Making Left Turns and other questions

Hi,

I've been thinking about bike commuting to work every so often, but I keep fixating on all the difficult parts of the route. In particular, there a left turn I'm not sure how to deal with. The road is two driving lanes and two left turn lanes with a bike shoulder on the right. With the traffic flowing at 40-50 mph I see no way to get across the two lanes and over to the turn lanes. Should I attempt this or would I be better off crossing the intersection on the right and then setting up to go across from the big road on the cross street? If the latter, do I cross in front of the waiting cars and set up on the right to go across, or do I make the right turn onto the cross street and then loop around behind the waiting cars?

Do you generally commute on the road or do you also use sidewalks?

When there's a line of cars waiting at a light and you are going straight do you generally pull up behind the last car or do you ride alongside them on the right up to the light?

Thanks, Nicole

First Question: Do what is safe. If there is a break in traffic and you can get into the turn lane, get into the turn lane. If you can't get into the turn lane, cross the intersection and then turn left.

Second Question: My commute is road and bike path. In general bikes legally are supposed to be on the road. Use your judgment though. Again, do what is safe. If there are lots of pedestrians, I wouldn't use the sidewalk.

Third Question: Depends. I don't like sitting behind cars. They smell bad! If I can get to the front safely, I go to the front. I want to be at the front before the light changes, so the lead car knows I'm there before they move.

V.

I agree with Veronica (good answers, V!)
If it is a really nasty road, i will get to the sidewalk and push the "walk" button
and then either pedal or push my bike across the street.

On big hairy intersections where I know the cars are too fast/too many and too many lanes (4 lanes of traffic would definitely qualify for me!!!) I get off the bike and walk in the cross walks.

I commute on the road. The last time I rode on the sidewalk it was very dark and I didn't feel safe on the road. I went about 6 or 7 mph, and stopped at each cross street. Verrrrrrry carefully.

At a stoplight when there is a line of cars I pull up behind the last car. I get centered in the lane behind that car (my lane, my spot, everyone see me in it!) and stay centered until I'm thru the intersection. Then I'll move back to the right.

(around here in my small-ish part of town cyclists cutting to the front of the line at a stop light is kind of considered rude. Plus, a car or two at the front might be turning right and you don't want to end up next to them and have them turn into you. And if you sneak up on the right the cars you sneak up on might not see you.)

I agree with Knotted on this one. I have to cross one big intersection to get to work (not taking a left) and I take the lane. There are a lot of cars that turn left (but no left turn lane) so I make myself as visible as possible. I stand up when pedalling, make eye contact, and make sure they know what Im going to do. If your getting in the left lane, make people aware of that. If its just too nasty to get in the left turn lane, I would cross the intersection or use the cross walk. Better safe than sorry!

I also agree that you do what you feel is safe. There are also certain intersections that I get off my bike a walk across especially during rush hour. There are also times when I get behind cars while waiting for a red light, but that has taken some practice over the years. These are just my usual rides as I have not begun to commute yet.

~ JoAnn

Like others said, you have to weigh alot of factors along with what you feel comfortable with. On my commute home I have to make a left across 2 lanes of almost standstill traffic. The part where I would have to get into the left lane is so far away from the turn, due to this traffic, that I would be off an on my bike frequently. Also, the part where I would switch lanes is on or right before a large blind hill during which drivers might not be able to see me and could easily hit me. I am not a fan of riding on sidewalks, but here I will do it. I cross at a light that sees no traffic, so that I am usually the only vehicle going through the light, cut through a parking lot of a store, and ride on the sidewalk on the wrong side of the road (it is a narrow walk over a bridge with a cement barrier to my right seperating me from traffic) and then ride the sidewalk up to where I connect to a bike trail.

The other day SEPTA was doing construction and had closed the sidewalk, but I didn't realize this until I was on it and had to walk my bike up against oncoming traffic. It was not a good situation, but the only option I had. Next time I do the commute, I will probably ride on road through traffic and up to a stoplight, where depending on the traffic level, I will probably walk or ride my bike, do a U-turn and then make another left later on.

It is a messy situation, but the way I do it varies depending on traffic levels, road hazards (i.e. the construction), etc.

As to your last question, I do ride alongside them, I just make sure that there is plenty of room so that I don't have to veer into another lane suddenly.

Good luck!

K.

I try my best not to make cars pass me twice. So if I am going straight at a light, I will generally get behind the last car and take the lane. I don't want someone turning right in front of me. Halfway across the intersection, I get to the right again.

As for that road you described, I would probably walk it across. There's one section on my commute that is only one lane each way that I walk across on the way home. (On the way in, it's no problem because there's hardly any traffic there at 6 a.m.)

I try not to pass cars waiting at lights (we have no bike lanes -- that would be different) because I know it's annoying for them to wait behind me, then pass me, only to have to pass me again. Also, drivers around here are very lax with using turn signals. Granted, I'm not usually behind a long line of cars either, nor am I a particulary fast biker. I have done it in the past, but I'm trying to mend my ways. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MDHillSlug

Hi,

Do you generally commute on the road or do you also use sidewalks?

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Its illegal for bikes to use the footpath here, bikes are deemed to be vehicles and are supposed to obey road rules. Of course, a blind eye is turned to kids on bikes.

Having said that, the footpath is a great place at busy intersections.

As for interesctions, if I am in a middle lane, like the other gals here, I get behind the car I pull up behind, and stay in the centre of the lane til I am through the interesction and can move back to the side of the road.

If I am in the lane closest to the footpath and there is room, I bike up between the cars and path til I am parallel with the leading car and get across the intersection before the leading car is even moving.

Its a matter of having a go and finding out what feels right, and whenever in doubt at intersections, hop on the path if you can, or walk your way through it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MDHillSlug

Hi,

I've been thinking about bike commuting to work every so often, but I keep fixating on all the difficult parts of the route. In particular, there a left turn I'm not sure how to deal with. The road is two driving lanes and two left turn lanes with a bike shoulder on the right. With the traffic flowing at 40-50 mph I see no way to get across the two lanes and over to the turn lanes. Should I attempt this or would I be better off crossing the intersection on the right and then setting up to go across from the big road on the cross street? If the latter, do I cross in front of the waiting cars and set up on the right to go across, or do I make the right turn onto the cross street and then loop around behind the waiting cars?

Do you generally commute on the road or do you also use sidewalks?

When there's a line of cars waiting at a light and you are going straight do you generally pull up behind the last car or do you ride alongside them on the right up to the light?

Thanks, Nicole

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Yay Nicole for pondering the commute!
Here's a table summarizing MD/VA/DC bike laws: http://www.waba.org/areabiking/bikelaws.php
Yes - it is legal to ride on the sidewalk in Montgomery County, MD (but you must yield to pedestrians....DRAT! :rolleyes: ). Sometimes, it's the only viable, safe route. My route is a mix of road, path, and sidewalk.
When I have been faced with an intersection such as you described, I've taken the right-side left turn lane (does that make sense?) and went boogying with traffic. I assume your lanes have a left-turn arrow on green? But...I've only done that during non-rush hours. It's a different ballgame during the commute.
If it's difficult to even get to that lane, yeah, I'd get to that cross street and cross with them. Whether I scooted in ahead of them or circled around behind them would really depend on how big the cross street is and how many cars were there. Same with whether or not I take the lane and sit behind the last car or ride up along their right sides. Sometimes, I've done both these things at the same intersection on different occasions, depending on traffic. But, yeah, you've really got to watch the cars when you come up on their sides. People are notoriously BAD about using blinker lights!
It would be good for you to ride the route on the weekend so you can see how it might all flow. Plus, it gives you a chance to scope out alternative routes.
Good luck. Have you registered for BTW day or would you just do it on your own? I don't know if there's a pit-stop near where you work.
Regina

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Regina

Yay Nicole for pondering the commute!

Here's a table summarizing MD/VA/DC bike laws: http://www.waba.org/areabiking/bikelaws.php

Good luck. Have you registered for BTW day or would you just do it on your own? I don't know if there's a pit-stop near where you work.
Regina

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Thanks for the link

I didn't see any pitstops near me, so I'd do it on my own.

Nicole, I'm glad to hear you're still thinking of ways to commute on your bike. I'll add my 2 cents.

I don't line up behind cars, because around here I am not at all confident that all the cell-phone-talking, McDonalds-eating, makeup-applying idiots are paying enough attention to see me, and I don't want to get crushed between two cars. So I just ride up alongside them on the right and wait at a light to make sure the first car is going straight, or wait for them if they're turning. I've never seen anyone on a bike wait behind the line of traffic at a light, now that I think of it.

I think what annoys car drivers most is bikers riding in the traffic lane but not going the speed of traffic, so I always stay as far to the right as I safely can. I know there are many people who say "take the lane," but each of us has to evaluate our own traffic situation and do what is safe.

At a complicated intersection, I seldom dismount and walk across, but I do ride across one way and wait for the light to change and then cross the other street, because it just doesn't feel safe to be in the left turn lane with impatient drivers.

Hope you can find a way to make it work.

What do you think about riding on the bike shoulder against traffic for a long block? I think it will simplify this tricky corner. On the correct side of this road there's no crosswalk for the side street while there is on the other side.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MDHillSlug

What do you think about riding on the bike shoulder against traffic for a long block? I think it will simplify this tricky corner. On the correct side of this road there's no crosswalk for the side street while there is on the other side.

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What do you do if there's another cyclist coming at you - along with a bunch of traffic? Also, I imagine you could probably get a ticket for riding on the wrong side of the road. I know that, in some places, bicycle tickets are the same as car tickets. Same fines, same ding on your insurance, all that jazz.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MDHillSlug

What do you think about riding on the bike shoulder against traffic for a long block? I think it will simplify this tricky corner. On the correct side of this road there's no crosswalk for the side street while there is on the other side.

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Very dangerous in my opinion. Even more so approaching an intersection, you don't know who's going to come turning right on you (bike, ped, car...).

Even if it were legal, I would never ride on sidewalks, either. I don't want drivers to even start thinking of me as a pedestrian... Also I generally see sidewalks as a dangerous place for bikes, too far off to the right to be in the field of vision and field of conscience of drivers...

Never, never ride against the traffic. I take the lane to make lefts, get into the traffic a good distance ahead of the turn and stick my arm out. My friends make fun of me because when I'm signaling, I sort of shake my finger/hand to emphasize I'm turning. They say it's my school teacher scolding signal. I feel much safer in a line of cars as they usually give me a wide berth, rather than being pushed to the side of the road. I will get in a line of cars when going straight at an intersection, if I think there's a narrow space on the right. My husband on the other hand, rides right up along the cars in teeny tight spaces in horrible traffic. I can't do that!
I have gone up on a sidewalk a couple of times when I was at a very busy spot and saw that I couldn't get in the lane to turn. I stopped and then went straight across the intersection. However, there aren't sidewalks around where I live in too many places, so this really isn't an option.

Please don't ride against traffic.

If I have to go against traffic, I'd be up on the sidewalk, off the road (prob'ly walking).

Re: going against traffic:

Thanks for setting me straight. It's a bad idea. I don't know what I was thinking. :eek:

I recently went to a Confident City Cycling class sponsored by the League of American Bicyclists and the instructor said that it's always a bad idea to go against traffic. He also said to stay off the sidewalks as much as possible even though in VA you are allowed to be on the sidewalk. Overall, he said the two aforementioned actions are highly dangerous. I'm still trying to get my confidence to stay off the sidewalks. Slowly but surely, right?

Take a look at my thread where I ask to "always ride with traffice." Yesterday (in a car) we hit a cyclist going the wrong way.

Hi,

On my commute I have to turn right onto a 1 way two-drive-lane street, and then after two blocks make a left.

Is it OK for me to be riding in the left hand lane the whole way that two blocks until I turn left? It feels safer. But I can tell it annoys cars that I am not riding on the far right or right side where they are used to seeing cyclists. I usually take my own lane on the left and pedal like mad, just to be sure I'm keeping up with traffic while trying to avoid ticking anyone off.

Am I doing all I should do?

Good replies, here's my two øre: I "ride like a car" if at all possible, but it does depend on the speed of the other traffic. If I'm *significantly* slower, I would try to stay out of the way and maybe use a pedestrian crossing. If I'm just a bit slower I'll take the lane, make huge obvious hand signals, and make an effort to accelerate fast out of a stop.

I'll pass a line of cars standing still if I can see there's room for me at the front or side, but I always stop where I'm most visible to the closest car, usually just in front and to the right of them. I never pass cars on the right if they're moving or I suspect they'll start moving while I'm passing. In other words I only go to the front of a line at intersections I know well, and then I'll usually sneak ahead as far as I can ahead of the line, so that I will be the first "vehicle" across the intersection. This is the only traffic rule I tend to bend. Passing someone in an intersection isn't allowed here, so I do my best to be all the way past the intersection and over to the side before someone needs to pass me.

I agree with those that say you should stay in line when stopping at an intersection. If you are afraid of getting hit from behind then you could just stay in line but to the right of the car in front of you. I agree that we shouldn't make motorists pass us twice. If we don't anger them they are more likely to share the road...granted some a-holes will yell/honk no matter what. I figure they are just unhappy in general so I don't worry about them.

That said, I have moved to the front of the line on occasion and when I'm riding with others and that's what they do. But I try to be patient most days. :)

The following link was by posted League of American Bicyclists and although the article originates from the UK, the theory is applicable on this side of the pond too!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1695668.ece

I always wait my proper turn behind the line of cars at an intersection UNLESS I am going to turn right. Then I don't make my turn until it is VERY safe to do so.

Micki-
I would take the right into the right lane and stay near the right curb during my right turn in order to be safe during that maneuver. After the danger period of the right turn is done, I would start watching for openings. This is a several stage maneuver: from right curb area look for a safe moment to "take" the middle of the right lane. This will be during the first block. Start looking for a safe opening to enter the left lane. Signal your intentions. When you have the opening, TAKE the left lane in the middle and by this time you should be into your second block area, nearing your left turn zone. Start signaling your left turn coming up so the cars in back of you won't get too impatient before your turn. Stay in the MIDDLE of your left lane during your turn- otherwise some smarta** will try to pass you/cut you off on either side of you while you are making your left turn. Watch for someone trying it anyway. Cars love to try to pass bikes DURING turns.
If traffic is heavy and o openings present themselves at all before your left turn, just STOP and get off and WALK your bike across the street for your left turn. It's not worth your life.
Not actually seeing your setup there, I think this is how I would handle it.