sad but True)

One other thing. This group keeps its members informed of cycling deaths and disasters pretty much world wide - as do other online cycling groups. It can look pretty scary, but do we inform each other of random strangers killed by cars? Or heart attacks? Or, well, 'most anything else?

So ride like you're invisible, don't do things that defy the laws of physics, wear your helmet, keep the rubber side down, and know that as long as you are actively cycling, running, walking, kayaking, Moving Your Body, fer the love of Pete! you will be less likely to have a Total Hospital Experience - which is No Fun. But don't let an idiot driver in, say, Perth keep you from riding in, say, Minnesota.

Don't let yourself be ruled by fear.

Oh, and stay out of the way of cars. Seriously.

/lecture.

Thank you, I feel much better now.

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Originally Posted by Lisa S.H.

I read recently that after many years of slow but steady decline in deaths of motorcycle riders in bike/vs/car accidents, these past two years have shown a sudden alarming leap in deaths for motorcycle riders. The only guess they have so far is the sudden proliferation of car drivers talking on cell phones... :mad:

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There's no comparison between bicycle accidents and motorcycles, except in one aspect: Most if not all of the jump in motorcyclist deaths has to do with repeal of helmet laws in several states.

I have no interest in discussing helmet laws. Zero. Don't start. Suffice it to say that I am alive right now because of a bicycle helmet I was wearing at 21 mph twenty years ago.

If the statistic is true that someone posted that more bicyclists are wearing helmets, that's a great thing. But the opposite trend is true of motorcyclists, and *that* is what accounts for the increase in deaths. Unlike a bicycle, a motorcycle has big rear view mirrors and much more power than a car - it also has more maneuverability than a car. Unlike a bicycle, a motorcyclist *always* has the last clear chance to avoid a crash with a car, no matter whose legal fault the initial problem might have been.

Incidentally, most present-day motorcycle fatalities are also single-bike accidents.

There's no excuse for not paying attention *whatever* your mode of transportation. Recently a pedestrian was killed in my area, running at night with her back to traffic and an iPod jammed in her ear. I cringe every time I see a bicyclist with earbuds in. But motorcycle wrecks have no place in a discussion of bicycle wrecks.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

There's no excuse for not paying attention *whatever* your mode of transportation. Recently a pedestrian was killed in my area, running at night with her back to traffic and an iPod jammed in her ear. I cringe every time I see a bicyclist with earbuds in. But motorcycle wrecks have no place in a discussion of bicycle wrecks.

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Well, if we are talking about car accidents, pedestrian accidents, bicycle accidents.....why the heck aren't we "allowed" to talk about motorcycle accidents as well?? :confused: They are all related in various convoluted ways, though they may have varied causes. Discussions here are open to many ideas. :cool:
I imagine more motorcyclists are now wearing iPod buds too, just like joggers and bicyclists do. More car drivers, cyclists, pedestrians, (and maybe motorcyclists too?) are talking on cell phones as they move in traffic. In fact, Manhattan was going to make it against the law for pedestrians to walk across the street while talking on a cell phone. (have they actually passed that law yet?) That would be interesting, as every 8th person walking down the street in manhattan seems to be talking on their cell phone these days. I see teenagers talking on cell phones while weaving through traffic one-handed on their bicycles all the time....with no helmets either. :eek:

I also don't see why all of a sudden there would be a policing of acceptable and non-acceptable topics to discuss. One can find another posters' words offensive (which doesn't seem to be the case here), but saying that entire topics should not be discussed? :confused:

Besides, cyclists and motorcyclists have in common that they're a lot less visible than cars on the roadway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Unlike a bicycle, a motorcyclist *always* has the last clear chance to avoid a crash with a car, no matter whose legal fault the initial problem might have been.
.

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sorry, i don't understand what you are saying here??? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Grog

Besides, cyclists and motorcyclists have in common that they're a lot less visible than cars on the roadway.

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and they are both exposed completely and go down the road on two (usually) wheels.

Here is an interesting link to consider:

http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds_dying.jpg

<ramblings>
I am interested in risk analysis (I am in network security so I think about this topic a lot), and recently have been reading a great deal on how humans are poorly equipped to assess risk. We greatly exaggerate the unusual or unknown types of risks in our minds, while underestimating the risks with events that are far more likely to happen, for example death by heart failure, cancer, or as a passenger/driver in a car. Given the scale of those risks, I will hedge that as a cyclist who is exercising and eating well, I am doing more to combat or defer the outcome of the first two or three categories than risking my life! And we all should be pressuring auto manufacturers or our local gov for safer cars and transit ways, as car drivers, passengers, pedestrians AND cyclists [if you are never a car driver or passenger, more power to you but most of us mix and match in these categories].

I think the cycling deaths strike so close to home for us because most of us fear the end - we fear we will not have gotten to do or be everything we wanted, we fear how it will happen. I know at times I do. And we relate to the cyclist killed. So we imagine, this could be me! every time there is a new report on the board of a serious cyclist killed, and come to the conclusion cycling is very risky.

A little girl in our area (12 years old) was killed just days ago on her bicycle by a utility company truck. If I were to publish that here as another vehicle versus bicycling accident, would we relate to it the same way? I don't think so. Some here might relate to it more adversely, thinking perhaps of their own kids, while others might not react as much since the image of a child riding her bicycle down a residential street doesn't so much map with our images of ourselves as adult cyclists out on a ride.

The only way, I think, to combat my fear of a life interrupted prematurely by any kind of death is by living it fully if not daily, then over the weeks, months, and years that I have. Cycling is definitely fulfilling, and I'm not going to give that up.

Plus, I still do strongly believe the more cyclists there are, the more drivers will learn to coexist with us.

So, basically +1 to many of the sentiments already here!

Well, all I can say is, I try to be safe in every circumstance but nobody, including myself is perfect and I make mistakes. I was driving the other day and had plenty of room between me and the truck in front of me, under what would be ideal circumstances but it had started raining that morning and the roads were wet. I looked down for what I thought was just a second and looked up to see Red Brake lights, I hit the brakes and skid and just barely, by inches missed him, but to close for comfort for sure.
I ride my bike, I wear my helmet, I take a light should it get dark, I have water for hydration, a snack should I decide I need something quick to eat, I even carry a little first aid kit with bandaides and such. Well, sometimes my neck starts to get sore so I will try to stretch my neck by bending it down and then around, and once went a little squirrley on the road, thank goodness a car wasn't coming down the road at the time.
Point is, we aren't always and cannot always be on our guard 24/7.
I don't borrow trouble if I can help it, but I learn from these mistakes, given another chance. ;) and try do better the next time out only to find that some days I make different small mistakes which can always be costly.
Now I'm not saying I make a mistake daily to learn from, I just remember it when I do and log it in my brain for quick retrieval in the future.
I sound like an accident waiting to happen huh? LOL
Really I would be safe to ride with. :D

:::Standing O!:::

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Originally Posted by MomOnBike

I've been thinking about this thread for a while. Thank you, Mr. Silver for starting it.

First, where I'm coming from. I work in a rehab hospital and ride a bike (duh!).

I have noticed that at any time there area multiple people on "my" units that have been severely injured by a car. Not all, by any amount of means, but a bunch. There was a particular period when Younger Daughter was starting driving that there were 4 rooms on one hall with teen driving victims. :eek:

In addition to the auto injuries, we also get our share of heart problems, diabetes, renal failure and lung disease, among other problems. The stroke victims go to other units. A good number of these problems are lifestyle induced. I've yet to talk to one of these people who are active athletes.

In the six years I've worked there, I know of exactly one person in the whole hospital who was injured on his bike.

Now, I know that the plural of anecdote is not data, but gee, it seems as though bikes are a pretty safe lifestyle. (Note that I didn't say perfect. If people do it, there will be disasters. File this under Sad but True)

One other thing. This group keeps its members informed of cycling deaths and disasters pretty much world wide - as do other online cycling groups. It can look pretty scary, but do we inform each other of random strangers killed by cars? Or heart attacks? Or, well, 'most anything else?

So ride like you're invisible, don't do things that defy the laws of physics, wear your helmet, keep the rubber side down, and know that as long as you are actively cycling, running, walking, kayaking, Moving Your Body, fer the love of Pete! you will be less likely to have a Total Hospital Experience - which is No Fun. But don't let an idiot driver in, say, Perth keep you from riding in, say, Minnesota.

Don't let yourself be ruled by fear.

Oh, and stay out of the way of cars. Seriously.

/lecture.

Thank you, I feel much better now.

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Okay, obviously I phrased something wrong. I didn't mean to get on anybody's case or say that certain things "shouldn't" be talked about - what I meant is they aren't relevant. Talk about whatever you want. But I bet the person who posted the comment I replied to knows what I'm talking about, since they're obviously a motorcyclist too.

Re: "last clear chance," that's an old-fashioned legal term, but I meant it in a common usage sense. On a motorcycle, if you crash, it is ALWAYS your responsibility. You ALWAYS could have avoided it, no matter WHAT some car driver might or might not have done. (Sure there are exceptions, meteorites falling from the sky, pianos dropped out of skyscraper windows, things no one could possibly anticipate, but they're extremely rare.) On a much less powerful bicycle, that's not always the case. You're traveling much slower than (for example) the car that's turning left in front of you. You didn't necessarily have the option to not enter the intersection until they'd done whatever they were going to do - you may already have been in the intersection before they approached - and you definitely can't goose the throttle and go around them to the outside.

Other than the fact that we don't have a protective cage around us and we need to put a foot down when we stop (and we lean the *correct* way going around a turn) bicyclists and motorcyclists really don't have that much in common. (In a civilized country, I would have my velo and my moto, and nobody would be confused by them both being called "bike." ;) ) Anybody who's crashed both motorcycles and bicycles (raising own hand wildly) can tell you that the dynamics are completely different. Bicycles throw you down to the ground, hard. Motorcycles do that (albeit in a different way) when you highside, but the much more common lowsides and impacts throw you in the direction of travel, and then the issue is mainly whether or not you hit anything solid in your path. And despite the fact that we wear protective gear on the same parts of our bodies (other than back protectors and earplugs, and let me tell you it took me a long time to get used to not putting in earplugs when I get on a bicycle), our gear just really gets subjected to different kinds of stresses and impacts. Honestly? Although I do neither, I would much rather ride a motorcycle without a helmet than a bicycle, precisely because when you crash a bicycle, it throws you down on your head, hard, whereas on a motorcycle you're much more likely to slide out on some less critical part.

When you're talking about fatalities, motorcycle fatalities in the present day are usually the result of somebody missing a turn and flying off the road, all by themselves. Bicycle accidents are unlikely to be fatal unless there's a car involved.

Mainly, I just got my back up about the comment that motorcycle fatalities are up because of car drivers' cell phone use. That stinks of ABATE sophistry and it is just plain not true. If bicycle fatalities are down, that's great, but we're on the same roads with the same phone-addicted SUV soccer moms, and somehow, we're surviving it when the motorcyclists aren't. /Soapbox off.

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Originally Posted by MomOnBike

In the six years I've worked there, I know of exactly one person in the whole hospital who was injured on his bike.

Don't let yourself be ruled by fear.

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Here!!!! Here!!! That's outstanding! :D :D

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Originally Posted by tygab

Here is an interesting link to consider:

http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds_dying.jpg

<ramblings>
I am interested in risk analysis

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Ty, that's an oustanding chart! Let me offer an example of what a difference perspective makes:

Among other things, I'm responsible for Risk Management for a bank.

In general, a bank will have losses...for a well run bank, those losses are about .2%/year (not 2%, .2%!). In other words, we are right 99.98% of the time.:D :D

If that kind of accuracy doesn't give you a sense of invincibility, nothing would!! :p :p

So, why do we always look at the .2% and ask ourselves why we didn't do better?????:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Hmmm...:confused:

Okay, sometimes it's hard for me to stop when I'm talking about safety...

on a motorcycle, visibility has Nothing To Do With It. On a bicycle, visibility is Very Important.

There's a large segment of soccer moms who literally wouldn't see a semi before they turn left in front of it. They do, and when that happens, *they're* the ones who die, and nobody gets to hear the sob story about how they didn't see the semi. It's just a convenient excuse when the vehicle you flatten is smaller than your own. On motorcycles, we have a saying that the 10% of car drivers who can see you are AIMING FOR YOU. Go back to what I said about "last clear chance."

On a bicycle, you're occupying the same lane as motor vehicles, and maybe you're going as fast as they are, but more likely (depending on the road and your fitness level) you're doing 15-35% of their speed. They *need* to see you in order to give you room. On a motorcycle, nobody should be giving you room, you should be going *faster* than the car traffic.

Bottom line, it's really, completely, different.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Silver

Here!!!! Here!!! That's outstanding! :D :D



Ty, that's an oustanding chart! Let me offer an example of what a difference perspective makes:

Among other things, I'm responsible for Risk Management for a bank.

In general, a bank will have losses...for a well run bank, those losses are about .2%/year (not 2%, .2%!). In other words, we are right 99.98% of the time.:D :D

If that kind of accuracy doesn't give you a sense of invincibility, nothing would!! :p :p

So, why do we always look at the .2% and ask ourselves why we didn't do better?????:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Hmmm...:confused:

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The last 0.2%/yr... perhaps its the law of diminishing return? Sometimes, this is seen as evil e.g. car's can be built so you can survive a 200MPH crash. race cars do it. but a regular car, you don't have a chance. It's matter of how much effort we want to put in. It's money thing ;)

And yes I also liked the chart. Just one thing though. Legal execution at 1 in 60,000? is sad...

back to bike safety:

If you didn't get enough sleep, don't ride.
If you are really exhausted don't start a ride.
If you need to take a phone call, STOP!!

and all the other usual rules.

Lack of sleep was a major factor in serious wrecks I've seen firsthand. My riding partner drifted and crashed into a back of parked truck with camper. We had increased our speed to around 24MPH when it happened. destroyed his frame and broke his nose.

Another was my serious wreck. I sort of remember not having had enough sleep the night before.

and on and on...

The three rules I just posted are often ignored or not listed. And it is so important to be alert when you are on your bike.

Be safe,
Smilingcat