For the ladies who have trained for and completed an Ironman

OK, I have a questions:

1) How far out did you start training for your IM?

2) Did you get rest days in your training plan? Was it possible to get in the volume that you needed and get rest days?

3) Did you have a regular day job (aka: Basically 7-5 with getting ready, etc.)?

My goal is to start training for my IM about 8 months out (Jan-Aug). So far, my coaches theory is that I train 7 days a week, and this is only for my HIM. I put in around 10-13 hours a week on average.

I really want to know if it will be possible for me to train to FINISH an IM in around 16 hours... with only 5-6 days of training.

This HIM training has shown me that I can't go for months without a rest day. Sure, I love training, but I need a mental and physical rest day. I need to lay on the couch and be lazy at least 1 day a week.

I'm going to work with him to see if he can come up with a different type of training plan... but if he can't... and I KNOW it's possible to train for an IM and get rest days... then I'm going to have to find a new coach.

Luckily, I will have from Oct-Dec to find a new coach. Although, he is so reasonably priced ($85 a month for weekly training plans and unlimited contact), I'm not sure if I can afford someone else!

So... give me all the gory details IM ladies! I want to know what is possible!

I haven't done an IM but I've done a lot of research on training techniques (not that I follow it). You have to have your rest days--that's when you actually get stronger. Working out breaks down your muscles, recovery builds them up. Lance Armstrong trained 50% less for the last Tour as he did for his first because he learned to train smarter. That would be the key--making those 4-5 workouts a week really count.

Ok, I'll do my best here....

) How far out did you start training for your IM?

Well I had a good solid base from marathoning, so I only really started the hard stuff in January for my April IM. I really wouldn't start the long stuff too early. Your body can only handle that kind of abuse for so long. And you don't want to peak too early. I'd say 12-16 weeks of hardcore build is enough.
That is a steady ramp up in mileage of all 3 disciplines. BTW- my longest workouts were a 100 mi ride/ 8 mi run brick, or an 80 mi ride/ 13 mi run brick. For stand alone long runs I never ran longer than 15 miles, which is much different that marathon training.
And I did prolly 4 full distance swims in training. A lot of people do more than that, but I'm a crappy swimmer so I figured that I was wasting my time. More time swimming laps does not equal better form, sooo....
But anyway I did do a TON of 80-100 mi rides always with at least 3 mi run off the bike.

2) Did you get rest days in your training plan? Was it possible to get in the volume that you needed and get rest days?

YES!!! You have to take at least ONE day to rest up- mentally and physically. And yes, I was still able to get in my volume. But I did two workouts a day during the week. One in the morning, one in the evening. Usually about 1.5 hours in the morning and 1 hour in the evening. Even if that mean't spinning on the trainer while I watched t.v. for an hour.

3) Did you have a regular day job (aka: Basically 7-5 with getting ready, etc.)?
In 2006 for my first one, no. But my husband does work out of town during the week, so I was functioning as a single mom.
For my second one yes. But I had a very flexible schedule, so I was able to come in late on Tues and Thurs so I could get my 2 hour ride or swim in. So I really only worked about 32-34 hours a week. And yes, I was still functioning as a single parent. So it was tough.

So as you can see it is possible. I think it all depends on where you want to be performance wise. Do you want a sub 14 hour IM? Then you will have to put in a lot more time ( IMO of course). But for me I just want to enjoy the day and finish in an upright position with a smile on my face.

Hey KSH- Don't know if you listen to the ironman talk pod casts, but the boys had a big thing about coaching today- and when it's time to dump the old one.
It's podcast # 72. Check it out.

www.ironmantalk.com

I've never done the podcast thing. I'll check it out if I can figure it out.

Thanks for the input ladies, I do appreciate it.

I am going to keep gathering information and figuring out what will work for me. I know some people do build and recovery weeks. Something like that might be good for me. It just seems like all I ever do it build!

OH, and RM... for my HIM... I'm doing a 70 mile ride and 12 mile run every week... and I'm about 8 weeks out from the race.

Oh KSH that is ALOT (IMO of course).... Are you trying to qualify for Kona??
I'm not saying that you shouldn't do over distance, or those types of workouts. Just not every week.
One more thing I do in build phase is that I step down every two to three weeks depending on the distance and amt of jumps I'm taking.
Your body needs a break sometimes to recover and mend itself.
Some people are of the mindset of pummeling your body into the ground. I'm not one of them. And IMO that is why I rarely suffer and injuries.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Running Mommy

Oh KSH that is ALOT (IMO of course).... Are you trying to qualify for Kona??
I'm not saying that you shouldn't do over distance, or those types of workouts. Just not every week.
One more thing I do in build phase is that I step down every two to three weeks depending on the distance and amt of jumps I'm taking.
Your body needs a break sometimes to recover and mend itself.
Some people are of the mindset of pummeling your body into the ground. I'm not one of them. And IMO that is why I rarely suffer and injuries.

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See, that is what my coach is giving me. He's been "nice" this week and I only have to do a 50 mile ride. HA! Maybe this is my "recovery" week? Although, he hasn't done this before.

Qualify for Kona? OH YEA! :rolleyes: :o

What is so sad, is that as time has gone on... I've gotten SLOWER! My cycling average has dropped... my running has gotten worse too (although I blame that on the heat and humidity).

I don't really see the pay off for all the time and miles I'm putting in. I just feel tired and fatigued. I get on my bike and I don't have the perk I usually do. I don't know if that is how this works, or what.

I like my coach, but I wonder if he knows how to finesse a training plan to work with someone like me. Meaning: I need a rest day and I probably need more quality over quantity in my training plan.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KSH

What is so sad, is that as time has gone on... I've gotten SLOWER! My cycling average has dropped... my running has gotten worse too (although I blame that on the heat and humidity).

I don't really see the pay off for all the time and miles I'm putting in. I just feel tired and fatigued. I get on my bike and I don't have the perk I usually do. I don't know if that is how this works, or what.

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KSH,
I hate to say this, but, getting slower is a classic sign of over training. You need rest days! Be very careful, besides running your body down it can lead to injuries!(I am a good example, I ignored those signs and ended up needing knee surgery- and the ortho told me that my injury was due to over training).
But I am very inspired and impressed that you are going to do an IM, one day I would love to(need to learn to swim first)

+1 what Emily said!!

You should not be getting slower. Having a bad day once in a while is acceptable but not consistently being slower.

I'll contribute more later. I'm at work and gotta go.

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Originally Posted by ehirsch83

KSH,
I hate to say this, but, getting slower is a classic sign of over training. You need rest days! Be very careful, besides running your body down it can lead to injuries!(I am a good example, I ignored those signs and ended up needing knee surgery- and the ortho told me that my injury was due to over training).
But I am very inspired and impressed that you are going to do an IM, one day I would love to(need to learn to swim first)

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Well, I was thinking so.

I wondered if I just going crazy, so I looked back over my training logs.

Back in June for 25-30 miles I would keep a 17-19 mph average on my bike.

Now, for the end of July/August, for 25 miles I'm keeping a 15-16.6 mph average.

That's a huge drop to me.

Otherwise, my running has always been somewhat pathetic and the heat has been killing me. On my LSD runs I typically keep a 12-13 mph average, due to walking/running intervals.

Yeah, definitely agree with Emily!
Sounds like your coach is pushing you to do too much. If you're a pro, then I guess he should be kicking your butt and running you like crazy- but you're a normal athlete like the rest of us, and it seems like you're doing too much (IMO).
You HAVE to have one rest day each week. The program I did had the rest day on Monday to give you a break after the loooonng weekend workouts. You need that day to wind down.

The program I did was AMAZING and got me to the finish line in around 16 hours (trifuel.com under the 36 week IM training program). The program was free, and did everything it was supposed to (periodization, step-back weeks, etc). I'll use it again for my next IM, and I know others in my tri club who've used it for IM with success. The creator of the program is always available for any questions you have via e-mail (it's not like you can e-mail him weekly, but I had some questions during the training and he answered them promptly).

How far did I start out?
I had a good base as a marathoner also (like RM), but I started 36 weeks out. The program is very easy at first, and the intensity builds as the training progresses (that, and it was my first season doing tris so I wanted as much practice as possible).

Rest days?
Yup! Every Monday was total rest. Weekends were long workouts, and Monday was an off day (maybe yoga, but usually just rest).

Work schedule?
Well, I worked 7-4 for the first 5 months of training, had 2 months off (summertime- I teach- so that was great) and worked 7-4 the last 2 months of training. While it was sometimes harder to get it all in, I managed. The longest weeks were when school was starting and it was kinda difficult to get all the hours in, but not impossible. I'm just a bit of a procrasitnator and would postpone my job duties until they piled up. Better time management would've allowed me to get it all done.


It can be done, but sacrifices have to be made. I kinda fell out of touch with my close non-tri friends, but they understood. My DH was VERY supportive and understanding. If he wasn't- it would've made our marriage very rocky. Luckily he ran, rode and swam with me whenever his schedule allowed (especially on the long weekend runs and rides when I'd be gone so long). He sacrificed "fun" vacations so we could do trips that would allow me to train sufficiently, he didn't mind that I'd fall asleep every night at 9:00, or that I'd eat anything and everything that I saw (sometimes including his dinner :p ), and he didn't mind that all I talked about was the race for the 3 months prior. :D
If you have the support and the determination (which I know you have), then it's very doable.

I'm so excited for you to do your HIM!!!! What is the date again???

yOUR GETTING slower??!! put on the brakes!!! NOW!!
Ok, if you want to enjoy that half IM then you need to step it back NOW! If you don't want to deal with the coachs ego right now, then just tell him you did the distance or whatever. I dunno?? I hate to advocate lying. But if you don't want the stress at this moment, just do what ya gotta do!
Yes the heat will slow you A BIT. But I'm training in Phoenix Monsoon season, and my average hasn't dropped like that.
You are breaking down your muscle fibers without giving them a chance to heal and get stronger. As said, you will eventually get sick and or injured. And my guess is it will happen sooner than later if you don't rest. For the next couple of weeks I'd actually schedule TWO off days just to get your body healed. But you always need at least one. AT LEAST one!
Get those vitamins in too! Your body needs them right now.

Thanks Emily, Tri Girl and RM! You ladies are "pros" in my book, so I really appreciate the feedback!

Well, it's obvious that I have gotten slower on the bike. Heat ususally doesn't affect me that much on the bike.

Do I have to do all the workouts he gives me... well, no. And honestly, I usually skip the Friday swim he gives me. But I'm paying him and I figure he has this "master plan" for where he needs me to be by October 7th. So, I think if I skip a workout this puts me further behind my goals.

He and I communicate mostly via e-mail, but I think sometimes he doesn't really listen. I did tell him how fatigued I was feeling about a month back... and he told me to cut down some of the intensity. So, I did. It helped some, but I haven't really bounced back to where I was a couple of months back.

I am taking 2 days off this week... and tonight I'm going to get a 1.5 hour massage. Time for me to unwind mentally and physically. I'm also taking Friday off and then I'll do a long ride on Sat. and long run on Sun.

Thanks for all the input ladies. I really do appreciate it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KSH

OK, I have a questions:

1) How far out did you start training for your IM?

2) Did you get rest days in your training plan? Was it possible to get in the volume that you needed and get rest days?

3) Did you have a regular day job (aka: Basically 7-5 with getting ready, etc.)?

My goal is to start training for my IM about 8 months out (Jan-Aug). So far, my coaches theory is that I train 7 days a week, and this is only for my HIM. I put in around 10-13 hours a week on average.

I really want to know if it will be possible for me to train to FINISH an IM in around 16 hours... with only 5-6 days of training.

This HIM training has shown me that I can't go for months without a rest day. Sure, I love training, but I need a mental and physical rest day. I need to lay on the couch and be lazy at least 1 day a week.

I'm going to work with him to see if he can come up with a different type of training plan... but if he can't... and I KNOW it's possible to train for an IM and get rest days... then I'm going to have to find a new coach.

Luckily, I will have from Oct-Dec to find a new coach. Although, he is so reasonably priced ($85 a month for weekly training plans and unlimited contact), I'm not sure if I can afford someone else!

So... give me all the gory details IM ladies! I want to know what is possible!

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Sorry this took me a while but I wanted to hae enough time to post something with substance.

1) I started training for this IM 8 months out. I think I could have done it 6 months out and may have done just as well, but that's with a huge base at the HIM distance. IMHO, if you can do an HIM in 7 hours, you can finish IM in 16.

2) Yes. The big volume comes on your days off. the rest of the week you are looking at shorter workouts with some other goal to them, like intervals or hills. My longest bike ride during the week was 1:45, with exception of one specific week where I wanted to amp up the volume so I booked off work early and did a 3 hour ride. But that was only once. You plan the rest days in and don't cheat on them. They will happen. If you can get 2 high quality workouts in for each discipline a week, you can plan a rest day and you will be fine. Ideally, you want more than that and you do it by scheduling 2 workouts in a day during the week, clustering your hard workouts, then you still have a rest day.

3) I have a regular job but I can manipulate my schedule so that I can sneak in workouts during the day. I take a longer lunch so I can run and I stay later. I also book off an hour or two here and there to squeeze in something if I have to. As long as my patients are getting seen and the paperwork is getting done, my boss doesn't care. I get paid by the hour, so anytime off just means a little less income.

HIM and IM training are very similar. The weekday workouts would be about the same, what changes is the weekend, long workouts. So as long as you're willing to commit an entire day to riding in your weekend, You can do it. As for the running, I never train longer than 2.5 hours running. That's about 14 to 15 miles. It worked for me the first IM. We'll see what happens this time. My training by hour was in the 15 to 20 range during big volume weeks and in the 12 to 15 range when I was working on intensity. Joe Friel says that you need a minimum of 500 or 600 hours to train for IM. That works out to about 15 to 19 hours per week for 8 months. But realize that those are planned hours and you'll end up taking more rest sometimes just because you need it.

My hard weeks did not have a total rest day but they had at least one, usually 2 days that I did light recovery rides or swims. My rest weeks had at least 1 if not 2 days totally off. I think you can do an IM workout with one day a week built in that is total rest. It's just not for me. I actually recover better with a light workout on my "off" days.

Think about this, you are a good swimmer, I'd say about the same pace as me...that has you finishing the swim at a little under 1:10, 5 min for T1. That's being generous. So you're on the bike at 1:15. Your bike sounds similar to mine as well. I did my first IM ride in 6:30 and that was a hilly course and I did not push too hard. So that means you're now at 7:45. At my first IM I had to massage my feet before I could run, that took 8 min so let's say for whatever reason you have a long T2 - 15 min. You're now at 8 hours. That gives you 8 hours to finish the Mary to come in at 16 hours. 9 hours to come in in under 17. Your really can do this. Even if you don't get much faster running, you just have to build up your endurance.

Go for it. But yeah, I think you need a different training plan. This 7 days a week thing is not working for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KSH

Although, he is so reasonably priced ($85 a month for weekly training plans and unlimited contact), I'm not sure if I can afford someone else!

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KSH, I am not a triathlete. I am not a coach. But, the friend I have who completes IMs gets rest days. And, from my perspective, if this coach runs you into the ground (and perhaps injuries as you get older), you can't afford NOT to change coaches. Just my .02!!

Wahine... thanks for that response. I really do appreciate it!

Yea, right now with my HIM training, I'm doing around 600-900 MINUTES a week. Which works out to about 10-15 hours a week. I am down for doing my long rides on the weekend no problem.

I am HOPING to finish my HIM in around 8 hours. I think I do the full IM and make it in under 16 hours... but I'm sure it will be around a 6 hour marathon.

So, your longest run for your IM training was 2.5 hours? Well, I have already done that with my HIM training. Of course, I'm so slow, that equals 12 miles for me.

Thanks again for the input.

Starfish you are right... I can't afford not to get some rest days, etc.

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Originally Posted by KSH

Starfish you are right... I can't afford not to get some rest days, etc.

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That said, you are still one tough woman with the training you have already held up under!

[QUOTE=KSH;234865]OK, I have a questions:

1) How far out did you start training for your IM?

I did my first IM in Coeur d'Alene in June. I had been training for the Houston marathon through mid-Jan 2007 and started IM training after that. So I guess I trained for 5 months after having a good run base.

2) Did you get rest days in your training plan? Was it possible to get in the volume that you needed and get rest days?

I ALWAYS took a complete day off on Fridays to prep for the long weekend. I worked out as follows:
Monday: morning = swim, evening = rest
Tuesday: morning = weights, evening = trainer ride and run/brick
Wednesday: morning = swim, evening = trainer ride
Thursday: morning = weights, evening = run
Friday: REST
Saturday: long run
Sunday: long ride, long swim

3) Did you have a regular day job (aka: Basically 7-5 with getting ready, etc.)?

I work full time (and very hard) and am a single mom of teenagers. I was only able to do this because my kids are very self-sufficient and supportive. My social network evolves around training and was lucky enough to have 6 friends training for the race as well.

You can do this! But I won't kid you --- it will be hard. I did 2 half IM in the previous year in under 6 hours and finished the IM in 16:08.

Make a plan. Communicate your plan to those around you. And definately take a rest day each week.

I haven't been posting much lately, but I saw this and thought I'd chime in...

1) How far out did you start training for your IM?

For my first IM (IMFL) I started training "officially" in January for the November race. It was too far out in my book and I hit a big wall around July. For my second (IMCDA) I started training in January for the June race and it was perfect timing.

2) Did you get rest days in your training plan? Was it possible to get in the volume that you needed and get rest days?

ABSOLUTELY. I took Sundays off each week and depending on how things went the rest of the week, sometimes another day. My typical schedule looked like this:

Monday: run/long swim
Tuesday: bike/strength workout
Wednesday: speed run/swim
Thursday: easy run or sometimes easy bike spin/strength or core work
Friday: long run/recovery swim
Saturday: long bike
Sunday: off

My schedule worked in three week build cycles with a "recovery week" after each three week period. During the recovery week, the volume went down, the intensity stayed the same, and I had one extra day off.

3) Did you have a regular day job (aka: Basically 7-5 with getting ready, etc.)?

Yes, I have a job, although I work from home. I also have two children (11 and 12) and although not a single mom, I am the major caregiver for them. My workouts happen generally before everyone else was up and at lunch time.

You should expect to be tired, but imho you are doing too much volume too far out and your coach is not giving your body ample time to recover and repair. Do a little research online and take a look at the trifuel site, or trinewbies or even markallen.com - he's got some GREAT information. Interesting note about Mark Allen, too, is that the LONGEST out he will create a schedule for someone is 20 weeks.

It sounds to me like your coach is not listening to your feedback and could have some unrealistic expectations of you. This could be dangerous and will leave you feeling tired, believe me, and you do NOT want that! We want to see you enjoying this process!!

I am now training for IM FL - this will by my first full IM, so I can't say my training schedule is successful, but I'm feeling like it will be....
So....
1. I started my "official" IM training mid July for my November 3 race. But, I also did a HIM in June. So I started training for the HIM in early February for the June race. I took off the month of June with scheduled training (i.e. I rode, ran, swam as I pleased, not according to any planned schedule), and starting in mid July I got back into regimented training. I needed that month and a half off or I'd be super burned out by now. I know how my body reacts, esp by this time of the year (I usually do a late spring/early summer HIM) and I'm usually burned out by now if I keep training straight through the summer.

2. I do have rest days. You have to!! If I don't take a rest day, that usually burns me for the next week's training sessions. And after riding 100 miles on a Saturday, I'm not feeling like doing anything on a Sunday! And as others have said, your long days will most likely be on the weekends (if that works best for you) but you can always move the days around in a week for what fits your schedule. I like doing my long runs Thursday afternoons after work. For some reason, that works best for me, not on a weekend morning. I prefer my long rides on the weekends. Plus, every 4th week is a "recovery" week where I step back my training, sleep in, and just get in minimum mileage. If I'm feeling wornout, I skip the entire day's workout. I've learned over the years not to push myself during the recovery week, because again, I'll burn myself out for my heavy training weeks when I really need the energy.

3. Yes, I work a full time job. I have no kids, I have one dog, and a really supportive husband. He does the cooking in the house, so that helps me with my diet, and when I'm worn out and tired, I know I'll still be getting a good meal each night. He also rides the long rides with me, so I always have someone getting me out the door and motivating me along the way. As for my job, it's super flexible - as long as I work 80 hours every 2 weeks and no more than 10 hours per day, it doesn't matter when I come in or leave (within reason of course). So that really helps a lot.

Hope this was relatively easy to follow......let us know if you have any more questions. There's no doubt about it - IM training takes a lot of discipline and time. But I enjoy it, esp doing the long rides on the weekends. It's given me an excuse to actually sign up for more century rides this year and makes it more enjoyable to have different routes, etc to ride.

Oh, one more comment I forgot in the last reply....

If you're getting slower, take rest days!!! Take an entire week off training if you need to. It won't hurt your progress, it can only make it better. You'll come back refreshed and stronger. If your coach is pushing as much as I'm understanding, and you're feeling fatigued, overwhelmed, and slow - take a rest!!!! Seriously, I've learned the hard way, and with injuries. 2 years ago while training for a marathon I completely overdid it. I started marathon training the week after my HIM, with no rest, breaks, etc. Plus I kept biking a lot. I injured my hamstrings so bad that I couldn't run until Christmas that year (I injured them in early Sept).

Thanks again ladies for your replies! Very detailed, and I appreciate it.

Well, last week I lowered my training volume by half and took 2 rest days. I got back to my regular training schedule this week.

Oddly, it kind of hurt more than usual!

I was fresh for my run on Monday, but I have paid dearly for cutting my volume in the running area, for even one week. I have this odd lower leg pain, that comes and goes, but it seems like if I keep a constant mileage, it stays away. Just cutting my running volume last week, has made it so I can't run my scheduled miles this week.

My coach did give me a rest day this week, but I changed up the plan. For me to get a rest day, that means doing a 2 a day (run/swim on one day, etc.)... which I have a very hard time fitting into my schedule. I can really only allot for 1 training session a day...unless I have a run that is 4 miles or less, and then I can run at lunch.

I'm also taking an unscheduled rest day this week... because I have too much pain in my lower legs from running Monday and Tuesday.

I'm going to tough out this training schedule as best I can until my HIM, it's about 44 days away! After that, I find a coach who can finesse a schedule a little bit more for an old lady like me! HA!

On a side note, I'm siging up for IRONMAN KENTUCKY 2008 in 4 days! WOO-HOO! Now I just hope and pray I get in!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KSH

I'm signing up for IRONMAN KENTUCKY 2008 in 4 days! WOO-HOO!

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YIPPEEE!!!! Tell us if you get in!!!!!

Sorry about your leg pain. :mad: I guess you know which sports you can relax a little in and which one you'll need to maintain your mileage in.
Take care of those legs!!

You ladies are giving me the itch to do an IM! :) You make it seem possible. Hmmmm. Now I've got to rethink my whole schedule for next year . . .

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Originally Posted by limewave

You ladies are giving me the itch to do an IM! :) You make it seem possible. Hmmmm. Now I've got to rethink my whole schedule for next year . . .

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Yeah...I have my own demons going on but I'm reading this and thinking "what if...." Thanks everyone for being so great about sharing information.

Go for KSH...hell you are pretty much there already!
Nope no IM for me, I am staying in the dirt where I belong......maybe one of those wacky long distance trail runs one day....maybe Yellow and I could team up. For now...dirt lovin' xterra racer.....

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Originally Posted by limewave

You ladies are giving me the itch to do an IM! :) You make it seem possible. Hmmmm. Now I've got to rethink my whole schedule for next year . . .

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Anything is possible!

Now, if you want to do an offical M-Dot IM... I think with Kentucky included, you have 3 IM's left this year to sign up for to race in 2008. I know there is Florida (extremely hard to get into) and Wisconsin.

If it's a non M-Dot IM, then you can decide in 2008 which race you want to do.

Hey... Running Mommy showed us that it's possible! And so did TriGirl!

Of course, it's as very personal decision, and a huge one at that... but if you are willing to put in the training, you can do it.