Drops vs. Hoods

I'm trying to ride in the drops more often. Currently I rarely get in the drops -it's just not very comfortable. I've noticed that when I go from the hoods to the drops it seems harder to pedal...I'm staying in the same gear. When I went into my LBS the other day to get their opinion on rotating my handlebars forward to alleviate hand and arm numbness (which worked BTW) the bike fitter said he thinks I need to move my saddle back. I'm not having any knee issues so I'm a little leery of doing that. But, could moving my saddle back give me more power in the drops?

Too weird! I just went through this very issue myself!
I had a Brooks "S" saddle that I liked but it had short rails and could not be pushed back much. I felt generally comfortable on my bike, but I did notice that i was never comfortable riding in the drops.
I got a new Brooks saddle that was wider for my sitbones, and coincidentally it had longer rials enabling me to shove my saddle back about 1 1/2" further than before. I was afraid this would make my reach too long, but it didnt'. Instead, it made my torso fold down and forward more in a comfortable way, actually making the reach more comfy for me. Odd concept, but my DH had explained it to me and sure enough it was true- for me anyway. It felt GREAT, and suddenly my legs had more power to "get behind" my pedal strokes. I can spin up the hills now with much less leg burnout.

But the funniest thing of all was this- after a day or so of riding with my new further back saddle, I started just finding myself happily riding along in the drops- without even having realized I had put my hands there! Suddenly I was riding in the drops naturally all the time without even thinking about it. Riding in the drops is now actually the MOST comfortable riding position I have, as opposed to being the position I always avoided. It's great because now I can alternate hand/body positions way more and avoid fatigue on long rides.

So yeah, SHOVE that saddle back girl, and give it a try!

I never rode in the drops the whole first year I had the bike. It felt very awkward and uncomfortable.

After spending the winter indoors on the trainer, I'm entering this season in much better shape than I entered last season. I've changed nothing on the bike itself in terms of seat position etc. I find that I ride in the drops for relief of back discomfort when on a longer ride. I also like the drops for rolling terrain, I seem to be able to power up the hills more effectively in this position. I am also a spinner more than a masher and when I'm in the drops I seem to focus more intently on my pedal stroke and concentrate on pedaling all the way through the rotation of the crank.

Perhaps you'll just find that as your fitness improves and you spend more and more time on the bike, it becomes more natural for your body to be in this position.

Good luck with it.

very interesting. Lisa, what about holding your head up?
how's the neck feel after 30 miles?

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Originally Posted by mimitabby

very interesting. Lisa, what about holding your head up?
how's the neck feel after 30 miles?

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Mimi, I am not having any neck problems- did 30, 40, and 50 mile rides this past week.
It's possible that part of that is because DH and I have Rivendell bikes which have a semi-touring geometry where the handlbars are basically at the same level as the seat. So we don't have as radical a racing position as most road bikes have. Here is a photo of DH and it shows pretty well how this arrangement results in a posture that is not giving us neck pain on long rides- in the photo he is riding with his hands on the hoods, but in the drops is really not radically different:
http://harmonias.com/riding.jpg
We purposely chose Rivendells for reasons such as this, because we are more interested in staying comfortable on long rides than we are in going really fast. Especially since we are not in our 20's anymore! :D So no, am not having neck pain. Actually I felt quite good after the 52 mile ride yesterday which took over 5 hours in the saddle. Mostly highway riding.

I found that if anything, the shoving back of the saddle helped me feel more comfortable all over! I know it doesn't seem to make sense, but that how it is. I'm more behind the pedals now instead of right on top of them. I feel like I have more power and can also relax more. Hard to describe well.

I actually don't like riding on the hoods. i think it is realy uncomfortable for my hands and I guess i jsut don't like the way it makes me slope forward.


But I do like riding in the drops! I like the way it lets my bodyy just fall into it.

Does anyone have any recommendations for making the hoods more comfortable?

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Originally Posted by madscot13

But I do like riding in the drops! I like the way it lets my bodyy just fall into it.

Does anyone have any recommendations for making the hoods more comfortable?

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Yes, that's how it feels to me now- like just falling/relaxing into to the drops- very comfy!

I was just thinking yesterday on how to make the hoods more comfortable on my hands. I decided they should make the top point more like a nice ball instead of a pointed end- that way we could hold it like a stick shift ball end instead of jamming our hand there between fingers and thumb.

I was sitting outside a store watching our bikes yesterday while DH was inside shopping. A man with a 5 year old passed by and the little girl poiunted at DH's bike and said "Daddy, look!- a bicycle with HORNS!" :eek: :D :D :D
Made me think....

I find that not only does my neck hurt a little, but to lean so far forward and down, even using my core to curve my spine right, I find the seat mashing my tender bits. what gives? :confused:

I have always preferred the drops.

As I have lowered my stem, my belly has become the problem... another incentive to keep shedding the weight.

It is much less work on the drops if you can get comfy there - you present less wind resistence, and therefore don't work as hard to get somewhere slightly quicker.

Sliding my seat back a fraction made my ride more comfy too - and I mean a fraction - I think it was about 1 - 1.5 cms!

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Originally Posted by Kitsune06

I find the seat mashing my tender bits. what gives? :confused:

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Hooch back a bit on the seat a bit so your sit-bones are in a different place on the seat.

I don't just lean down to the drops, I alter my position on the saddle to...

Otherwise... hmmm? Arnica pillues? :cool:

Lisa, which saddle were you riding before and which are you riding now, that has a 1.5" difference in saddle position. That is HUGE. While I love my Brooks Finesse saddle, I really struggle to get it far back enough. I solved it with a very laid back seatpost, but I am curious how it would feel to go back even further.

Moving the saddle back means that your legs and core can hold your upper body weight when you bend over. If your legs are directly under your saddle, then only your arms are holding you up. It's like if you are standing up and bend at the waist - your butt has to moves back or you'd fall on your face. Then it depends on the placement of the bars (height, drop, reach) as to whether your comfy spot is in the drops or the hoods or elsewhere. But you want to be comfortable enough on both to use the hoods on a climb and the drops on a descent.

I have been attempting to ride in the drops for awhile with no luck. My arms are short. Reaching the brakes from the drops means my face too close to the handle bars. Bars are already pretty high because of short arms.

I'll have to try the seat slide back. Hmmm.

sarah

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Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl

Lisa, which saddle were you riding before and which are you riding now, that has a 1.5" difference in saddle position. That is HUGE. While I love my Brooks Finesse saddle, I really struggle to get it far back enough. I solved it with a very laid back seatpost, but I am curious how it would feel to go back even further.

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Tri,
I talked about the two different saddles and their rail lengths in this thread:
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=12921
I had the "S" model which has shorter nose and shorter rails, "for women".
Now I have a non-women's Brooks, which has WAY longer rails (and longer nose).
Yes, I really DID get a 1 1/2" shove back amount- and I love it!

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Originally Posted by DebW

Moving the saddle back means that your legs and core can hold your upper body weight when you bend over. If your legs are directly under your saddle, then only your arms are holding you up. It's like if you are standing up and bend at the waist - your butt has to moves back or you'd fall on your face. Then it depends on the placement of the bars (height, drop, reach) as to whether your comfy spot is in the drops or the hoods or elsewhere. But you want to be comfortable enough on both to use the hoods on a climb and the drops on a descent.

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That is EXACTLY what the bike fit guy said! I had always thought that moving the seat backwards would put more weight on your hands. But after he explained it (what you said) it made perfect sense.

I think I'm going to try moving my seat back. Maybe that will put me in a more comfortable position while in the drops.

Carbon seatpost and no torque wrench...I hate having to take my bike to the LBS for every little adjustmnet...but I'm scared to death that I'll over-tighten and break the seatpost. Guess it's time to invest in a torque wrench. I bought a Richey Torqkey that is preset for the handlebars but it won't work on the seatpost. :mad:

In the not-so-distant past, I could ride in the drops on downhills without a problem, but on the flats it was really not very pleasant. I could do it for an effort for a short time, but really I didn't like it.

I was fitted on my bike and it was confirmed that my cockpit (handlebars/stem) was just too big and too far. I now have new handlebars (38 instead of 41cm!!!) and they have a very short reach to the hoods and shallow drops. The drops are now a very comfy place to be in, I don't mind staying in there for as long as necessary.

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Originally Posted by Lisa S.H.

Tri,
I talked about the two different saddles and their rail lengths in this thread:
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=12921
I had the "S" model which has shorter nose and shorter rails, "for women".
Now I have a non-women's Brooks, which has WAY longer rails (and longer nose).
Yes, I really DID get a 1 1/2" shove back amount- and I love it!

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I read this thread w great interst. Can you take a picture of the B68. I am trying to understand how it might compare to my finesse since I also don't have a B17s to compare it to. Perhaps a close up of side view so we can see how far the rails go relative to where the saddle curves.

remember, if you move your saddle back, you need to lower your seatpost as well. moving your saddle back will increase your leg extension (the distance from your hip to the pedal), so to counter that and still have the proper leg extension you'll need to drop your saddle as well.

did I just say the same thing in two different sentences? sorry!

This is really interesting as I don't really ride in the drops, but would like to.

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Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl

I read this thread w great interst. Can you take a picture of the B68. I am trying to understand how it might compare to my finesse since I also don't have a B17s to compare it to. Perhaps a close up of side view so we can see how far the rails go relative to where the saddle curves.

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http://www.wallbike.com/b68.html


http://www.wallbike.com/jpgs/b68.jpg

http://www.wallbike.com/B17.html



http://www.wallbike.com/jpgs/b17narab.jpg

Mimi, note that is the picture of the B17 NARROW, not the regular B17.
The link you posted does show the different types of B17's though.
Sorry, can't find pix of the undersides of the various Brooks.

Thanks, mimi, but what I am trying to see are the undersides, where the usable part of the rails end relative to the back of the saddle. Maybe its easier to just take that measurement. I checked all the brooks online stuff and they don't show the undersides. Don't worry Lisa, if its too much trouble I can ask the guys at wall bikes to measure it for me. I am just intrigued now about the B68, but it is soooo muuch heaver than my finesse so I want to know if it will really make a difference.

Caribe81 posted some pix of her B17 "S" saddle here:
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showt...t=14586&page=3
There is one shot that shows the straight (useable) section of the under rails with the clamp on. Keep in mind that the NON-S B17 has much longer straight section of rail- the part you can slide back and forth to adjust.
The B68 non-S has the longer rails as well. The Brooks S models are shorter and their rails are shorter.

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Originally Posted by li10up

I'm trying to ride in the drops more often. Currently I rarely get in the drops -it's just not very comfortable. I've noticed that when I go from the hoods to the drops it seems harder to pedal...I'm staying in the same gear. When I went into my LBS the other day to get their opinion on rotating my handlebars forward to alleviate hand and arm numbness (which worked BTW) the bike fitter said he thinks I need to move my saddle back. I'm not having any knee issues so I'm a little leery of doing that. But, could moving my saddle back give me more power in the drops?

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It seems you may need to find a new LBS and get a proper bike fit. Just moving things randomly won't solve the problem, but generally give you more. Bike fit is very important for comfort, power, and efficiency. Your saddle type may have something to do with it, but a fitter will look at you seat height, tilt, and fore/aft, reach, stem length and handlebar drop, as well as handlebar width, and even saddle width. Most fittings run around $150 and well worth it for anyone riding more then once a week.

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Originally Posted by SR500

It seems you may need to find a new LBS and get a proper bike fit. Just moving things randomly won't solve the problem, but generally give you more. Bike fit is very important for comfort, power, and efficiency. Your saddle type may have something to do with it, but a fitter will look at you seat height, tilt, and fore/aft, reach, stem length and handlebar drop, as well as handlebar width, and even saddle width. Most fittings run around $150 and well worth it for anyone riding more then once a week.

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I'll second that. I've posted a few times in the last couple of months, raving about the differences I've felt since my fitting. In my case, extending the steerer tube to raise the bars was what made the difference and allowed me to get comfortable in the drops. A good fitter will definitely think of options that you might not, and can watch you pedal to make sure that those changes are really appropriate for you. If you're concerned with power, a fitter that uses something like the Computrainer Pro will also be able to guage fluctuations in your watt output based on the changes made to your fit.

This whole thread is really interesting.

I'll second the comments about the importance of a fitting. On my first road bike I was really uncomfortable in the drops (neck pain from over reaching- and I was reaching too far to feel stable). At the fitting I had done a few years ago- they moved the seat forward and the bars back- it was amazing how much more comfortable the drops were when I could actually REACH them.