Angry about today's club ride

Hi all,

So I went to ride with my local club today. I rode with them last year, and had a great time. Today was the second ride of the season, although last week's ride was pretty much rained out (only a few people showed up). I ride with the Light group, which is the easiest group, is no drop, and is for beginners.

Anyway, I am recovering from a knee injury, and am under doctor's orders not to ride too far (over about 25 miles), and not to ride much elevation. The ride today was billed as 28 miles, only a few hundred feet of climbing, I looked at the route sheet and it was clearly pretty flat, so I wasn't worried about it. Well....we get going, and the leader decides without consulting any of the group (about 20 people) to just do whatever the heck he wants, and we end up riding massive hills, totally off the route. I was so angry at about mile 20 that I started crying, 'cause I knew that tomorrow I'll be in some major pain, but there was nothing I could do about it because I didn't know where we were, there was no route sheet. The other ride leader talked to me about it and was totally understanding, but there wasn't anything she could do because the other ride leader is very domineering and wasn't consulting her. We did finally peel off and find a relatively flat way home, but I ended up riding 40 miles, lots of climbing. I heard other people saying (and they were mostly first timers/beginning riders) that they were so tired they didn't even have the strength to unclip. It was scary.

At the (nice) ride leader's suggestion, I'm going to email the president of our club. I feel that it's totally inappropriate to deviate that much from the printed route. It's my responsibility to decide beforehand whether I can do the ride, but how can I make that decision if I have no idea what ride we're doing? I am really furious. I came home, did lots of stretches, iced, and am just hoping that I'm not using a cane tomorrow. Fuming, hopping mad....

-Amy

I'd say the domineering ride leader was a major b*tthead and irresponsible!

He is. He treats the "Lights" like we're his little fiefdom, and I think no one else in the club wants to give up their Saturdays to lead us, so even though everyone in the club knows he's a nut case, they let him lead.

He is very good about instructing people on how to cycle well (shifting, pedalling, etc.), but sorely lacking in coaching on group riding skills, safety, etc. He told me today that he can hear the people in the back when they were saying "car back!" so it was disruptive for the rest of us to repeat it! How does he know that everyone could hear them? Plus, last year he basically wouldn't let me stop to drink on a couple of rides when it was over 90 degrees, said I had to learn to drink while riding. I ended up getting heat exhaustion twice (I have a camelbak now so that problem's resolved).

He's not a bad person, just drunk on power and clueless.

I think there is at least one of these in every club! I've had my encounter with my club's jerk captain and I typically will not participate in his rides (not that he cares but I choose not to subject myself to his inflated ego).

I'm sorry you had to endure this today. I hope you recover quickly.

A suggestion, why don't you volunteer to lead the beginners ride. Leading ride doesn't take a lot of experience, it just takes being willing to show up early, pass out maps, and ideally STICK to the planned route, periodically stopping to regroup. If you feel you are not fast enough, you can also 'lead from the back' , letting everyone know ahead of time where the regroup points are.

You know, Trisk, I thought about it, but not this year for a couple reasons-

1) I am going to skip a few of the rides, because they're too much climbing for my knee

2) I'll be in Italy for 3 weekends so would miss those rides, too :D

Also, leading in this club seems to require some mechanical ability, and I can barely change my own flats.

There are a couple of hundred people in my club, there's gotta be someone better suited then that guy. The co-leader (and pretty much everyone else in the club) just doesn't want to go head to head with the guy, so until the club confronts the issue he presents, nothing will change.

I will feel much better when I've had my say to the prez.

Wow! That really stinks! I'm glad you emailed the club president to let him know what happened.

Oh, I totally agree that he was wrong and you did the right thing. I just wanted to point out, without knowing the specifics of your situation, that even a bad ride leader is still a volunteer who is giving up his/her time, and that sometimes by getting involved ourselves can make a difference in our club. Clearly there is a problem with your club finding good people to lead these rides, so if it had made sense for you to volunteer, you could set a good example. In our club, each month the ride chair circulates the ride list to a group of regular ride leaders, and we volunteer for the rides we want to start. Some of us have a regular ride, others do it less frequently, so you only have to commit to one ride at a time. You could do it once a year or twelve+ times a year. In general, our slower riders tend to volunteer to lead the beginner rides, so people are not being forced to ride a pace that is not natural for them. Just a suggestion. But what a jerk, I hope you are not in as much pain as you are expecting tomorrow!

Ace, THAT SUCKS!!! Bless your heart, oh I hope you are icing that knee, and taking it easy.....excuse my language but what a bunch of crap!!
See, that is EXACTLY why we decided not to go on this new group ride in 2 weeks, and wait and train and do the half century at our pace in June.
I am sorry that happend, it's just not right. But, it brings up a topic I was actually going to address.
What is the deal when you are riding, if you pass a fellow cyclist, most will wave, but some just act as if....."I don't see you I'm WAY to above!!"
That is the ONLY thing I don't like about this sport is the holier then thou attitude, it really pisses me off!!
Everyone starts at the bottom, EVERYONE, and we ALL have to work or repair our selves back up!!

The guy sounds like a bit of a jerk, but did you try talking to him about this? Or is he one of those people that treats every suggestion like a personal insult?

And I disagree - leading a ride, especially a beginner's ride, requires a lot of skill, because what you should be doing as part of the ride is teaching your beginners cycling skills. Any fool can ride in a straight line, but how about emergency braking, bunny hops, bunch etiquette, stuff like that?

The other suggestion I would make is to take a map so if you decide you can't continue, you at least know how to find your way back.

This is so irresponsible! What an a******. On our first AMC ride, which was billed as 15 average speed, the leader just went ahead so fast, it was unbelievable. And it was 90 degrees out. My husband caught him and had to reel him in. It was so bad that everyone else but 5 of us went off with the sweep and formed a different group. We kept him in line after that, but that is when we decided we could be leaders.I do think it takes a great deal of interpersonal skills to be a leader, in addition to bike skills. We had to take a 5 day outdoor leadership course, which included a weekend at a camp. It was geared for leading hikes, but the interpersonal stuff certainly applied. My mechanical skills are pretty limited also, so I only lead rides with my husband, or I find a co-leader who has good mechanical skills. It is worth it when everyone thanks you.

Thanks for the support and the suggestions. I'll let you know what the prez says (I haven't emailed him yet- I wanted to cool down first).

The guy is not someone you can talk to. He is a very weird guy, just completely full of ego. I did tell him before we started riding that I had a knee injury, was taking it slow, and could not do significant hills. He obviously didn't care. When he heard I was hurt and angry, he offered to push me up one of the hills going back, and seemed angry at ME when I refused...but by that time the damage had been done, and I was honestly afraid of punching him if he got near me.

Ace - that group leader was completely irresponsible. I'm sorry that you are suffering the consequences of his BS. I'm glad you will be e-mailing the prez. They need to know about these things. There won't be any more beginners if he keeps on like this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ace

I did tell him before we started riding that I had a knee injury, was taking it slow, and could not do significant hills...When he heard I was hurt and angry, he offered to push me up one of the hills going back, and seemed angry at ME when I refused...

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How are you feeling this morning????

You did the right thing, he did the wrong thing.

The "push you up the hill" comment gives a lot of insight into him.

BUT, I also know it's hard to really manage and discipline 'volunteers'.

I'm a real stickler for delivering what is advertised and you're fair in expecting that from them as well.

I got a nice response from the club prez, I've pasted it below with my response to him.

Happy to report my knee feels really good today- turns out that ride did me no harm, but that's not the point.

______________
Thanks for your quick reply, Al- much appreciated. I'm sure it will get resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

Maybe if so many of the new riders are not real beginners, they should be encouraged to ride with the Humanes, so that we can still maintain a true Light group. What I really want to avoid is feeling bullied/ashamed because of my ability (or lack thereof!). My goal is to improve, but like everyone else, I gotta do it at my own pace!

Best,
Amy

.............................
Amy, read your note and wish to thank you for letting us know your feelings. I will surely address the situation and we will hopefully resolve the issues. To help avoid this happening in the future I am going to suggest that prior to a ride, the ride cordinators, state their desire to change the route and this will give those who have a problem, with the suggested changes, to speak up and get issues resolved.

Thanks again for apprising me of the situation..

Al

It's good you said something, but it would have been better to talk to the person directly instead of going through the prez.

I know it's hard but every time you do it, you grow.

Actually, alpinerabbit, I don't think you can know what would have been "better" for me to do, since I was there, and you were not.

I did talk to him directly, at least to tell him my knee was a mess and that I was angry he'd deviated from the route. His response was to offer to push me up the hill. When I declined, he got mad at me. He is not a person willing to listen to any criticism whatsoever.

I know this guy well from having ridden with him every Saturday last summer. Pushing the discussion with him would have been pointless. It was the other group leader who suggested I talk directly to the president, not to the jerk. I am not an avoidant person at all, and will generally speak my mind in a direct manner, when it is appropriate (as evidenced by my direct response to you!).

I'm glad to hear you're none worse for the wear today, but like you said that's NOT the point. I would be angry as well as intimidated were I a very new rider to the group and the ride leader take off completely from the stated/mapped route without my prior knowledge possibly leaving me stranded in the middle of nowhere not knowing where I was or how to get back to where I started from. I'm glad you said something to the president of the club. Someone doing something like that wouldn't make me feel very welcome to come back for a second ride. Of course most of the CIBA rides I've gone to locally, I end up riding for the most part by myself and my big gripe is when there are to be SAG stops available and on the rare occasion I don't have ample extra food or water with me because I thought it was to be available the SAG leaves before I get to the stop. It has happened to me a couple times and I did complain to both the people who were listed as being the ride leaders/SAG providers (I actually saw the SAG pull away minutes before I got to the stop on one occasion and rolled up to find nothing but a pile of melting ice where the SAG was to have been) I've also posted my complaints on the local forum for the club where it turns out I wasn't the only one with those concerns. Of course there were those who are/were much like this guy appears to be that say well if you can't keep up why are we supposed to babysit etc. I've mentioned that if they don't want anyone but a certain speed or bike type to come to the rides they need to state that you're on your own as far as support goes.. Here's your map good luck, good riddance :mad:

ace --- sounds you did the right thing. This 'so called' leader thinks he's something - 'going to push you up the hill'. I would be angry too.

Ace, riding solo doesn't sound so bad after your group ride report. I'm thankful your knee is o'k today.

DUDE!
:eek: :eek: :eek:

What a stupid a$$, arrogant mo. :mad: Where's the smiley with teeth/fangs??

This is with the yellow jackets? Seems so outta character for them and seems to go against their whole club philosophy.

Yes, the OYJ is generally a great group. The thing with this leader is he really isn't a bad person, just lacking in empathy/sense or something. I think he thought he was paying us all a big compliment. He said a couple of times that this was the highest level beginner's group he's ever had, so I think he thought by having us ride the harder route, he was saying something positive about us. That's partly why this is so hard....I know he didn't mean any harm. But I really can't give him that degree of control over my life- just letting him decide what route we're going to do every week without conferring with anyone (and I know he'll do just that if the club president doesn't speak to him).

I think there's some conflict about the club philosophy. The leader said that the point of the Light group is to transition people to better groups. But it's a social riding club, not a competitive club, so I don't really see why if I want to keep riding shorter slower rides why I shouldn't be able to do that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by roguedog

DUDE!
:eek: :eek: :eek:

What a stupid a$$, arrogant mo. :mad: Where's the smiley with teeth/fangs??

This is with the yellow jackets? Seems so outta character for them and seems to go against their whole club philosophy.

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Here's a good one for this... http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...minghl1sc2.gif

Then there is this one, but I think the first one is more appropriate.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...pythoughts.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by matagi

The guy sounds like a bit of a jerk, but did you try talking to him about this? Or is he one of those people that treats every suggestion like a personal insult?

And I disagree - leading a ride, especially a beginner's ride, requires a lot of skill, because what you should be doing as part of the ride is teaching your beginners cycling skills. Any fool can ride in a straight line, but how about emergency braking, bunny hops, bunch etiquette, stuff like that?

The other suggestion I would make is to take a map so if you decide you can't continue, you at least know how to find your way back.

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Sorry, I just had to say something. "Any fool can ride in straight line" I beg to differ I've seen plenty of fools that can't ride a straight line! LOL

I know this guys seems like a real jerk, but you should not only talk to your club president, but you should also talk directly to the guy that was leading the ride! Tell him that you are trying to rehabilitate a knee injury, under doctor's orders and would appreciate if he would stick at least to the listed routes. It really can't hurt. Just do this in a constructive manner. If he takes it the wrong way, you have lost nothing.

I did tell him right before the ride I was in pain, recovering from a knee injury, was under doctor's orders not to ride more than 30 miles, not to ride hills...and he then proceeded to lead me on a 38 mile hilly ride.

Talking to him is an exercise in futility, as I have pointed out several times above. There is no one right answer to every situation- sometimes talking to people directly causes more trouble than it solves.

Your letter comes across like you're somebody who's had experience with being tactful but straightforward and honest. I know a fair number of people - who are good coaches for the right people - who sincerely believe that the "aversive" approach is the way to go to tuffen ya up. It's not good to put 'em in charge without an "out" for all the folks who *don't* want/need that schtick.
About the only time folks have seen me angry has been when a ride leader has talked the "nobody will be dropped" talk ... and then didn't believe that no, honestly, there really are people who ride at 11 mph and that is appropriate for them. Our last Tuesday first ride of the season averaged 8.9 mph. and it was the right speed.

Thanks, Geonz. That's exactly right- he's trying to "help" by toughening us up. But a community beginner's ride is not the place to do it.

This was tough for me, because I am more a "deal with things directly and on the spot" kind of gal, but this guy is so difficult to deal with (evidenced by the fact that the other ride leader didn't even want to say anything, even though she also has knee problems and was really, really pissed off), and I was so furious (I was crying tears of rage for about 5 miles), that it was clear to me that the best I could do would be talk to the person who's responsible for the leaders.

I am really hoping I don't face major attitude next Saturday, but I'm a big girl (both literally and figuratively), and I can take it (and dish it out, if I'm forced to).

Whatever his motivation, it just seems utterly wrong to me that he deviated from the posted ride route.

That just bugs the beejeebers out of me!