Chamois lubricants--what's "safe" & where?

Cycling is new for me, and trying to work out some pain issues. Worst pain, bleeding labia minoria abraisons. Read some great info on this site to try and help resolve the problem. Worked on bike fit with LBS (still needs some more work, but some improvement), kept same saddle for now anyway, working on posture and technique, and also applied Desitin diaper rash ointment on my tissue and the chamois after I healed from the bad bleeding episode--gyno's NP made me stay off until healed. Posted a thread in tips/tricks about how to get the Desitin out, some responses, and read on their web site too--just spent a lot of time scrubbing--all shorts are toast, soaked thru to outside looking like a skunk trunk, and alas my vigorous rubbing also got the stuff all over other places of the shorts, kinda like a lovely retro tye dye look-ugh! After reading I know that there is Chamois Buttr to try and Assos--that say they will wash out of shorts, but I am not sure they will give me same protection as the 40% zinc oxide of Destin and where you could put it? Meaning like, my worst abrasions were in the underlying folds of the labia under pubic bone, not just the outside, so lined these internal channels with a lot of Desitin--knew the peds said it was ok for the kids years ago, so I thought it was safe to do (and put on chamois as well). Some soreness, but no more bleeding, so improvement. Also, going to gyno in few weeks when he gets back from vacation because I suspect I have some perimenapausal issues I never thought much about until I read it in some other threads. Dryness hormonally, and my allergy/asthma meds do this as a side effect of drying all things in the body--breathing takes a higher rating than the dry, so I stick with it and use lubricants for intimacy and added this to my bike rides by trying to insert KY vaginally--which I knew was safe, plus the Desitin outside. Also, I don't really seem to have my much padding tissue wise in the labia, know thinning can be another issue with the hormones. OK, and weirdly enough I don't know about other ladies but I think I am uneven down there it looks like??? :confused: ..the smaller/thinner side gets more sore and I am not sure how to sit my saddle straight to try and stay off that side more--it gets the most Desitin. Plus, I think I have more scar tissue than the average lady from pelvic prolapse repair surgeries and having a couple big babies that required lots of stitches as well. JMO-a need for stitches shouldn't even be allowed down there at all! Someone said to try A & D to not stain the shorts, assume it is ok on the internal labia channels? and another idea was Bag Balm--it that OK on the internal labia channel tissue? I read the ingredients of Assos and think the tingling/drying properties of the Witch Hazel in it would make my hormone dryness problem worse in my case? I know ladies use Vaseline for dryness/chaffing I was told by the gyno a long time ago can seal infections in? so not sure about that one either. Yes, while the Desitin is helping, I just don't think I can be seen with this nasty shorts fashion statement.:( I'll see what the gyno says, but any thoughts are appreciated!

Aaaaahhhhhh!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Start trying out some different saddles, that would be the very FIRST thing I'd try if I was bleeding and in agony. :( :( :( :(

Yeah, my first thing would be to change the saddle also. Especially to one with less padding (less to rub and catch and crush you) and one that you are certain is wide enough to support your sit-bones so you don't weightbear on your soft tissues. And there is absolutely NO reason for you to be weighbearing on your pubic symphysis!!!!

Don't use vaseline or any other petroleum product especially on open skin, cuz it will be tougher for your body to clear. You said you've tried KY, and it wasn't good? Try astroglide. Try "Oh My" or System Jo if you want glycerin-based lube. (just be ready to reapply glycerin lubes often)

Seconding the previous two wise gals posting ahead of me. Get the saddle fit issues taken care of first. No amount of topical cream can solve problems with saddle and shorts fit.

That aside, I had some spectacularly unpleasant results with diaper rash cream containing zinc. Zinc is a natural antimicrobial agent, and it completely nuked the natural protective flora that I try to nurture down there. This led to problems with yeast infections, cracking, bleeding, etc. Occasionally I'll do some spot treatment with zinc on a zit or saddle sore, but now I generally avoid it. :eek:

Water-based lubricants work well for me. Also, if I'm feeling borderline, an over-the-counter anti-yeast cream (generic miconazole) also works great as a lube. Both of these wash out just fine.

Just what Dianyla said. Be wary of stuff like Desitin, A&D ointment, and any other pore-blocking stuff--they make a small infection become large. Water based stuff like Chamois Butt'r also works best for me, and doesn't seem to cause any harm anywhere. And oh, please oh please break your messages into a few paragraphs--it would make it way easier for us to read..:)

Thanks ladies for the thoughts on the saddles and creams for chamois.

Know what you mean about cushier is not better necessarily for saddles--LBS put one on to try in trainer and it did have a ladies cut out, but a cushy higher crown in the back which seemed to slant my weight even more forward--didn't buy that one for sure. Read some saddle posts on here, and looked at online, but just a bit baffled what might work and not. My current saddle is the only one I've had with the bike and is a ladies WTB SheSpeed with a concaved channel, but not cut out. Sounds like all you can do is buy and try--don't think my LBS has the saddle exchange program I read about on here that some do.

The Terry saddles on this site have descriptions for useage. Forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference between the ones that say use for performance, and say the one that says best all around? Now I have just been road riding up to miles I think I can do, without pushing past overdoing it (minus the bleeding episode) so up 30 miles yesterday on w/e, and on a weeknight, I have a 20 mile loop I can work in. My big goal I would love to accomplish is to ride a century. Know that takes time and training. But with those thoughts, is there a certain saddle that would fit my needs?

Thanks also for the typing tip about paragraphs. New here, so still learning the board. I know that was a "book report" but sometimes I feel like my womanhood has been worked over enough that it has enough info for one--and I'm 38--most ladies don't need the surgery stuff until their 60s--just weak tissue for unlucky me. Hmm, my mother always said I was "special" but she just never said HOW...oh my! Thanks for reading and any other ideas.

For saddles, first and foremost you need to measure your sit bones.

Some LBS have a pad you can sit on, then measure the outside-to-outside width of the dents you leave. Or you can invent your own way.

Once you know the outside measurements of your sitbones, add about 1-2 cm to each end to get a general idea of the width of saddle you need.

Probably the easiest way to go from there is to post on the Saddles thread, giving your width needed and preferences (cushion, cutout, "T" or pear-shaped) and riding style, and ask for recommendations. Chances are someone else on the board has similar needs and has tried several saddles and can share her experience with you!:D

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Originally Posted by Miranda

The Terry saddles on this site have descriptions for useage. Forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference between the ones that say use for performance, and say the one that says best all around?

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Honestly I think reading saddle descriptions (other than specs, like exact width) is pretty much useless to decide what saddle you'll be comfy on. You have to do TITS (time in the saddle) to figure out which one suits your bum best.

...First check on what saddle works best for you (and yes, the only way to know is time in the saddle), but second, make sure your bike fits you. I used to have huge issues with soreness (though no open sores, thank goodness!) and found that on my old bike my top tube was too long, forcing my weight forward onto my hands. I was scooting forward on the nose of the saddle to compensate. OUCH!

I feel for you! Saddle and fit are so critical to comfort... my first bike was too big and not fit properly and I had similar issues to what you've described, chafing and rawness and not being able to pee for an hour or so when I got off the bike...:(

I have since changed bikes and am now on one fit properly. But I've had some ongoing issues with saddles. I am testing a Bontrager saddle now... they have a 90 day "trial" period... so if I hate in within the next 3 months of rides I can try a different one until I find one I like!

Good luck... you should NOT be bleeding... and it should not hurt that much!

It's possible that the saddle you tried out in the LBS was fine, just needed to be tipped up 1/2"
my favorite saddle adjusted incorrectly on a bike gave me sores almost immediately!

All I can say is.......OOOOOOOOWWWWWWW!!

Ok, about the saddle. Go here to read about it before you toss out your saddle: http://sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html

Next, figure out your sit bone width. A Specialized bike dealer should have a butt-o-meter you sit on and they can measure the distance between the indentions of your sit bones. Specialized offers some of the ladies saddles in 3 widths. :)

If you choose to try to measure it yourself, I found this worked best for me. Grap a sheet of letter size paper, find a stool or shop stool that is low to the ground, lay the paper on the stool, and sit. You'll want to lean forward enough to where your sitbones are almost perpendicular to the stool. Then take the paper with your butt impression, measure the distance between the sitbones, and this gives your dimensions for saddle width.

Now, if you start shopping Terry saddles, the site will make recommendationds as to what saddle to buy according to your goals. An all-purpose saddle means it's not as streamlined and light as a performance saddle and will be appropriate for many different activities. Performance saddles are for those who are competitive cyclists and will tend to be narrower, lighter, and more compact. Terry offers many saddles, but unfortunately they don't offer a saddle style with different widths like Specialized. I tried 2 of their saddles and found the width wasn't right for me, so I went with a Specialized.

You might want to work with your local bike shop about test driving different saddles. Some LBS will allow you to try it out for a week. Others may have you try it out in their store. Choosing a saddle takes time and don't be surprised if you have to go through several before finding the one that's right for you. I personally went through 4. :)

As for chamois butter, I use Chamois Butt'r and it helps considerably with reducing chafing and sore spots. I really apply it generously to the inside of my thighs, the exterior tissues, and the chamois itself--particularly where the girlie parts will come into contact with it.

Another thing that may help with saddle sores is to take frequent breaks in the saddle--either by standing on the pedals, or stopping to get a good drink and a stretch. Generally I will do this every 15 minutes as I take a good drink of water. This will allow blood flow back into your girlie parts and will really help minimize the discomfort in the saddle.

I hope this and the suggestions from the other TE members helps. Good luck and let us know what saddle you chose.

I heartily recommend Astro Glide for the girly bits, along with Chamois Butt'r for the rest. Actually, after having pretty extreme issues last season, the Astro Glide works the best. But, I never have had any issues with the Butt'r causing problems if it gets near the "a-hem" parts. You only need a little bit of Astro Glide and it comes in a small plastic bottle that can fit in a pocket or small bag.
You might want to look into the menopause issue, too. Thinning membranes were playing a role in my discomfort and can easily be cured with topical estrogen or an Estring.

You ladies are a wonderful wealth of information! :)

I have taken the info on how to measure sitz bones width for saddles, and think I might have to do this on my own. I have one other bike shop next town over that I might be able to get some more help with, but at least if I know what I am looking for, that is a big step. At least even to search on line with a clue. Also, I still think I am a bit too much on pubic bone in weight, it's better since last bike shop fit, but not quite there. I hope it's not my bike frame itself--just bought new, but I guess we live and learn along the way if so.

Tonight after work before my ride, I went to SG store and bought Chamois Buttr and 1 pair new pricier shorts to ride my weeknight route. A bit more discomfort immediately. The shorts were a smaller size, which is good I think? because even though hip wise, I fit the other shorts right, but in some spots they were more stretched--however, new shorts had a different cut of chamois pad, and I think I hit it differently than the old pairs maybe? Really nice shorts otherwise. Tomorrow think I will try old shorts chamois with the Chamois Buttr, elimating back to one new change, and see what this holds.

Also, thanks for the thoughts on combining products, Astro Glide & Chamois Buttr...I'd mix a homemade chamois lube recipe up in my kitchen sink you ladies gave me if it would work!

Good thoughts about the gyno too--until I found that in a thread, I never knew there was such a cream for the hormones--after self-examination during the bleeding spell, I never realized about being thinner tissue on one side particularly of my anatomy--gettin' old is H*#$.

Thanks again, and for any more information. :)

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Originally Posted by Robyn Maislin

I heartily recommend Astro Glide for the girly bits, along with Chamois Butt'r for the rest. Actually, after having pretty extreme issues last season, the Astro Glide works the best.

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Another vote for Astroglide! I slather my shorts with unscented lotion like Aveeno Baby Lotion or Curel, then slather myself with Astroglide, and away I go. No problems since. My worst saddle sore was never actually bleeding, but it was painful enough that I knew I had to change something. Now I just make sure everything is nice and slippery and I'm saddle sore free!

I also use Astroglide. I didnt have the guts to buy it ,or even ask where it was :o ,so I had my husband buy it for me. Anyway, it works well, and is very slippery. I also use a topicial Estrogen prescription cream. Never have any bleeding ,or rashes.

Thx for the thoughts about the cream and glide! Gonna ask the gyno when I go for my appointment this week about the rx.

I am curious about the side effects... since it is a hormone, can it make you gain weight like the BC pill, or HRT? :confused:

Within the last couple years, I finally lost a lot of extra weight I carried for many of my "home years" post kids, about 40 pounds, and have kept it off within about a 3-5 pound flux. Finally, something for me, and I feel so much better in so many ways without the weight. I would never want to regain it back. But funny how a week family vacation of no gym and bike, and eating out a lot etc. can put this right on you, but then takes FOREVER it seems to get those few pounds back off. :(

Also, unfortunately from my pelvic prolapse repair surgeries and the docs cutting work, I have decreased sensitivity that my doc said was permanent :( . Some ladies have improvement from a Testosterone cream, which also is a steriod of some sort and the opposite of our estrogen cream for the bike issues--don't know what happens if you take both? See what the doc says. But I never took the testosteron cream before because of being a steriod. When I took steriods some years ago for something else, it made my hair fall out my the handfulls--like male pattern baldness, and I gained weight regardless of what I did. Also the doc said it only helps 25% of the cases and he had one lady grow sideburns with it :eek: . So, I decided I needed to think about it, since I don't think sideburns would be too sexy of a look for me, geez.

Sure the doc will give me the scoop when I go, but just wondering what other experiences ladies may have had first hand with creams? Thx :)

I just looked online for the ingredient list of the Chamois Butt's you guys are swearing by and I can't use it.....any other options? Has to be chemical and glycerin free.

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Originally Posted by Natural Beauty

I just looked online for the ingredient list of the Chamois Butt's you guys are swearing by and I can't use it.....any other options? Has to be chemical and glycerin free.

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Check out the ingredients for Assos chamois cream and Body Glide (though these both likely have some vegetable glycerin-like ingredients). Also, there are more and more chamois creams becoming available in the states (I'm assuming you're in the states?)... surf around sites like World Cycling Productions, etc, to see what they're carrying -- and do a google search for "chamois cream." A few products I've seen online but don't know anything about include creams by Ozon, Quoleum and Brave Soldier...

Other than that, how about pure cocoa butter, or some of the thicker cocoa butter cremes you can get in the drugstore (like Palmer's)?

Personally I am surprised that there are so many fans of KY jelly and Astroglide for this purpose -- I tried this once or twice and for me, once you start sweating this type of lube disintegrates almost immediately...

Edit: I read somewhere that Noxema used to be a common chamois lube as well... ;)

It doesn't lube, but it does take care of raw skin: diaper ointment. There might be a "kinder" version out there that would work for you, but that would not lubricate though.

Beljum Budder? (tested and approved by me, paraben free but not totally "natural")

Others have recommended, I haven't tried: Sportique Century Riding Cream (which, their website says "keep away from mucous membranes," ha ha, I guess it's for Men Only); and Nubutte.

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Originally Posted by liza

Edit: I read somewhere that Noxema used to be a common chamois lube as well... ;)

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Could that be from Dave Z's "main-taint-enance" blog years back? :p

I personally like a mix of Assos and Neosporin. Do not use Assos to close to certain parts. I will put some Neosporin on the outside of the labia, because of chafing that gets so bad it usually peels a couple days later. It is too sensitive to use Assos that close in enough quantity (because of the menthol). I may start trying adding a little of the glycerin free sensitive skin Astroglide to the mix, but only on the sensitive parts where maybe some would survive despite sweating. Assos is great not only in helping keep the whole area cool, infection and friction-free, but when you apply it directly to the chamois as directed, it helps keep the chamois softer. It doesn't wash out 100% with hand washings (only machine), but I don't think it's supposed to, necessarily. It certainly gets clean enough (no odors or anything), and they suggest applying the cream to wet shorts after washing. It's supposed to help keep it soft (though that's probably more applicable to a leather chamois) and clean. Usually I'm too lazy and I just put it on the shorts the the night before a ride or morning of in addition to putting some directly on my skin.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to have to do some research and give them a go. I will of course post results for those as sensitive as moi. :o

I just use unscented hand cream for sensitive skin.

Why would you use an antibiotic ointment when you're not infected yet? As a Microbiologist, I have to insist this is not good practice, and you couldn't buy the product over here over the counter because antibiotics are much more tightly regulated than in the US. It's not good for the natural bacteria you have down there, and not good for developing resistant strains.

I use a cream that is used for wounds and burns. it is basically Lanolin, plus Vitamin A and cod liver oil (believe it or not). It is extremely fatty and does not "sweat away". I used it the first time after I'd gotten completely raw on my behind and it healed up in 2 days. Smells a bit but it also contains vanillin to cover up the smell. Have to machine wash shorts afterwards.