Triple Dura-Ace or Ultegra

I'm doing homework for a new bike and was wondering if anyone can help. I want to ditch the 105 triple on my old bike for a double, keep the aerobars and use it as my flat training bike.

And... I want to get a second bike as my touring and "climbing bike", hence my need for a triple. I'm not finding that in Sram or Campy so I'll have to go with Shimanos... but I really do NOT like the shifting on my 105 triple. It is in constant need of tuning and the levers are a haul for my small hands. I don't know how many times I've crested a hill and dropped my chain if I don't crank hard enough to move up a ring. I don't like to ride hills while not trusting my bike, esp when I'm in a group. Does anyone here have a triple in Dura Ace or Ultegra and have that problem? And does it make a difference between an 11- or 12-cog cassette?

I have a triple in Ultegra. I'm not even sure they make a Durace triple. I use the triple on my cross bike and it works fine. I usually would not recommend a triple for quick, good, shifts unless it is on a mountain bike.

Have you considered a compact double. That is what I would put on a climbing bike

I have a triple on both of my bikes (this was more or less by accident/happenstance/I didn't know any better with the first one). Personally with the road bike anyway, I think I'd be happier with a standard double and a wide cassette (12/27) in back. I actually do like having the lower gearing on my cross bike, which I use for commuting and often ride carrying a pretty heavy backpack (books, computer, possibly clothes).

One bike has full Ultegra and the other, full 105. I have to say, while Ultegra is lighter, I think the performance differences between the two are generally overstated. The Ultegra may be a tiny bit quicker but I wouldn't say it's more "precise" or "reliable" per se, unless it's adjusted better (or unless you make the argument that it's being quicker is a function of greater precision -- and I just don't know). I have had intermittent chain-dropping with both bikes (not one more than the other, I would say). Really, I think preventing chain drop when going uphill is a matter of two things:

1. Adjustment. It really makes a big difference. If you bring it into the shop and still have problems, bring it back.

2. You need to let up on the pedals a little bit if you're attempting to shift between front chainrings and are really whaling on the pedals (as when hammering over a hill).

Not knowing the terrain you'll be riding on, your preferences etc, I don't really have an opinion on whether you should/shouldn't be putting on a triple. I would just caution against expecting an upgrade from 105 to Ultegra to vastly improve triple-related shifting issues.

Edit: BTW I can totally relate to your concerns about riding up hills and not "trusting" your bike -- when I first got clipless pedals one of my biggest fears was that I would drop a chain going up hill and have to clip out suddenly and unexpectedly, and fall. Luckily when the inevitable happened, somehow I managed to clip out without freaking...

One trick though -- often, if you don't stop, you can actually pick a dropped chain back up by quickly upshifting and soft-pedaling. Not sure how/why this works, but I've done it a few times. (If the hill is too steep to keep any speed soft-pedaling though, it's probably not an option).

I have a triple in Ultegra. I am not experienced enough to tell you if it is better than Shimano 105 or not but the guys at the LBS told me it was. :) I did drop the chain going up hill (and fell:rolleyes: ) within the first few weeks of getting the bike last year but made some adjustments and learned to shift better so it doesn't happen anymore. That being said, I dropped the chain twice this week but I've only been out on the bike a few times this spring and I think it needs some adjustment again.

I am not a good climber and live with lots of hills so I still need the triple but I am hoping to graduate to a compact double for my next bike in a year or two.

I guess I'm wondering if my issues with my 105 triple has to do more with the "105" part of the "triple" part. I've asked a few people who have experience with both (most of the guys I know have never admitted to riding a triple) and the answers I received were mixed. (Spoke, both DA and Ultegra come in triples). My bike does fine after a visit to the LBS, but it goes out of adjustment frequently. I have been told that this is common with 105s.

Liza, I usually have no problem sweeping by chain back up, but as you said, on a steep hill it's virtually impossible to do so. The hills I train on go up at 8-11% with little or no flat on the top, then go straight down switchbacks like a rollercoaster.

My coach suggests I wean myself off my granny and go with the compact double. Personally, I love the options of a triple and that granny gear when my legs have blown up! But if I have the same shifting problems with a DA or Ultegra triple, it may not be worth it to me.

Yesterday I posted in a similar thread ("compact vs triple" I think) that you really need to think about why you want a triple.

In it I wrote that not only is a compact is lighter, narrower but it is also less susceptible to dropping the chain. This seems to be part of your concern, Bluetree... and like you, often I can "fix" the dropped chain when it happens without having to stop. But to have the chain dropping as often as it seems must be VERY frustrating.

I have only ever had a double and my most recent bike (EMC2 Fem Etape Pro) is a compact and is all I need.

It has a 50-34 on the front, 27-12 (10 speed) on the back. It is all I ever need on hills.

My TT bike has bigger top end gears (53-39 on front, 26-12 on back) but I don't climb hills much on that... and yet I still can when I need to.

Good luck in your decision making.

My current bike has an Ultegra triple. I have never had the chain drop. It also has never needed anything more than a minor adjustment every now and then.

My new bike (frame's in - waiting for it to be built) is going to have a Dura Ace triple. I've only test rode the DA double, so I don't know how the triple will compare. After being used to having the extra gears of the triple I just wasn't ready to go with the double.

105 vs. ultegra ... really can't answer if one is better than the other in triple, except I have had both, with 105 in triple and ultegra in double. chain drop can be a problem in a triple, no matter what level, because of the nature of a triple -- not as smooth and quick as a double. have you looked at HOW you are shifting ... sometimes that is more the problem than the triple itself.

triple seems to come in Shimano and FSA ... the trend in newly spec'd triples seems to be 50x39x30 gearing with a 11-23 or 12-27 in rear cassette -- that seems like really good gearing if you want a lot low gears on a triple. not sure how all that works out compared to a compact 50x34 or 36 or a traditional triple of 52x42x30, but does give you more options.

I am not experienced with many types of bikes or groups, so take this for what it's worth. But...

I have had a triple 105 for the past four years, and I really do not have troubles shifting. Nor do I feel like I have to take my bike in to the shop a lot. I ride a lot of hills, both grades and intermittent hills, and for whatever reason, I just don't have trouble with chain drop or missed shifts very often.

I think, for me, it has come down to *how* I shift, such as when I ease off the pressure momentarily, or anticipating which chainring I need heading into the hill. I almost never change chainrings mid-hill.

Anyhow, my 105 triple seems to work well for me. But then, I may not know what I'm missing! ;)

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Originally Posted by Bluetree

I'm not finding that in Sram or Campy so I'll have to go with Shimanos... but I really do NOT like the shifting on my 105 triple. It is in constant need of tuning and the levers are a haul for my small hands.

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Do Shimanos let you use 2 or 3 pushes of the lever to shift chainrings? Or does it have to be done in one big push? (I'm thinking it's one big push, from what I remember of the Shimano shifters I had on my Trek long ago.)

I have Campy shifters with Shimano front der/crank/chainrings. I love that I can "shift" part way, then "shift" the rest of the way with two quick short pushes rather than one nearly-impossible big push.

My hands aren't really small, but I don't quite have the handspan to shift in one go comfortably.


A Hijack: (I apologize)
I have a 48-39 double. Does anyone know if it's possible to get a 48-30 or 48-32 compact double? I like my 48, and I want lower gears on the low end. But going from 48-39 to 50-34 doesn't seem like all that much of an improvement for me. (I'm a wimp, I admit it. I want low low gears.)

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

...Or does it have to be done in one big push? (I'm thinking it's one big push, from what I remember of the Shimano shifters I had on my Trek long ago.)
I have Campy shifters with Shimano front der/crank/chainrings. I love that I can "shift" part way, then "shift" the rest of the way with two quick short pushes rather than one nearly-impossible big push.

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That pretty much describes it, Knot. My hands are too small to push the shifters as far as I need too comfortably (my hands are a little bit more than 6" from wrist to the tip of my middle finger.) For me to push my chain onto the bigger gears I literally have to project my left shoulder/arm forward and bend my wrist to get it in front of my handlebars. That is the only way I can get enough leverage or position to move the shifters... and I do have to push them fairly hard. If I'm at a comfortable pace or on the flats, it's no big deal. Nearing the apex of a steep climb, when my HR is in the red and I'm suffering, that is another matter. If I am not able to get into position to move the chain up with enough conviction, there is goes...! :(

Almost everyone I know has told me there is a big difference in shifting quality from 105 to Ultegra or DA. I'm wondering that this is a 105 issue, or a Shimano issue. If it is the former, I would be more comfortable looking at a U/DA triple. If it is the latter, I may have to dig into the checkbook and go for the Campy or Sram double. Hmmm... still more food for thought....

I saw a bike once with indexed brifter for the rear, and bar-end friction shifter for the front. Avoided the "big push" shift that way. Sort of odd, but it does solve the problem with pretty minimal expense!
(the front/left brifter was just used as a brake lever)

BlueTree, I have heard that the new DA is very light shifting. The shape of the hoods is also narrower than Ultegra. Go to the LBS and check them both out.

BT, I'm sorry I haven't read the entire thread. My contacts are drying up.

It seems a shame to change the old bike to double and then buy a triple. Seems more efficient/economical tokeep the triple and buy a whole new double. That's essentially what I've done, although it was not planned. I understand your reasoning, but wanted to know if possibly you've considered a few "fixes."

So old bike has sora triple (trek 1000)

new bike has ultegra double.

I'm not small like you so what I say may not apply.

On the old bike, I started riding without knowing anything about bikes. Every time I'd shift into granny, I'd drop my chain, I didn't know about crosschaining and stuff. I wouldn't use granny and learned to bike without it. I kept taking it back to the shop and saying that I kept dropping that chain. They finally installed this little plastic knob that keeps the chain from dropping. I thought it was called a "chain keeper" but I looked that up and it was not the right thing. I went and looked at the bike but couldn't read it tonight. (I'll need to get it outside tomorrow to read the part). I've never dropped the chain since it was put on. I don't know...it may look fred, but it gives me the confidence that I need to ride safely. Ironically, I still don't use granny much, cause I learned to ride without it. Hence, my desire to get a double.

So, the new bike has a double. I've had to learn about crosschaining. I've dropped the chain several times. all times when I had crosschained. I did it today. I'm still getting a feel for what gear I'm in and usually give a look see to be sure before I shift.

Finally, I've recently seen that a couple of bikes have little indicators that give you an idea of what gear you are in. Mr.'s Lemond (It think it's 105 triple) has one.

Finally, I also, recently learned that the way that shifters are brought in closer for WSD bikes are by placing a specially designed shim into the shifters, thus bringing in the levers closer to the handle bars. I've thought about trying to get some of these. I do have really long fingers, but thought that maybe it would give me some more confidence to have my fingers more fully around the levers.

just a couple of thoughts.

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Originally Posted by silver

So, the new bike has a double. I've had to learn about crosschaining. I've dropped the chain several times. all times when I had crosschained.

Finally, I also, recently learned that the way that shifters are brought in closer for WSD bikes are by placing a specially designed shim into the shifters, thus bringing in the levers closer to the handle bars.

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I'm surprised to hear that cross-chaining is a problem with doubles? I have only had my 105 triple, and I thought that doubles, with their slimmer depth due to only 2 rings, did not really have this issue? Hmmm.

And, I have an inexpensive set of Specialized shims on my bike. Actually, I have 2 shims on each side! I have very tiny hands. Double shimming does help, but I dream of a WSD bar that might have narrower bar circumference and a different shape to bring shifters closer to the bar.

My double doesn't seem to have a cross-chaining issue. I can adjust the front der almost like a friction shifter, and trim it so even if I do try to crosschain by accident, the der doesn't rub and there doesn't seem to be any problem. (but then I only have an 8 spd cassette, so not as wide a distance to potentially cross-chain?)

When I cross-chain my doubles on either bike, its operator error... not the gearing equipment itself.
:p

I've had the exact same problem with my old bike. It had ultegra shifters and a 105 front derailler. I didn't have trouble with dropping the chain- but it was constantly getting getting out of tune- and I would have to push really hard to shift into a bigger ring.

I just bought a custom bike. I live in a really hilly area- and after a lot of thought I realized I just wasn't ready to give up the flexibility of a triple. I put an R700 short reach shifter on the right. For the triple I just wanted the confidence of knowing I'd be able to shift it and I had a bar-end shifter installed.

I've been on one ride on the new bike (it's snowed since I got it and the roads are too messy again for biking). The R700 short reach shifter is AMAZIMG- it's so much easier to fully reach the shifter from the drops. It made me wish I'd put an R700 on both sides- I may still do that but I need to give it some more time. So I'd give the R700 shifters some serious thought (it felt so good it would be worth learning how to adjust the front derailler myself so I can fix it if it gets out of tune).

I went for the first ride on my new baby with the Dura Ace Triple tonight. It shifts beautifully. It is so much smoother than my Ultegra / 105 triple. The difference is most noticeable going up to the big ring. My other bike takes a lot more muscle to push the shifter on that side. The Dura Ace shifts just as smoothly and with no extra powering needed for both front and back. I didn't have much time to ride since the sun was beginning to set. Tomorrow is supposed to a nice day around here so I'll put her to the test then.

Switching between shimano and campy on your two bikes may drive you crazy. Why not get a campy compact double, with a 50/34 in front and 13-29 back (which can be easily swapped for something tighter if you don't really need to go that low) for your climbing bike?

OK, I had a 105 triple on my 1st road bike (a Cannondale R600 WSD). I dropped the chain a lot, mostly from inexperience, but i think the crappy components had something to do with it also. Once I got over that, I noticed I could never shift into the big ring. Just couldn't push the lever. I am small, but my hands are average sized. My next bike, a Trek 5200 came with Ultegra, triple. I only remember dropping the chain once, in the beginning of the season; some weird thing happened. But, I still could not easily shift to the big ring. At this point I thought of getting a compact double, but then we moved to a house on a big hill. My husband swapped out the Ultegra for the Dura Ace and voila! I could switch into the big ring at last.
I have had my Kuota for a year. It has a triple, with Ultegra. According to all I spoke with, this Ultegra is pretty much the same as the Dura Ace I had on my Trek because of all of the changes that have been made. I have never dropped my chain or had difficulty switching gears. Maybe it is because I am a much more experienced rider, but I think the quality of the components also has a good deal to do with this. At this point, being 53 years old, I am not going to switch to the compact double. It's not that i couldn't do it, but I like the "thought' of just knowing I have very low gears. In fact, i switched out the rear cassette to a 27 from a 25, a couple of months after I got the bike. So did my husband, who is a very strong rider. He's gone from a double, to a compact double, to a triple. He doesn't use the granny gear as much as I do, but he uses it. If people think this is Fred, well, I guess i can say i don't care!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bluetree

I'm doing homework for a new bike and was wondering if anyone can help. I want to ditch the 105 triple on my old bike for a double, keep the aerobars and use it as my flat training bike.

And... I want to get a second bike as my touring and "climbing bike", hence my need for a triple. I'm not finding that in Sram or Campy so I'll have to go with Shimanos... but I really do NOT like the shifting on my 105 triple. It is in constant need of tuning and the levers are a haul for my small hands. I don't know how many times I've crested a hill and dropped my chain if I don't crank hard enough to move up a ring. I don't like to ride hills while not trusting my bike, esp when I'm in a group. Does anyone here have a triple in Dura Ace or Ultegra and have that problem? And does it make a difference between an 11- or 12-cog cassette?

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Hey Joy,

I've got a triple Ultegra/Dura-Ace combo on my roubaix and it has worked flawlessly...

If you want an additional review of the full triple in Dura-Ace, you should PM Caligurl, she can give you an excellent review!

Trac'

Thanks Gals

I think I am going to go with a Dura-Ace triple. I was thinking a lot about a compact double but on the hills around here I use every one of my gears... big and small. Esp. on descents I like the option of getting into the biggest gear possible, because my weight puts me at such a disadvantage.

Case in point: last week my buddy (170 lbs) and I (110 lbs) crested a moderate hill with a straight descent. We started freewheeling down and he kept pulling farther and farther away. I was maxed out on my big ring just trying to keep from falling too far back. The idea of running out of big gears sooner with a compact double would probably irk me at some point.

So I took Sadie Kate's advice and checked out a bike with the 07 DA. Very nice, I think with shims it may work with my hands. I'll keep ya posted.

Thanks for the wealth of good advice. It's much appreciated!

Nothing like putting one's dainty paws on the item before making a decision.

Of course. And it applies to my men, as well. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bluetree

Thanks Gals

I think I am going to go with a Dura-Ace triple. I was thinking a lot about a compact double but on the hills around here I use every one of my gears... big and small. Esp. on descents I like the option of getting into the biggest gear possible, because my weight puts me at such a disadvantage.

Case in point: last week my buddy (170 lbs) and I (110 lbs) crested a moderate hill with a straight descent. We started freewheeling down and he kept pulling farther and farther away. I was maxed out on my big ring just trying to keep from falling too far back. The idea of running out of big gears sooner with a compact double would probably irk me at some point.

So I took Sadie Kate's advice and checked out a bike with the 07 DA. Very nice, I think with shims it may work with my hands. I'll keep ya posted.

Thanks for the wealth of good advice. It's much appreciated!

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Remember Bluetree - you are even lighter than I am so downhilling and staying with people that are heavier than you will always be a problem. The triple over a compact will help you, but won't solve your problem. The best tip I can give you is when you hit the top of the hill make sure you are right on the wheel of the heavier person and follow them down; the draft will make up for the lack of weight. I have to do this all the time or I will get dropped going downhill. And, it has nothing to do with wanting to go fast - I love to go fast downhill!