Bouncing on the saddle and overspinning at high cadence

Ok, I'm pretty new to cycling and am wondering if there is some lack of technique I can blame this on. When I pedal at a higher cadence (85+) and am pushing a low (easy gear) I feel like I am overspinning and bouncing from side to side on my saddle - ie. I have little control of my legs. My solution has been to up a gear to increase the resisitance but I think maybe this is the wrong thing to do as I am trying to teach myself to ride with a higher cadence and after a while in the harder gear my legs get pretty tired.

I have been doing some one leg drills on the trainer and sometimes find (particularly at the end of the session or if I'm tired) that the top (10 - 1 o'clock position) of the pedal action on both legs is not very smooth. It feels like maybe I start the down stroke too early or something like that as my foot sort of clicks over at the top and is not a smooth action like the rest oof the cycle.

I am riding clipless by the way. Is this bouncing and overspinning a beginner problem or does everyone experience it? If it can be fixed, is it something I can improve by doing certain drills or will it just take time?

Umm hmmm..I'm searching through the info given to us for training..

It just says to focus on keeping your hips steady...

I keep my cadence high on my morning rides but never seem to bounce. I have no idea what i'm actually doing with my feet & legs but if i see my cadence go over 100 then i gear up.

I hope there's someone out there that can give us a proper answer as i know this post probably hasn't helped!

Sorry beetle..:o

C

If you're bouncing at 85rpm, that makes me wonder if your saddle is too low. Like crazycanuck, I can spin over 100rpm before my hips begin to bounce. If your leg isn't stretched out enough at the bottom of the pedal stroke, then there'd definitely be an upward push on the hips at the top of the stroke even at lower cadences (Does that make sense?). Do you have an LBS that could check your fit?

I agree with Kalidurga that you should have your local bike shop spend time to do a bike fit with you. This is a process that can take a little time so it's usually best to call ahead of time and make an appointment. Depending on the extent of the fit session there can be a charge for the service so be sure to ask about that. If this isn't an option for you then just Google for "bike fit" and get a friend with more cycling experience than you to help check some of the adjustments.

It takes training to increase your pedal cadence. You won't be able to be a 70 rpm rider on Monday and a 90 rpm rider on Tuesday! You have to develop your muscles and nervous system and aerobic energy system to sustain higher cadences. Best way to do this is by interval training. For cadence work I find it is easiest to do the training on a stationary bike (I also train with a fixed gear bike, but most people don't use on of those). You can find a number of cadence interval drills on line.

Perhaps more important than cadence speed is the form of your pedal stroke. You can pedal very quickly if point your toe down but you'll lose power in your stroke. When you pedal, focus on pulling back instead of pushing down. In other words, at the bottom of your pedal stroke think about trying to scrape gum or mud off the bottom of your shoe.

So get that bike fit checked out, focus on good pedaling form, use interval training to increase your cadence rpm, and most of all, just enjoy riding your bike!

-traveller

Ditto on the saddle issue... Everything works together to produce ideal body mechanics, smooth pedal strokes, stable core... But it would be tough to keep your hips and core stable if they weren't positioned right. When I first got my roadbike, after a bit I notice that I too wobbled when I got into higher RPMs... I took it in to the shop and he tweaked my saddle height. I don't remember which way it went though. I don't wobble any more.

I've always heard and read that having the saddle too high causes your hips to bounce back and forth, trying to compensate for the reach. And it's especially pronounced at higher cadences. If you can't take the bike in for a fit, I'd try lowering your saddle just a tiny bit. It doesn't take much to make a difference. Try just a 1/4 inch. See how it feels. When you find the height that works for you, mark that place on your saddle so you can always find it.

Also, keep working on your spinning. It takes time to develop a smooth pedal stroke. Think circles as you pedal. Even pressure on the pedals the entire revolution of your legs. Easier said than done, but it gets to be second nature eventually.

BTW, a cadence of 85+ is a good place to be. If you can keep that up, and work on your pedal stroke, you are on way to some great cycling!

Annie

Just reinforcing the "get your seat height checked" message.

If that is fine, then the bouncing should rectify itself as your legs get smoother at pedalling a high cadence.

But first stop is def your bike fit. :)

If your saddle is too high you will experience more hip rocking, but not really "bouncing".
The only time I experience bouncing is when I shift into a lower front gear too soon without bringing the back gears closer- thus spinning way too fast and bouncing way too much. It just means I'm in TOO LOW a gear for the moment and I upshift in the back until I smooth into the right pace.
If your back gear is in the easiest position, don't upshift into your middle ring in front until you have shifted out of your easiest back gear by a couple of gears.

It takes time (and training) to learn to spin a high cadence. What you're experiencing is natural for a new cyclist and most likely isn't related to bike fit at all.

To train yourself to spin a higher cadence, start in small increments. Find your natural cadence (the cadence you would spin if you were just riding with no biofeedback about your cadence). Then, for five minute intervals, try to add 5-10rpms. Recover and repeat. Soon your natural cadence will be higher.

If you're bouncing, it most likely indicates a lack of muscular strength (natural with a beginner). Because you're not strong enough to spin a high cadence with a harder gear, you spin an easier gear than you can biomechanically control (ie you bounce).

Thanks everyone for your replies and advice which seems to follow a common thread. It's good to hear that if I'm persistent I should improve. I think I will get my fit checked at my next service, I'm pretty sure it's right as the LBS did it just 4 months ago but no harm in getting it looked at just in case.

3 things to add outside of what everybody has said about saddle height:

1) if you're new than you probably haven't developed high cadence pedalling techinque yet. it takes time and time is the only way to build it! practice practice practice. before you know it your avg cadence will increase from week to week on your rides.

2) one thing that works for me to smooth out my pedalling at higher cadence is to focus on keeping my heels down a little bit from wherever they were. it's a natural tendency to pedal "toe down" as your cadence increases. if i focus in keeping my heels down so my feet are flatter (note: by flatter i mean relative to the "toe down" position, not actually level) than what my feet do automatically, it's much more smooth and i actually have a higher power output via my powertap.

3) what also works for me in keeping a smooth rhythm if i'm riding tempo or doing an interval, i focus on the top half of the pedal stroke. i think it's Lemond(?) that says to think about scraping something off of the bottom of your shoe and pull your foot back at the bottom of the pedal stroke. for me it's the opposite that works better. i focus on pulling across the top as if i could pull my foot directly from the 9 o'clock to the 3 o'clock position. it makes more sense to think of it this way anyway because when people do one-legged drills - where's the dead spot? at the top! so why not focus on pulling your leg/foot across the top and this easily eliminates that problem and gives you a fluid pedal stroke.

:)

I don't know if this will help, but in a martial arts class I took many, many years ago, we would practice kicks very slowly so that we could concentrate on proper form before beginning to put power into the kick. This lets us develop the corresponding muscles and form muscle memory. Our instructor insisted we learn proper technique from the get go since it's a lot harder to try to unlearn bad habits that form from not learning it in the first place.

Keeping this in mind I did a training ride where I was pedaling at a low rpm because like you I was having similar issues of my pedal stoke not feeling even and my form falling apart at higher cadences (and I knew it wasn't fit issues). I did okay at 72 rpm, but any faster and I felt bouncy. I pedaled at a slow enough cadence(~55rpm for me) where I could pay attention to my form and how much pressure I was applying throughout the pedal stroke. I practiced this for a while 'til I felt confident that I had the form down. I really feel this has helped me greatly. I've been able to spin at a higher and higher cadence since without really thinking about it. On my last ride I averaged at 82rpm (max 97) without feeling like I was over spinning. Even DH, who is a seasoned cyclist, commented that my form looked very good. So IMHO it has worked for me.

I wanted to add, as others have mentioned, make sure it isn't a fit issue first. It's worth the expense of having a professional fit done.

Good luck and have fun!:)

~sg

so for my practice and drills should I stay in the gear/cadence that I'm overspinning/bouncing and try to smooth it out OR should I gear up to build up my muscle strength and where the pedalling feeling smoother and gear down as my pedalling improves

I've noticed the correlation between heels-down (correct) pedalling technique and stability in the saddle at higher rpms.

I have no idea to figure out how fast I'm spinning (do comps tell you that?) but know when i'm going 'fast' versus spinning 'slow'. This morning I noticed the bouncing thing on my commute. It was cold, and I wanted to go fast. When I shifted into another gear though, it felt too much like mashing. So I dropped my heels a bit, particularly during the upstroke, and immediately noticed a difference. I'll have to work on doing this technique naturally, but at least I've had a bit of a lightbulb!

K.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beetle

so for my practice and drills should I stay in the gear/cadence that I'm overspinning/bouncing and try to smooth it out OR should I gear up to build up my muscle strength and where the pedalling feeling smoother and gear down as my pedalling improves

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don't get too technical with it. do whatever you want! (remember: this is supposed to be fun :p ) in the end i don't think it matters much because either way - you're improving your efficiency at pedalling at higher cadences.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beetle

so for my practice and drills should I stay in the gear/cadence that I'm overspinning/bouncing and try to smooth it out OR should I gear up to build up my muscle strength and where the pedalling feeling smoother and gear down as my pedalling improves

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I did the latter because it just seemed more natural. I think you naturally tend to gain cadence speed as you ride more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kimmyt

I have no idea to figure out how fast I'm spinning (do comps tell you that?) but know when i'm going 'fast' versus spinning 'slow'. This morning I noticed the bouncing thing on my commute. It was cold, and I wanted to go fast. When I shifted into another gear though, it felt too much like mashing. So I dropped my heels a bit, particularly during the upstroke, and immediately noticed a difference. I'll have to work on doing this technique naturally, but at least I've had a bit of a lightbulb!

K.

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I made a little Excel cheat sheet that I taped to my stem. It looks like this but with black borders around each. I set my computer to elapsed time mode, so that it shows me a readout in seconds. I start counting the pedal revolutions when the seconds are on "1" and count for 10 seconds, or when the readout is at 10 seconds. When I am working on cadence, I will do this several times just to get the feel for whatever cadence I am running, then periodically check to see that I'm still running what I think I'm running. Of course you need to be in a place where you can ride for 10 seconds without worrrying about stops, traffic, pedestrians, etc. You don't want to be glued to the computer readout - just glance back and check it. And if you get distracted, just start again when conditions are right.

Here's what it looks like. But the actual table has lines and borders for easy reading.and I can't seem to duplicate that here.

12 72
13 78
14 84
15 90
16 96

And sure, I could just do the math in my head, but I found that having the thing taped to the stem reminds me to work on cadence periodically. Without the reminder, I'd probably never think to check it. My next computer will do this for me. :)

Martha

Quote:

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Originally Posted by withm

I made a little Excel cheat sheet that I taped to my stem. It looks like this but with black borders around each. I set my computer to elapsed time mode, so that it shows me a readout in seconds. I start counting the pedal revolutions when the seconds are on "1" and count for 10 seconds, or when the readout is at 10 seconds. When I am working on cadence, I will do this several times just to get the feel for whatever cadence I am running, then periodically check to see that I'm still running what I think I'm running. Of course you need to be in a place where you can ride for 10 seconds without worrrying about stops, traffic, pedestrians, etc. You don't want to be glued to the computer readout - just glance back and check it. And if you get distracted, just start again when conditions are right.

Here's what it looks like. But the actual table has lines and borders for easy reading.and I can't seem to duplicate that here.

12 72
13 78
14 84
15 90
16 96

And sure, I could just do the math in my head, but I found that having the thing taped to the stem reminds me to work on cadence periodically. Without the reminder, I'd probably never think to check it. My next computer will do this for me. :)

Martha

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ahhh very clever :cool:

I find I bounce when I am spinning fast but don't have adequate resistance -- easy to do on gentle downhills without changing gears. At some point, the faster the bike goes, the faster you can spin -- but at some point even your spin cadence won't match the speed of the bike in the given gear. If you can maintain the same fast cadence, try the next gear to add a bit of resistance and see if that doesn't help cure the bounce as well.