Any riders in the park have this problem?

Sorry to vent, but hey, it's a forum and eventually I'll have to b*tch about something.
I have a great park by me that lots of people use. On nice weather days, I see tons of people just taking a stroll on cell phones without any consideration of those of us flying by 29mph on bikes...and they're doing this in the bike and car lanes! Or I see parents obliviously letting their kids run around, or they themselves are walking stroller or carriages without giving though to what might happen if a cyclist hits into them.

Am I wrong to feel annoyed? It's bad enough most of the motorists by me literally try to run you over to get in front of you, and now the park has proven to be a deathtrap. It wouldn't even be as bad if the pedestrians didn't treat you like you were some weapon out to hurt them or their loved ones. Can't we all just get along???? :confused:

I am surprised that there aren't speed limits in this park. Where we have high density of walkers mixed with bikers there are often 15 mph speed limits.
IF you want to go 29mph, you belong on the street, imho... Oblivious people on cell phones are not going to get a clue any time soon.

Yeah - sorry to tell you this, but on mixed use trails pedestrians have the right of way. Yes they should be aware they are sharing the trail, they should not block the trail by walking many abreast, they need to be aware of traffic and not recklessly step out and such and I know how frustrating it can be when the walkers are ill behaved and rude, but you as a cyclist have the responsibility of always being in control also. If you feel as if you are constantly in danger of hitting someone at the speed you are traveling, chances are you are traveling too fast (though somehow I suspect you are exaggerating a wee bit about the 30mph bit....), passing too close etc. Just think of yourself as the car and the peds as you on your bike. You want respect and safe driving from the cars when they are near you? Well, the pedestrians have the right to expect the same from you as you are the bigger, heavier and faster individual in this case.

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Originally Posted by Eden

Yeah - sorry to tell you this, but on mixed use trails pedestrians have the right of way. Yes they should be aware they are sharing the trail, they should not block the trail by walking many abreast, they need to be aware of traffic and not recklessly step out and such and I know how frustrating it can be when the walkers are ill behaved and rude, but you as a cyclist have the responsibility of always being in control also. If you feel as if you are constantly in danger of hitting someone at the speed you are traveling, chances are you are traveling too fast (though somehow I suspect you are exaggerating a wee bit about the 30mph bit....), passing too close etc. Just think of yourself as the car and the peds as you on your bike. You want respect and safe driving from the cars when they are near you? Well, the pedestrians have the right to expect the same from you as you are the bigger, heavier and faster individual in this case.

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I agree with Eden.

I don't think I made myself clear, so let me try a re-write:

There is one section of the park where you go as fast as 30mph b/c of it being so downhill, and I don't think my speedometer is broken, though I often don't go anywhere near that as my hands are on the brakes b/c of people traffic certain days of the week. After the downhill there's an uphill climb where you average 6mph on a windy day, and the rest is basically flat which will allow for 15mph or so. I'm one of the SLOWEST riders, as racers zoom past me...I guess they just ride more competitively.

The other thing is that the bike lane is NOT supposed to be shared by pedestrians b/c there is a pedestrian path in addition to the bike lane...unless I'm competely unfamiliar with the law? There are many cyclists who hit into people on the street who walk between cars into the bike lane, and maybe I'm wrong but I certainly don't see why it's the cyclists's fault. I remember once I was on the Manhattan Bridge standing in the bike lane instead of the pedestrian lane to take a photo, and I pretty much almost caused 10 accidents and vowed to be more careful in the future.

Is there anything I'm really missing here?

Oh and Mimi,

I looked many times before but have yet to see any speed limits in the park, though the car lanes are 30mph if I'm not mistaken...

And maybe I'm a bit annoyed about the park thing b/c my good friend just was tossed off her bike and broke her arm b/c a parent let a kid run out on a red light (still the park) into the bike and car lane. She chose to fall rather than hit the kid (I would have done the same), so it's just a bummer she was put in that situation. Imagine if she was a car that couldn't stop on time!:eek:

If they are bicycle only lanes then I think you have every right to be annoyed at pedestrians clogging them up. Yes I do think that people can become too complacent in a park setting - they wouldn't think about walking in the middle of the street elsewhere would they? It sounds like the pedestrians are putting themselves in danger, not only from bikes, but from cars also. It sounds like your park needs better signage and enforcement, though I doubt you will ever see it. We have very few separated facilities out here, tails are nearly all mixed use. In the places where they are not there is little to no respect from the walkers for not using the "wheels" only parts of the trails for walking and yes they do act as if they cyclists are the parties in the wrong.

several thoughts

1. Call you local park district and find out exactly what the right of way and speed limit rules are for said bike path. Then you will know if you have a legitimate complaint or not. Who patrols it?

2. get a loud bell.

3. ride on the road.

Good tips, guys. I'm not 100% sure who is in charge, but I suppose I can always find a parks department I can write to. That may be my best bet. As for riding in the street, NYC is so frustrating--I have to hit my brake EVERY block b/c of lights, people, stop signs, etc. I am very polite and try hard not to cause accidents...I'd rather be 5 minutes late than on time and underneath the wheels of a car, you know?

I do ride to work by bike, and naturally the way I ride on the streets are much different than how I ride in the park. I also want to say that I have been a near-victim of more than one attack riding around NYC...there tends to be a lot of hostility here, and people on bikes are targets. In fact, I just missed a free workshop on how to deal with street harassment, esp us ladies. I narrowly missed one guy trying to mess with me and found out he got another girl a few blocks down...knocked her out cold for no reason. Didn't take her bike or wallet; just a random act of violence. The police were of no help and even gave her bike away and refused to admit it. Very infuriating, I'm sure. I heard she doesn't ride anymore :(

Not sure what to tell you. You might have a very NYC-specific problem...

I find it so frustrating to ride on bike paths that I'd rather take the road, even if that means going with cars. I don't mind the lights. I'm from Montreal originally and it's a bit less aggressive than NYC, although my riding style there was much more hum.... nervous than it is here in quaint Vancouver, BC.

I don't think there are other solutions than the above mentionned:

BELL

and riding more slowly.

A loud 'Yo' might also help, once in a while.

Or taking the road, behaving like a car, and keeping your cool. Wearing a skort or letting your hair flow out or your helmet to look more feminine might help.

Good luck!

Even if they've painted a bike lane on the pavement, if the majority of park users are peds, it becomes a defacto ped park. The people have had their say on how they want to use that particular bit of parkland. Everyone deserves their day in the sun.

Instead of getting irritated, acknowledge that you've outgrown that park and are ready for bigger things. Ask around - there are so many awesome rides in the NYC area that don't involve constant red lights or parks full of strollers. Any bike store employee, and any courier who isn't a jerk will be happy to kick down their favorite Sunday rides.

Why not get an air horn? There's an older gent who rides on the trail that I frequent and believe me, it works like a charm. I'm actually thinking about getting one myself!

I agree w/Eden, et.al. There's a mutal responsibility to share the trail. If you have bike lanes specifically designated as 'bikes only,' then other users should respect that. My advice is to anticipate, adjust your riding accordingly, and if all else fails, try to find somewhere else to ride if you really want to hammer. By the way, try to ride during "low use" times like early morning or late evening. That is my solution to avoid the worst of the doofi (doofuses). Means that I can't sleep in on weekends but I can always take an afternoon recovery nap. ;)

I'm a little confused and very unmotivated at work. So, how exactly is this laid out in the park? I made two quick drawings:

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/2910/bikesw2.jpg

One has the bike lane right next to the road with a grassy section then the pedestrian area. The other has the road, grass, then peds and bikes (peds and bikes can be switched, doesn't matter). If it's set up like the bottom drawing, I would say you should just ride in the road. It's a slow speed limit, it's probably safer than dealing with peds. If it's set up like the top drawing, then you're screwed. Either way, is there a grassy section or some sort of barrier seperating the road from the peds? If so, that's INSANE that parents let their kids run out there and the city really needs to start taking action. We have some pretty heavily used parks around here (I'm sure not like ther e is in NYC though) and I have never seen kids run into the roads. That is just screaming for an accident. If there isn't, well, that just seems like REALLY poor planning on the city for the park layout.

Rodale built this cool little park across from the Velodrome here. It has three lanes like this:

Walkers l Rollerbladers l Bikes l

The biking lane is the widest. But very frequently walkers will be in the bike lane and sometimes the rollerbladers will be in the bike lane because the walkers are in their lane.

What can I say? People are stupid. Unfortunately I think it's a problem you'll find at all parks and bike paths.

I have to start out by saying that I'd have a problem riding where you ride - too many people and cars! You're braver than I am...

It's very rare that I will ride on a bike path. The paths around here are very much overutilized, and I feel that they are not safe places to ride. I'd much rather take my (legal) place on the roads with the cars; at least I have a pretty good idea of how the cars will behave. I remember once many years ago riding in Cambridge (MA) with a friend. He insisted on staying on the bike path. I started there with him, but I quickly moved into the road. I was much happier there.

Do all of the cyclists riding in that park ride on the bike path?

--- Denise

You do have, to an extent, a NYC problem. I pretty much avoid the local park. Last year I cracked my ribs avoiding a child. I will occasionally cut through there, but don't use it for general riding.

Biking on the streets of New York is not so fun with avoiding traffic and people and potholes and other things in the road. It just doesn't make for the best weekend ride. I've found that getting up early makes things much better-there are far fewer people on the bike paths and in the park and on the weekend I can always try and grab a nap in the afternoon!

I agree with the rest of the gals. It's best to take the trail early, when most people are sleeping or just getting up. When I go to work, I use the trail b/c it's a longer route and I can get more mileage that way and I have to leave early. If you can't ride earlier or the trail is just packed all of the time, it's best just to take to the road. I then hop onto the road where the trail ends. I think it's easier to maneuver on the road and there are usually clear signals as to what's going on (right hand turn lane signs, traffic lights, etc.) compared to the path. You can easily guess what a car's gonna do (most of the time), but not a kid!

Lizbids-

I ride in Central Park when I don't feel like leaving the city and, of course, I've encountered the same problems as you. I've discovered that it doesn't matter what the rules are or how unsafe it may be, many people are just going to be oblivious to their surroundings and walk in the road, so I adjust my riding accordingly - for my safety. I now usually stay at the north end of the park, where there are fewer "daydreamers", and do hill repeats. I usually ride early in the day. Perhaps you can restructure your workout in a similar fashion. (Are you riding in Prospect Park? There's a pretty good sized hill there.)

When cars are allowed in Central Park cyclists must use the bike lane (which is right next to the runner's lane - no barrier on either side). It's too dangerous to ride in the road with the traffic. Of course the runners, bladers, and pedestrians do not respect the bike lane, so the choice is either to get out of the city or ride early in the day. I believe the "unofficial" parks bicycle speed limit is 15 mph, but this is rarely, if ever, enforced AFAIK.

Also, for me it's just not worth getting aggravated about this. Everyone else has a right to enjoy the park too. I just have to be smarter than them if I want to stay safe.

Carol

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Originally Posted by Eden

Yes I do think that people can become too complacent in a park setting - they wouldn't think about walking in the middle of the street elsewhere would they?

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Well, actually . . . our city seems to be on a roll with fatal pedestrian/car accidents. People keep just walking out in the middle of the street thinking they have the right of way, causing cars to have to stop. However when its dark and drivers cannot see the pedestrians, they get hit and killed. We had 6 such incidents last year in a city of 85,000 people, in all cases the driver was determined NOT to be at fault. I myself have had to suddenly stop to avoid hitting people in the street in the dark 4 times in the last 4 months.

People are stupid, and you can be annoyed at them all you want, but its not going to change their behavior. People don't pay enough attention when they drive, they pay even less attention when they are strolling about, especially on their phones. When I ride on the multi-use paths, I know I just have to be vigilant and I can only pick up speed when I can see far ahead that no one is going to get in my way. I agree you have every right to be frustrated at these clueless people, but I really don't think there is anything you can do about it.

I'm glad so many people wrote in with their opinions, because I think these are things that few of us talk about anymore. Yes, it isn't worth getting too frustrated, but it sure can ruin your day when someone literally threatens to cut you b/c they feel you shouldn't be on a bike anywhere. I try to be the polite cyclist, b/c the speed-freaks out there really ruin it for the rest of us. I try to set an example. Oh and to asnwer some Q's, the cyclists stop using the bike lane b/c it really is impossible to ride on it (it's very skinny) without hitting someone. And yes to my Central Park friend, Prospect park has a nice little hill to climb, whew! :p

Yes, I will consider having to get up early on a Saturday and use the park, as the population increases with the afternoon...though it's much warmer at 1pm than at 8am!

I think, as with everything, people get absorbed in themselves and forget where they're at. I do it too! You're gabbing on your cell phone standing a corner when a bus can come crashing down the street--I guess we should all be more careful. Maybe a town other than NYC will be in my future...along with a new set of scenarios to adapt to!

Again, thanks for all the thoughts and ideas!:D Be safe, all!

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Originally Posted by lizbids

Maybe a town other than NYC will be in my future...along with a new set of scenarios to adapt to!

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I'm going to be very interested to hear your reaction to the very different road conditions (and population) that you'll encounter on your tour this summer.

--- Denise

Yes, I am sure that I will go into a pleasant culture-shock. I only lived outside of NYC in a smaller city...Albany! So yes, I am looking forward to seeing what else is out there. And who knows...I may fall in love with a new part of the country.

The city-slicker in me is scared of grizzlies, mountain lions and lunatics with chainsaws...so ladies of the Northwest/West coast, tell me I'll be okay! :p

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Originally Posted by lizbids

The city-slicker in me is scared of grizzlies, mountain lions and lunatics with chainsaws...so ladies of the Northwest/West coast, tell me I'll be okay! :p

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lizbids, you will be lucky to see a grizzly bear. I've only seen them in the wild in British Columbia, and that was far from civilisation.

I've never seen a mountain lion in the wild, although I've seen tracks and scat, so again, I don't think you've much to worry about.

Now lunatics with chainsaws, that's a different story. Although you are more likely to run into lunatics with logging trucks, than the chainsaws...:D .

East Hill

Sorry, but I have to laugh. Folks from NYC always seem to have an unrealistic view of the rest of the world. :p

Liz--You might really enjoy a sunrise ride. Believe me, you can acclimate to the cold. The first few cold weather rides are the worst, but with the right layers and chemical hand/foot warmers, you'll be fine. I love the light that time of the day, and you get to see a lot of wild life (raccoons, bunnies, foxes, and occasionally, a coyote for me!!). I often have the trail pretty much to myself for the first hour or two--nothing beats it. Have to admit that as much as I love the spring and warmer temps, I do not at all like the influx of "fair weather exercisers." Those of us who brave the winter cold should have emminent domain!!! LOL.
By the way, I sometimes fantasize about having a handlebar mounted super soaker with which I could blast the most idiotic of trail rules offenders. It helps me keep my sense of humor to imagine blasting them out of my way.

I also suggest riding a bike in the early morning for another reason: car drivers seem to be much more peaceful in the morning. They accumulate frustrations as they go through the day and that's when they become dangerous!!

I love the idea of a sunrise. I'm not sure how cold it gets in the late evening, overnight and early morning in that part of the country. I'm assuming it's chillier than I think, especially when you're on the water?

Haha, I know I sound like a neurotic New Yorker. One time I went camping in the Adirondack mountains, and after we checked into a rustic cabin, I locked my car door, to which all of my upstate friends ragged on me the whole time. :p
What it's really about is inexperience and how I don't want to underestimate the land, you know? I get the feeling within a day or two I'll forget that I'm anywhere but home...on the road ;)

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Originally Posted by lizbids

I'm glad so many people wrote in with their opinions, because I think these are things that few of us talk about anymore. Yes, it isn't worth getting too frustrated, but it sure can ruin your day when someone literally threatens to cut you b/c they feel you shouldn't be on a bike anywhere. I try to be the polite cyclist, b/c the speed-freaks out there really ruin it for the rest of us. I try to set an example. Oh and to asnwer some Q's, the cyclists stop using the bike lane b/c it really is impossible to ride on it (it's very skinny) without hitting someone. And yes to my Central Park friend, Prospect park has a nice little hill to climb, whew! :p

Yes, I will consider having to get up early on a Saturday and use the park, as the population increases with the afternoon...though it's much warmer at 1pm than at 8am!

I think, as with everything, people get absorbed in themselves and forget where they're at. I do it too! You're gabbing on your cell phone standing a corner when a bus can come crashing down the street--I guess we should all be more careful. Maybe a town other than NYC will be in my future...along with a new set of scenarios to adapt to!

Again, thanks for all the thoughts and ideas!:D Be safe, all!

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I know how you feel liz, and agree that you either need a loud horn or someplace new to ride. If it's financially doable in the future, leave NYC and go for greener pastures and new scenery. a smaller city that's more bike friendly perhaps. I get annoyed when folks don't follow the rules and ruin it for everyone. They think the world revolves around them only. Everyone needs to share and pay attention to their surroundings. Good Luck. Jennifer

Hey Liz
If you go hiking around here (PacNW), you'd BETTER lock your car and hide all your valuables in it too. We have the roughest wildest wilderness, but unfortunately, there are still humans here too.

Hey, I grew up in Albany! Have lived in Seattle for 24 years now.

Many people who grew up out here and have never been to NYC have totally unrealistic and weird views of the city---nothing but muggers, etc.

Lizbids, you'll be fine out here! It's great. No more or less scary than any other place.

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Originally Posted by lizbids

Yes, I am sure that I will go into a pleasant culture-shock. I only lived outside of NYC in a smaller city...Albany! So yes, I am looking forward to seeing what else is out there. And who knows...I may fall in love with a new part of the country.

The city-slicker in me is scared of grizzlies, mountain lions and lunatics with chainsaws...so ladies of the Northwest/West coast, tell me I'll be okay! :p

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Originally Posted by lizbids

I love the idea of a sunrise. I'm not sure how cold it gets in the late evening, overnight and early morning in that part of the country. I'm assuming it's chillier than I think, especially when you're on the water?

Haha, I know I sound like a neurotic New Yorker. One time I went camping in the Adirondack mountains, and after we checked into a rustic cabin, I locked my car door, to which all of my upstate friends ragged on me the whole time. :p
What it's really about is inexperience and how I don't want to underestimate the land, you know? I get the feeling within a day or two I'll forget that I'm anywhere but home...on the road ;)

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I hear ya, Mimi--

What made my situation funny is that the land was privately owned by my college, and since we were the only students who had a cabin on the entire plot, it was unlikely that anything would go missing..jeeez, I probably had my club on, too!:o

Lizbids: If you are in NYC then you are probably familiar with sandy hook. SH has a brand new beautiful bike lane. The hook is a gorgeous point of land surrounded by water on both sides, it's long and flat w/ a view of the city and the ocean and you ride straight out to the end, around and back.

Sound great?

Sure, in theory. The bike path is SO congested with ped during the height of the season that I won't go near the place unless it's 7am. As gorgeous as it is and even though the path was built to keep the cyclists off the main road, it's just not worth the frustration of avoiding kids, dog walkers, strollers, roller bladers and the occasional senior on a beach cruiser. I've seen roadies come cruising through with bells, calling out "on your left" etc - too much stress if you ask me.

Well, I'm going to vent, too. Today I swore (more than once - lol) that I'd not ride another bicycle path on the weekends! The bike path has a speed limit of 15 mph, and I was going about 13 when from a pedestrian bridge (that leads to the bike path, out come two little kids who didn't even LOOK either way before they pedaled onto the bike path. I swerved and thought for sure the one kid would catch my back wheel, but thankfuly he didn't. Then, only a short ways later, while biking under the San Mateo bridge (SF area), there's a blind corner and the path is very curvy. Well, what appears but another kid biking toward me in MY lane and of course I didn't see him until I turned the corner. Almost crashed again!

I was so pi**ed both times that I ranted and raved at them, and I hope they know better in the future, but I wouldn't bet on it.

No more bike/pedestrian paths for me on weekends!

yeah I try not to get too mad at little kids, b/c they're well, little kids. In my head I scream like a lunatic, but it's the adults that get me CRAZY. Especially since many ride going down the wrong way on a one-way street and REFUSE to move. I am positive that some do it on purpose to force you into the middle of the street just b/c some people are, well...NUTS AND BORED!!

I live about 2 blocks away from a trail here in Minneapolis. In most parts the bike trail, which has only a 10mph speed limit, is separated from the walking trail, but shared trail sections are clearly marked. Also, in most parts the trail is a two-way with a dashed line down the middle, and is a good 3 to 4 feet wide on each side of said line.

Lots of times walkers will use the bike trail for their walking, often walking in pairs/groups that are spread out to take up both lanes and/or not paying attention to the "traffic" acround them. Lots of people like to walk their dogs on the bike trail on long or retractable leashes, so that the dog will run across to the other edge and you are unable to pass them until you can get their attention and they can get their dog next to them.

Unfortunately, if you're not to the point where 25mph is a piece of cake, the streets that run along this trail are more of a problem than the trail itself; lots of drivers speed, ignore stop signs, and other things cops should be around to see.

Yeah I never really understand how easy it is to have a license to drive here in the USA. I remember for the first year I had a license, I had to make lots of mistakes before I learned, as most of driving is experience. I hear in Germany their driving test actually spans over two days, and that their cars don't even have cupholders b/c they think taking a sip of a drink is ludicrous. I mean, I know they have to travel much higher speeds on certain roadways, but I sure wish this country was stricter with licenses, and that ever driver must take bicycle-safety courses...though I suppose plenty of cyclists could use a refresher course, too.