motivating my kid

Hoping to get some tips from some of you moms. I'm at my wits end. My son is the master of doing the least possible at the last possible moment. He wanted to do a run with me but training with him was so miserable. I let him set the pace. I found fun places to run. He would act so ugly when people were around that I would get ugly looks. He would pretend to almost cry like I was chasing him with a whip. I told him that he didn't have to do it but he said it was important to him. Next couple of runs were fun. Then suddenly he starts the dramatics again. I've left it to him. We'll run when he wants to. We haven't. The race is in a week and he won't be able to do it. Fine, except it's the same with every aspect of his life. I thought this would help him learn to work towards something. He just brought home a 42 on a test. He was going to study tonight. He thought the test was tomorrow. Even if it was, he was still waiting until the absolute last minute to study. Our neighborhood school is horrible starting next year and I'm doing everything I can to get him in a great, interesting school. I've done everything I can and waiting to find out. Once he's in, he'll have to maintain the grades to be there. He's smart, but he doesn't put forth any effort. He's a decent baseball player but gives me grief for every practice. I cannot think of one thing he is passionate about and I'm really sad and frustrated right now. :(

Stacie, how old is your son? I am a middle school teacher and he sure sounds like he might be an early adolescent. I know you said your school was bad (believe me, I have worked at some of those schools), but what kind of communicatipn have you had with them? Any feedback as to what is going on with his behavior at school, besides the low test grade? Although I might say if you are really frustrated, let the "natural consequences" take effect; failing grades, not passing classes, maybe having to retake a class, not get to do sports, or other negative things (no video games?). It sounds like he needs an organizational coach, to work on time management, using his planner, setting daily and weekly goals. You can certainly do this, but you sound really frustrated. Perhaps you could work with the school psych. or counselor. Or, there are people who do this for a living. It usually costs a bit, but a month of coaching might help you set up a program.
You should schedule a meeting with his counselor and/or team. Our first step in this situation would be to have teachers in each subject sign the daily planner and make sure all of his needed materials are in his backpack at the end of the day. Then the parent checks the planner each night, initials it and writes any comments for the teachers about issues with homework or long term projects. We also do weekly emails regarding progress. Are your school's assignments on Schoolnotes.com? It's a very commonly used web site where teachers post their work for the week. That way, you are aware in advance of what is coming up.
As far as the run goes, what are you training for? I know I never could have done any event with my kids at that age. My son who is now the super athlete, in the Marines, complained bitterly when I would ask or make him come with me to hike or x country ski, etc. He discovered the joys of cycling on his own after I stopped trying to get him involved with other things.

I found this article last week and it seemed to make sense:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/AmericanFa...2877896&page=1

DH's son was constantly told how smart he was and as time went on he did less and less effort and of course the school was always to blame for not being able to keep him from getting "bored". Well he eventually bored himself out of decent grades altogether and never wanted to do anything but play computer games til 3am. He almost flunked out of college several times but is improving now slightly (in his 5th year!).
I see this so much these days...

My son attends what I believe is the best elementary school in our city. We moved to the neighborhood so he could attend even though the house is tiny and cost twice what our other one did. Best thing I ever did for many reasons. Next year he goes to middle school. You were right on target Robyn and our neighborhood school is awful. I can get him in a school for academically advanced probably. It's a lottery and we'll know in April. He will need to be more motivated. He's smart but is not living up to his ability in any arena of his life. I realize the run may have been too much for us to do together. He opted not to do it after school with his coach and friends. He wanted us to do it together.
Robyn, I've met with his teachers and we are working together. Frankly, I think they like him so much that they let him get away with alot. I had frank discussions with them and told them that he was capable of more. They are holding him more accountable, but I don't see him responding.
I'm familiar with schoolnotes but his teachers don't use it. He's teachers are wonderful but may not be open to some of the current technological opportunities. They do keep me informed in other ways.
I am worried because if he doesnt make the grades next year he will have to go to our neighborhood school where 30% kids are testing at standard. He's capable. I just can't seem to make him care. I will talk to his school counselor tomorrow and ask about an organizational coach. Heck, I could use one of those. :D
Thanks for the article Lisa. I was afraid I would get alot of eye rolling because to others he seems like the perfect kid. Sounds like you experienced what I'm afraid will happen.
I appreciate the understanding. s

Interesting article, Lisa. Pretty valid, IMHO. I've certainly seen this and have honestly tried very hard to avoid this very thing with my boys. Still, two of my boys have always been quite unmotivated, to put it mildly! Most of the things Robyn suggested, we tried. And it did help. But there is only so much a parent can do. The child eventually has to make the decision to work harder, be better prepared, etc. As a parent, it is so difficult to sit back and watch your child F-up! 'Cause some will do so and you can't prevent it. You can't give up on them. You keep believing in them. It took my oldest almost 25 years to come around and realize that if he wanted to succeed, he needed put effort into it. He's 29 now and finally has a steady job and a decent life. My two middle boys never really had a problem. They were self-motivated. My baby (he's 18 now) is more like the oldest. We are having a very difficult time with him. He was like this all through grade school and high school. He is now realizing that college is different and his old habits need to change. It's tough for him. He is in a special class in college, to teach him how to apply himself. He is doing better. I could go on and on. My point is, do what you can. Do not blame yourself if things don't go as you'd like. And don't give up. Even if it takes longer than you'd like, most likely your kid will come around and make you proud.

Hoping things work out for you!!

Annie

i had two like this.
We had to threaten one with accompanying him to school every day to get him to go to health class, which if he flunked he would not have graduated high school.

fast forward, they're adults now: the one is still a procrastinator.
The second son, who always put everything off until the last second, and got crappy grades until he was a junior in HS took charge of his life when he turned
about 16 and never looked back. Now he's a math major in college with a 3.95 GPA average.
he has to want to. good luck.

It sounds like you are doing the right thing. I know it's not a big help, but my oldest son, who was perfect until 8th grade was totally unorganized and weird for most of the time he was in HS. My kids went to a very challenging public school (a "public prep" as it's called around here). The academic pressure was unreal. At any other school, both my kids would have been in the top ten perscent. They were both squarely in the middle of their classes. He only did well in the classes he was interested in, but somehow managed to obtain a B average, by doing well in just a few things. He skipped gym for a whole semester and we never found out until June... he had to go to alternative gym at the health club and slog off the miles on the treadmill and bike. I constantly had to be in contact with his chemistry and math teachers so he would do his work. It sucked, but he was motivated by extra curricular stuff, thankfully. He is now a successful adult, graduated college with honors, with just a few blips along the way. He's fluent in Italian, has traveled everywhere, has a good job, and a girlfriend. And guess what? I still see him as the kid who didn't do his chemistry homework!
Of course, son #2, AP Scholar, speech and debater, #5 junior level cyclist in USA in 2001, entered college as a sophomore, had a great first year and promptly came home and enlisted in the Marines...

Thom joined the Marines after his first year of college. I was devastated. We were supposed to go to college together. I was a year behind him in school.

In retrospect it was the BEST decision he's ever made. Sorry... second best.

V.

It seems to be a very common problem with this generation of kids.
ONe thing that at least kept my kids interested in even showing up at school
was that they both were in band or orchestra. Music was the only thing my older son was passing at one point in 6th grade.
You sound like YOU are doing the right thing. You are engaging him in things
that you do and he Used to like doing.
My younger son went from being a happy silly 11 year old to acting like a ghoul when he was 13, 14, 15... He hardly moved his mouth when he talked, he kept his hands at his sides and when he walked around like that it was bizarre. The transformation was awful for us, we didn't know what to do with him (and of course he couldn't bear to be seen with us in public)
It was all so scary for us, it really was.

Mimi, your description of your son made me laugh. This is my world every day! Although the boys usually smile a little more at school as opposed to when they are with their parents. It keeps me young, but I am ready to admit that I am glad this is my last year.
Veronica, thanks for the kind words about the Marines. I have accepted it, obviously there is nothing I can do, but I'm still pissed about it! He is very happy, and definitely didn't do it for politcal reasons, but it's really hard for anyone around to here to understand. The military is seen as an option for losers and it's a very anti-war atmosphere. I spent most of my teenage years protesting on the Boston Common. so you probably get my drift. I just want him to finish school, but now he is talking about getting into the intelligence unit, which would require a reenlistment. The longer he stays in, I think it will be harder for him to go back to civilian life. I think he really doesn't know what he wants to do; of course, I look back and think maybe he is trying to still erase his past image as a wimpy little Jewish boy! I mean, when he was little, he sucked at sports and his brother was great. It wasn't until he started cycling in 8th grade that he started turning into a super fit person. He also has the "teacher" gene and has done a lot of work with kids. I always envisioned him teaching high school history, which is a real passion for him.
Sorry about my rant, but this is something I can't really discuss with anyone, except my husband.

Robyn

I think the military can be a place for losers, saw my share of those since I worked on the base. But it can be a chance to learn a lot about yourself, about other people, and hopefully some useful skill as well. Thom never went back to school. He took some classes at the community college and then we bought a house. Career wise, it hasn't hurt him. I'm sure at the time his parents were less than thrilled. :) He was in for six years. I'm sure your son will find his own way.

V.

Thanks again, V. My one consolation, is that when he came home last month, to get ready to move to San Diego, he said," I want to take my bike." He hasn't been riding since 2003. So Steve put his bike together, tuned it, and gave him an extra pair of shoes and pedals. He went on his first ride last Sunday; 50 miles with an average of 22 :eek: I guess all of that running keeps you in shape!

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Originally Posted by mimitabby

My younger son went from being a happy silly 11 year old to acting like a ghoul when he was 13, 14, 15... He hardly moved his mouth when he talked, he kept his hands at his sides and when he walked around like that it was bizarre.

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Weird!!! That's exactly how DH's son behaved...complete to the hardly moving mouth when talking!! It was really hard to understand his mumbling. The sad thing is that I know 3 other boys, sons of other friends, who do this too!! They are all thin and pale, too. What's up with that? Of the 4 boys, 2 were on Ritalin for years, 2 were not.
The only one thing i see in common is that they spend a lot of time on the internet, watching movies & tv, and playing computer games. That, and they all have parents who talk in front of them about how the school doesn't keep their smarter-than-average sons interested. (This includes DH, who no longer does this of course since his son is now 21 and struggling through college.) DH's son used to blame DH when he missed school or got detention for being late- for not dragging him out of bed in time- and this was when he was 16!!!....imagine!! :confused: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Man, I feel totally blessed that I never had these problems with my 2 daughters. I feel for parents who go through this.

Stacie,

What positive reinforcements do you have in place for when he does what he is suppose to?

When he gets a good grade... do you reinforce it with something he cares about? Such as: "Get an A and you will earn yourself a new video game".

I know some parents say they won't do this because they are bribing their kids to do what they should want to do.

Per the book, "Analyzing Performance Problems" by Rober F. Mager and Peter Pipe (p. 81):

" Bride is a loaded word, implying something illegal or designed to make someone do something against his or her will. What we are talking about is a positive consequence that, if you like loaded words, could as well be called a reward. By providing a positive consequence, you increase the probablity that behavior will occur. When a mother says to her child, 'If you pick up your clothes for a week, I'll take you to a movie,' is is not bribery. It is the offer of an incentive (a consequence desired by the child) in return for performance desired by the mother."

What is your sons positive consequence for making GOOD grades... for RUNNING... for accomplishing a goal?

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He's smart but is not living up to his ability in any arena of his life.

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This part really bothers me a lot. Kids don't lose total motivation without a good reason. The reason could be developmental, which means it will pass if those around him don't force him into the "loser" role. It could be something more serious. One of my sons had something serious happen to him when he was 7 which resulted in behavior that we took him to counseling for. But we didn't find out what actually happened until he was 18, and he's never directly told us. We found out by accident. Talk about regret! I'm not saying that something bad has happened to your son, but you shouldn't ignore all the possibilities. Examine them and follow up and trust your gut.

Also, don't nag. Boys HATE nagging. Turn your expectations around to expect only positive things. The important thing is to maintain a positive relationship with your child for the long run. Things can get worse; they can piss you off worse and do worse things as they get older, and how you handle this can mean the difference between whether they come to you when they're older, or whether they stay away.

Two of my favorite books: How to Talk so Kids Will Listen...by Faber and Mazlish, and Parent Effectiveness Training by Thomas Gordon. I know you have older kids, so you know it's true. They usually straighten out by the time they're 25! lol. We keep telling ourselves "They're going to be AWESOME 25 year olds!"

Karen

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" Bride is a loaded word, implying something illegal or designed to make someone do something against his or her will. What we are talking about is a positive consequence that, if you like loaded words, could as well be called a reward. By providing a positive consequence, you increase the probablity that behavior will occur. When a mother says to her child, 'If you pick up your clothes for a week, I'll take you to a movie,' is is not bribery. It is the offer of an incentive (a consequence desired by the child) in return for performance desired by the mother."

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But there's a difference between natural consequences and imposed consequences. This paragraph describes imposed consequences, that really have nothing to do with picking up clothes. Having a clean floor and getting clothes in the laundry are the natural consequences of picking up clothes. Those are *desirable* consequences. I think children want the same things adults want, in their time, so I don't believe in imposed or extrinsic consequences.

There's another good book called "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn, which is about the problem with gold stars for good behavior, etc.

My ideas about this are radical and unimaginable to some people. Some of you will want to argue with me, but I probably won't. I'm just happy to be able to post the book titles, say that there is another way to look at this, and leave it at that.

Karen

Karen,
it's easy to say "Don't Nag" but when every single thing is a fight, nagging happens. I guess chasing them with a big stick might work better. :confused:
My older son proved to us that bribes and punishments don't always work either. Kids can be pretty tough...

Lisa, we severely limited computer time with our sons, fortunately, it was still the days of dial ups and only 1 computer in the house. We didn't have the TV on much either. Younger son sold his gameboy in disgust because at 30 minutes of play time a day; he couldn't get good enough at any of the games to compete with his friends (snort :D )
The zombie appearance had to do with the fact that he suddenly realized the effect that he was having on others wasn't so good (he was an annoying little brat) and so he turned it all off in an attempt to fit in.
When he was old enough to take college classes, he took ASL (American Sign Language) which I think really saved his personality. You can't communicate without words and without expression.
When we saw the first video of him (actually telling a joke in ASL) we were in tears because he was so beautiful and animated again!

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

My ideas about this are radical and unimaginable to some people. Some of you will want to argue with me, but I probably won't. I'm just happy to be able to post the book titles, say that there is another way to look at this, and leave it at that.

Karen

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Smart woman, Karen! ;) We all have differing ideas about child raising- but it's GOOD to just read and learn as much as we can about different approaches, so we can open our minds to new or not so new methods. Sometimes solutions can be therre but we can't see them because of getting stuck in patterns. :)

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it's easy to say "Don't Nag" but when every single thing is a fight, nagging happens.

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I know. I have 3 sons. :)

I guess we'll have to define nagging. Nagging is talking with no action. Nagging is sitting on your booty in the recliner and calling out as your kid passes by, "Don't forget to pick up your jacket! Did you take the trash out like I told you? Didn't I tell you to pick up your towel in the bathroom?"

I don't want my interactions with my child to be just about empty words from across the room. To me, that's nagging.

Not-nagging is getting up when you see your child coming in, and engaging them in interested conversation while they hang up their jacket. Not-nagging is, "Would you please take this bag of trash out while I put a new liner in the can?" Not-nagging is brushing your teeth together and saying, "Would you please put the towel up while I rinse out the sink?"

Nagging requires no effort on the part of the parent, just lip service.

Not-nagging requires actively engaging with your child, demonstrating the proper behavior, being interested in how they feel about what's required, doing it with them, believing that they will eventually get it on their own, and believing in their innate desire to do so.

We have a sense of humor around here. I don't nag my kids, because we joke around and use sarcasm and we do things together and it works better than nagging. But they often need reminders. One thing I do instead of nag is, say, we're in the kitchen after dinner...I get up to put my dishes in the dishwasher and say, "Hey, boy. Observe. Imitate." The only kid left at home has a very active imagination and his mind tends to flit around, so he easily forgets to put his dish away. But it's not the end of the world if he doesn't and it's not the end of the world if he forgets and I don't have to be a ***** by nagging him about it.

Lots of people will say "I don't have time to shepherd my kid around to every little chore." No one does. But if you do it enough, it becomes less of a necessity, and your relationship with your kids can be better than if you nagged.

Karen

I'm a big believer in Alfie Kohn. The communication thing is important, too. Can't say that I never nagged, but it was mostly in the positive way that was mentioned. I was a big believer in "Are your hands broken?" Yes, sarcasm had a positive effect on my sons. The oldest is a slob and it was tough for him to adhere to our house rules for cleanliness. He is not a slob with his appearance, but one time there was a fire at the high school and we had to take him to pick up all of the stuff in his locker, so they could defumigate the building during a break. Oh my God! He had a huge Hefty trash bag full of junk, paper, all of the homework never passed in. The inside of his car is gross, and I don't go to his apt. without giving him time to clean before I arrive. But, he is a very successful adult. The younger one was always neat and didn't have the paper issues, even though both my kids have ADD and very poor short term memory. We limited computer time with the younger one, who was getting addicted and had to limit the IM for the older one when he was doing badly in school. My kids loved learning for learning's sake and did not give a **** about their grades, until they were juniors and the competition for college started. The outside activities kept them going, band for one and cycling for the other.
I am sure glad those days are over! I enjoy being with both of them as adults.

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Originally Posted by Robyn Maislin

My kids loved learning for learning's sake and did not give a **** about their grades, until they were juniors and the competition for college started. The outside activities kept them going, band for one and cycling for the other.
I am sure glad those days are over! I enjoy being with both of them as adults.

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Robyn, boy i agree with you. My sons are wonderful adults. When they live at home (only 1 does right now) there are minor problems, but they are such a pleasure to be around! And now the only "nagging" I do is to remind them to go to the doctor; all that other stuff is just NOT my problem.:D :D :D :D :D

Gee, I had this same problem with my ex-boyfriend. No motivation to get a good job, no motivation to get more education (he had a bachelor's but once in a while talked about wanting a master's), no motivation to do anything other than watch TV.

Not saying this is your son. But the problem is you can't motivate someone who doesn't WANT to BE motivated. But possibly sounds like some depression issues.