Speed in paceline vs. solo ride

I now this whole speed issue causes a bit of "It depends on..."
but GENERALLY SPEAKING how much does your speed vary from when you are in a paceline to when you ride solo?

In my case my average speed (as shown on the computer at the end of my ride) when in a pack or paceline is somewhere around 16.0 - 16.6 mph. Whereas when I ride by myself my average speed is about 14.5.

Is this the norm or are you able to maintain higher speeds when you ride solo? I'm always so disappointed when my avg. speed is in the 14 mph range when riding solo...I just can't seem to get it up to 15 mph on my own.

It DEPENDS on the paceline also. The number of riders and the strengths of each. It depends, it depends, it depends.

Go ride.:p

By myself I can keep a pace of about 17 to 19 mph.

In a bigger group of 5 or more strong riders I can keep a steady pace of 22 or even 23 and manage to take my turn at lead.

In smaller groups, my pace tends to be around the same as solo riding or just a touch faster.

You are able to maintain a much higher speed in a pace line. Each person spends a very short time on the front while everyone else behind the lead rests in the paceline. The person on the front "breaks the wind" or creates a shadow where others just draft.

Depending on the speed, the person at the head may burn 20-30% more energy to maintain the speed.

This is why most of the solo breakaways get sucked back and spit out the back of the peloton. Rarely can a solo breakaway make it stick.

And if you want to go faster then you need to train smarter. Best to join a local racing club. ;)

Oh like Sadie says it depends on the pace line too.

Like the ability of each rider in the pace line. Are you the strongest or the weakest in the group. How do each rider match up with each other ability wise...

And remember that wind resistance is proportional to the square of speed. Thus fast riders will get more benefit from a paceline than slower riders. The real world is nonlinear.

And in my experience - smaller riders get more benefit from a draft too! at 5' even I get a draft off off just about anyone - though few can effectively draft from me....
In general working in a paceline will result in your going faster than you could solo, especially if you are working with people of similar abilities to yourself or who know how to temper themsleves to the other riders in the line. One person who is too strong can really disrupt the pace if they surge when then get to the front.

I know that you can go faster in a paceline (drafting). I was just wondering the difference in your speeds. Do you drop 1,2,3 or more mph when you go it alone? I know it depends on the members in the paceline, etc. but generally speaking how much slower are you solo than when you are drafting?

It DEPENDS!!!!! Go back and read all of the variables above.

It also (still) depends on terrain - both in and out of a paceline.

How hilly is it? How actually windy is it? How well are you riding today? etc., etc., ad infinitum. I couldn't possibly tell you my average speed for solo rides, period. It depends. I can give you my average speed for specific rides I do. Which depends (mostly on how I am riding that day).

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Originally Posted by SadieKate

It DEPENDS!!!!! Go back and read all of the variables above.

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Come on SK. You need to give a number. None of this depends stuff. (I didn't think you needed those.) :p

Plus or minus 2 - 3 miles is my answer. Yes there are some pacelines I ride slower with. We're being social, not hammmering.

But really, ride your own ride.

And if you want to get faster do some intervals.

V.

MP you need Depends too? Gee whiz!

V.

Funny you mentioned about the wind...

It used to be that when I rode solo, I was always riding into a stiff head wind. It didn't matter if I turned around or not. And when I rode in a pace line, I didn't have that constant head wind into me :D :D :p

And yup, I always liked having one of my friend in front of me. She was 5' 9". And when I rode in a pace line with the boys, nobody wanted to be behind me :confused: :confused: why??? :D

I know that I pick up speed in a paceline, which is why I started riding with a faster paceline so I can pick up more speed. When riding by myself, I ride not too much slower than in a paceline, about 1-2mph slower.

Geez, what's wrong with you people!? I KNOW IT DEPENDS. I said generally speaking!!!!!!!! If you're going to give me an it depends answer when I already told you I know that it depends then why answer? For those of you who know, generally speaking, how much of a difference there is when you ride solo and when you draft, a favor of a reply is appreciated. I know that generally speaking I am 2 miles an hour slower - how about you?

Edit: While I was writing this 3 or 4 people replied...thank you.

okie dokie V..

Pace line speed 26-29MPH (4 crazy women hammering away)
solo for 2-8miles no hills 23-26MPH (this was when I used to ride seriously)
longer distance solo 18-20MPH.

now days I just meander and stop to smell the roses :p :p

smilingcat

Wow! I think you need to lighten up. :D But I guess that depends...

V.

PS I forgot that when I follow Bubba, MR. MP or HotRod, I go much faster. Yowza those are some fine calves!

PPS My honey has nice calves, but he always drafts me!

Case made. It depends on who I'm drafting.

I've ridden in pacelines where I'm the strongest rider. We do not go any faster than my solo pace.

You want a number? Anywhere between 0-10* mph. I've experienced the entire spectrum. That help? :rolleyes:

*10 mph is not an exaggeration. A group of 40+ guys on the flats headed for the barn ride durn fast.

Respectfully I think they are saying it depends because throwing out a random number really isn't going to help you at all. I couldn't give you a number as to tell you the truth I really have no idea. Sometimes I can hammer along alone faster than I usually paceline at, sometimes speeds that I would normally say are slow feel incredibly hard even in a paceline. Sometimes I could go faster than the paceline if I wanted to, but the bigger question would be how long could I keep that up? So unless the pace of the group is pushing you to your limit and you are going to blow up (which then will result in your falling off the back and moving even more slowly than you would have if you stayed by yourself and kept a steady pace...... etc. - get the idea how variable something like this can really be.....), you probably will be able to travel faster in the paceline. If you aren't traveling faster you'll probably get to your destination less tired. How much faster????? who knows.

yeah and +1 for Sadie Kate - who you are drafting totally makes a difference. My powerful 6'4" husband gives me a much better speed lift than one of my 5' team mates ever could....

SK, Actually that does help, even though you were being sarcastic. I never would have guessed that a recreational rider (although I believe you are one of the stronger riders on this forum - I think you race too, don't you?) could gain that much of a benefit from a draft...10 mph would be awesome.

Smilingcat - d@mn.......that is fast!

So, it looks like I have some fun times ahead if I stick with this. Riding at nearly 30 miles an hour blows my mind.

Thanks V...I'll try to lighten up.

You've got to really train if you're going to be in the 20 - 30 mph zone.

But it's possible. In one race I do, my average speed for 115 miles is generally 20 - 22 mph. But that's a flat race. So back to terrain. It depends.

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Originally Posted by smilingcat

okie dokie V..

Pace line speed 26-29MPH (4 crazy women hammering away)
solo for 2-8miles no hills 23-26MPH (this was when I used to ride seriously)
longer distance solo 18-20MPH.

now days I just meander and stop to smell the roses :p :p

smilingcat

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I want to be you when I grow up. The ability to do those speeds just blows me away. I'm trying not to get TOO fixated with speed, but wow.

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Originally Posted by li10up

(although I believe you are one of the stronger riders on this forum - I think you race too, don't you?)

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No and not really.

I don't consider myself one of the stronger riders, maybe just a more experienced recreational rider and more technically/mechnically savvy than average. I only race informal 10 mile time trials and the odd team tri when I have a hankerin'.

It takes a lot of very strong riders to maintain a 10+ mph boost. It also takes skill and wits to be safe in those increased speeds. Truthfully, a pace line doesn't make you a faster rider because the faster speeds of a paceline are artificial. You aren't generally working as hard as you would solo so you have to train, train, train -- and you have to learn how to handle a paceline. Pacelines are only a way to maximize resources for the one ride.

Off to change my Depends . . . .

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Originally Posted by Eden

yeah and +1 for Sadie Kate - who you are drafting totally makes a difference. My powerful 6'4" husband gives me a much better speed lift than one of my 5' team mates ever could....

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However, the men I know say they'd rather draft a woman anyday. I believe it has to do with the view.

BTW, SK's #1 rule for choosing a husband - must be large enough to provide a good draft.:p

If you want to go at my speed. Its a lot of hard serious training.

You will have to ride minimum of 250 miles a week. Not at leisurely pace but at >70% max HR.

Do lots if intervals. Do sets of hill climbs. Spin exercises. weights (not heavy but go for repetition.)

You don't have a life when you train more than 20 hours a week. BF?? WHO?? WHAT??

I used to joke with my brother in law about how often we would have to replace chains and throw away the worn out clusters. I went through atleast one set of chain and a set of cluster per season. My brother in law was even better, he went through a complete road bike per season. Got to be pretty expensive even when he got the parts at cost. :(

What I've noticed is that I ride harder and faster when I'm riding with a paceline, esp when there's bad wind (which there usually is here) just to keep up, but I tend to ride with guys, like, 99% of the time because there really aren't many girls here to ride with. :(
I think that pacelines are great for increasing your speed by riding with people faster than you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SadieKate

You want a number? Anywhere between 0-10* mph. I've experienced the entire spectrum. That help? :rolleyes:

*10 mph is not an exaggeration. A group of 40+ guys on the flats headed for the barn ride durn fast.

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For me it's up to 15 miles an hour difference. Our Tuesday night team ride averages about 31 mph for 40 miles. It's flat and the boys that pull are strong. We start with about 50 riders and we get shelled out one by one! :D :D

Jeni

Did a century this weekend with five other guys. Averaged 17.3. We had a terrible head for most of the ride. I would have never made it the whole 100 miles without them and I wouldn't have gone near as fast.

Look at it this way- your speed increased because you were drafting. If you can ride solo and only lose about 2mph i'd say thats not too bad

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Originally Posted by zencentury

Look at it this way- your speed increased because you were drafting. If you can ride solo and only lose about 2mph i'd say thats not too bad

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Thanks Zen...from the sounds of it we need to try to push it a bit more during our group rides. Although, we do go anywhere from 18 to 22 mph on the flat sections...still at the end of the ride the avg. speed shown on my computer is in the 16.5 mph range.

Well, since you're doing 20-30 percent less work while drafting than on your own, shouldn't the difference, if you're going as hard as you can in both situations, be 20-30 percent? I guess this only pertains to drafting, and not rotating to the front.

Pure speculation:

If I work my @$$ off really hard on my own, on very flat grounds, assuming no wind, I can manage to hold maybe 30 km/h (imagining a road with no obstacle) for about an hour.

If I work the same way but instead of being alone I'm holding to my boyfriend's wheel for my dear life, we achieve about 37-38 km/h on the same flat road with no obstacles. (He's working hard too, but not TERRIBLY hard. I, on the other hand, will need to eat a whole bear - rare, please - at the end of that hour, with a cold beer if possible! :D .) We've done that a couple of times.

So the 20-30% estimate is about right from my experience.

I read somewhere that there was some - minimal - positive effect for the person pulling at the front, something like 5-10%.

Now if it's a club ride, even if we're on a paceline, there's lots of variables to consider: who's there, how experienced they are, what terrain we're on, how chatty we are, how hard was the race the week before, etc. We rarely go more than 2-5 km/h faster than I would go on my own.