the spirit was willing but the knees and arches were week.

Now that summer has started I have been increasing my mileage from 6 miles a few times a week ( my commute) to 12- 15 mile daily minimum with 30 milers poking there head, except for rest and rainy days. I jst started this biking thing and am loving it but I do not want to invest a ton of money into it. I have been using my normal shoes a pair of Pumas that aren't even good enough for walking in for an extended period. When I assigned them as my biking shoes I thought it would be okay and even great to find a new use for this loyal shoes. Yeah that was stupid. However, I think that is why my arches and knees are hurting. I think I have caved the areas around the arches down and but a crack through the inside sole. I switched to my more thicker soled trail running shoes (and hiked my seat up a fair bit!) to try and relieve this pain but so far I don't think it is enough. I don't want to spend more money on shoes and on pedals than on what I paid for the bike and to boot I am still unemployed :( .

Is there anyway around buying the pedal/ shoe package or is there a way around it? I am increasing my mileage each week and don't want this pain to slow me down. Until I got serious for a century or something I wanted to stick with what I have. Any hints or thoughts?

The problem is most likely that your soles are too soft and your foot doesn't have enough support (but it sounds like you know that already). When I bought my bike two years ago, I,too, had a hard time spending more money than it already cost. Therefore, I used eBay to buy almost everything I needed! I bought used road shoes (really nice and cheap), the pedals and cleats (but had to borrow a pedal wrench from a friend to put them on), and cycling jerseys a plenty. The only things I bought new at first was the helmet and a pair of bike shorts. Try eBay for some inexpensive cycling shoes and pedals/cleats. I'll bet that'll solve your foot/knee pain in a jiff. :)

Or go to REI or a shoe store and get a pair of Superfeet insoles. About $35. Wear them in ALL your shoes, ALL the time to support and sort-of retrain your feet.

Since you'd be doing a lot of biking, I'd recommend the Berry with the metatarsal arch support for the forefoot. (you'll be putting a lot of pressure thru the forefoot on the pedal)

If you have a really good shoestore, they should be able to "post" a 2nd pair of insoles (if you find some you like) specifically for biking, but start off with one pair in all your shoes and see how it goes. And if you don't like them you can return them to REI. (or sell 'em to me, if you're a size 9.5 ;) )

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

And if you don't like them you can return them to REI. (or sell 'em to me, if you're a size 9.5 ;) )

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thanks for the good advice. i think I will try the insole idea first and then I will reward myself later with some shoes/ pedals.

Sorry Knotted I am happy to make a size 7.5 no where near 9.5

What if i have wide feet? should I switch to one of the different insoles? the berry makes it sound like it is for narrow feet .

You speak of arch pain. What part of the foot are you placing on the pedal? It should be the ball of your foot. I see a lot of riders using tennies or running shoes put the arch of their foot on the pedal.

If this is what you have been doing, change to the ball of your foot plus you may have to raise your saddle a bit since this effectively lengthens your leg (saddle to pedal distance).

The Berry is not necessarily for narrow feet. It is more for women's feet, but Superfeet has learned that narrow-footed men are not willing to buy "women's" insoles. The Orange is the "men's" or "wide" version of the same insole, with a slightly less agressive arch/met support. (men don't have as curvaceous feet as women, on the whole)

If you are worried that your feet are too wide for the Berry, try the Orange. If neither of those feels fabulous, try the other kinds of Superfeet until you find one you like. (don't worry about the color or category, worry about how they FEEL!)

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Or go to REI or a shoe store and get a pair of Superfeet insoles. About $35. Wear them in ALL your shoes, ALL the time to support and sort-of retrain your feet.

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When you say retrain, is that something that is supposed to hurt or a feeling that I know i am wearing insoles but it is bearable?

Your feet (and ankles. and knees. and hips) are used to moving in a particular way. When you add an orthotic (aka insole) it alters the way you move. You may end up using new muscles, or need to tie your shoes differently, or all manner of other tiny changes. So you end up relearning some or all of your movement and coping skills. It's definitely retraining :).

A new insole that fits correctly *should* give you a subtle (or not so subtle) feeling of "I'm better". For me, it's a sudden feeling of "oh, I don't hurt", but my legs have problems that most people don't. If the insole hurts, it's not the right one, or your foot has changed enough that it's no longer the right one, or you've worn it out. I notice my orthotics when it's *very* hot out and my feet have sweated through my socks. I sometimes notice them when I've spent 6 or more hours standing, and my feet are depending on the orthotic to do more of the work of supporting me. I'll also notice them if I'm walking up a slippery incline or taking a very long walk (10+ miles). Otherwise, they aren't something I'm aware of.

Some podiatrists recommend wearing orthotics or insoles for an hour or two the first day, then slowly increasing the time. I've never done that, since I have always had hard plastic orthotics, and you can't really break those in.

Madscot, when I started, I wore "normal" shoes to ride and my feet hurt. Yes, through the arch too, even though I didn't put the arch of my foot on the pedal. I did buy bike shoes (Specialized Taho, about $70) but I did not buy pedals until the following season. The shoes alone made a HUGE difference for my feet!

The physical therapist types like Knott will have lots of probably even better suggestions, but a very firm, supportive shoe will help a lot, I'm sure!

Karen in Boise

Your foot arch pain and your knee pain may well be from two different sources.

Your knee pain might be from having your saddle too low (a very common thing with beginner cyclists), thus never letting your leg straighten out enough during pedaling. Try raising your seat by small amounts (1/4 to a 1/2" at a time) and see if that gets rid of your knee pain.

I tried out the superfeet Berry insoles. I think it may take some time. My left foot is okay with them for any amount of time but tmy right foot can only take so much before I have to swap it out for a lame no arch contour insole that came with the shoe. I don't think it is because I have low arches, I've actually decided if anything I have high arches. I think the pain has something to do with this sort of thick muscle mass (well I am guessing it is muscle but it could also be some other connective tissue). I thought everyone had this area but I think it might just be me. Maybe the pain comes from comes from arches coming too high on the instep. this area gets super hard and painful on bike rides longer than 10 miles. Insoles with a lot of arch create pain within 5 minutes.

If the insole is *causing* pain, don't use it. You can hurt yourself if you try. (This is not a sign to panic, just be sensible and recognize that pain means something is wrong)

And no, not everyone has what you're describing. Matter of fact, because of the bone deformities in my feet, chances are my muscles just *can't* do what yours are doing. Your feet are different so your pain doesn't necessarily mean what my pain does (and trust me, if you had the disorder that gave me my misshapen bones, chances are a doctor would've found it already. usually it makes your feet visibly the wrong shape).

Are you making sure to keep the ball of your foot on the pedal? I keep my feet in place without the usual toe clips or clipless assists because if I don't... my feet hurt. Nice little immediate feedback loop. A lot of people don't keep the ball of their foot in the right place as easily tho, and toe clips or clipless pedals are meant to help them maintain the right form.

Have you tried taking breaks before your feet start to hurt? Have you tried using gentle stretches and massage to reduce the pain? What happens if you only use the insole on the left, and let your right foot support itself?

I listened to everyone's advice and the results are better knees and less inflamed arches.

1. Bike shoes are better than Pumas. I picked up a pair of Sidis from Nashbar fore pretty cheap- as much as I pay on a pair of shoes anyways. The rigid support is noticable.

2. I picked up a pair of Superberry's for my everyday walking shoes. I picked up a paif SOLE custom footbeds to deal with my high arches and strange shape of the Sidis. I eased my time into these soles. At first I just walked around the house and then built up my time with the new insoles

3. I haven't put on clipless pedals yet. I am just getting used to the shoes but I think I am ready to do it as soon as I get my hands on a pedal wrench.

4. My seat height was good, I think, but I was out for a short ride today and another biker passed me and turned around and said "Looks like you have to raise you seat a bit." So I guess the new setup requires that I adjust my seat. Think I will do that now.

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Originally Posted by madscot13

3. I haven't put on clipless pedals yet. I am just getting used to the shoes but I think I am ready to do it as soon as I get my hands on a pedal wrench.

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You might try just a regular wrench. I was able to switch my pedals out with an old adjustable wrench that I found in my junk drawer. I may have been lucky though...evidently my pedals weren't on too tight. Just remember that the "righty-tighty-lefty-loosey" rule only works on one pedal. Both pedals will come loose when you're turning the wrench towards the back of the bike.

Yay! I'm glad you're hurting less.

And I hear you on the seat height thing. I have to watch my seat post, it seems to want to slip down a bit.

Hey, Madscot, have you already purchased clipless pedals?

ZenCentury passed on a pair of campus forte pedals. I think I will use those until I decide that I want to do a century this autumn or I fall on my face/ side of face too many times. I will probably upgrade sooner or later. What system do you have?