Bad Seattle Drivers GRRRRR

So in the past year or so there have been several fatal/severe accidents between cars and bikes in the area. Rather than highlight the need for better facilities and better driver/cylcist education it really seems to have (and I'm stealing from someone else here) given the local drivers a sense of road entitlement and made them worse!!!
I had some jerk buzz by me inches from my side today to get 10 feet ahead and stop at a stop light. So I pulled up next to him (normally I would take my place in line behind him)- I didn't say anything, I just wanted him to be aware that there was a cyclist on the road. He rolls down his window and says - do you need something? (this says to me he obviously knows he's done something wrong - otherwise why would he be assuming that I want anything) So all I say is -maybe you could get a little closer next time huh?..... He immediately turns to the new Seattle drivers excuse - when I see bikes stopping at stop signs then I'll give you room. WHAT! - first did he see me run a stop sign - no, he certainly did not and in any case what the h#ll does a cyclist running a stop sign have to do with the fact that he just put my life in danger!! When running a stop sign becomes a capital offense that can be enforced by civilans let me know, I'll start shooting all the cars that do California stops and make rights on red without stopping....
To make it even better he proceeds to turn right without signaling, tailgate another car down the street and then turn left without signaling. Where does he get off criticizing any cyclists about being scoff laws in the first place.

:mad: I just really hate that argument and its becoming more and more prevelent around here. When ever a cyclist gets hit its always - oh they are just asking for it - while in reality none of the bad accidents around here have had anything to do with the cyclists being scofflaws. Most of the ones I know about were caused by cars turning in front of cyclists descending a hill. But no, drivers here are beginning to feel its OK to menace a cyclist, since we are all bad people who run stop signs and lights and do a million other things just to annoy drivers. I'll admit to doing track stands at stop signs (I NEVER run red lights), but until all drivers have to open their door and put a foot on the pavement to prove that they are stopped I'll be unapologetic about that one. I'm stopped all right - I just don't unclip if I don't have to.

OK off my soap box for now. I'm just p*$$ed cause it seems like there are more people who have been passing way too close recently and they seem to feel like they think its entirely OK to do it since some cyclists break traffic laws - as if most drivers didn't also.

You know, it's odd. I used to think that living on the East Hill was tough because we don't really appear to have the 'educated' crowd that Seattle should have.

But, I've never had a driver even come close to me. I've never had things thrown at me. I've never had people swear at me. When I've had to take the lane to make left turns, the drivers have been quite understanding. True, I've had some people go fast around me to beat me to the light, but they have not buzzed me in doing so.

Knock on wood.

East Hill

Maybe he was from CA. :rolleyes: ;)

We used to blame a lot of our problems on California, but I can say that the talk show hosts have done bicyclists a horrible disservice. I wish I knew a litigious lawyer who wanted to take them on with a class action suit.
By stirring up hatred and anger in their listeners, they've changed the attitude
of drivers towards bikers here.
Eden, I'm sorry you ran into that idiot. At least you were prepared.

yeah, from all of the stuff I've read, it seems that cyclists and drivers are at war with eachother. I read an article about big peleton rides down in south florida and there really wasn't a lot of good arguments on why it should be outlawed or not be outlawed (there were a few though) and cyclists who are associated with peletons that take the entire road (yes, sometimes unneccessarily) give all cyclists a bad name and all cyclists are now demonized! Yet, the last time I checked, a cyclist doesn't have a good chance winning the battle against a car so why would a cyclist jerk around when it could her/him killed. Seems obvious to me, but hey what do I know, Im just a 'dumb cyclist';)
What really scared me were the comments left on the message board by both cyclists and drivers (but the drivers scared me more). Some of these comments were violent, ex:
loco
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Break out the pepper spray, guaranteed those bikes will move!
--
Cyclist Sucks
Hollywood, FL
I made a special set of extra long mirrors for my truck and go out on
sundays to take out the riders. It is so much fun, they eventually
learn that doubling up can get them hit. These bikers are a bunch of
idiots. Everyone should get extra long rearview mirrors.
--
bubba
Miami, FL
here's a thought, install a pepper spray nozzle on the right side of
your vehicle and give them a little love spray on your way by!

This frightens me but does not deter me from riding! In this case, we all need to be more considerate and respectful, for life is a precious thing (as cheesy as that sounds). Here are links to both the article and the message board:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...,7677208.story

http://www.topix.net/forum/source/so...3F7GKICLEAQIDG

I have seen similar stuff on Seattle Newpaper forums too. The nastiness and even death threats scares me to death.

When I think about it, I think about hte courage it takes people to stand up to that stuff (and the people who have done that for all and sundry reasons through the years and centuries).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eden

OK off my soap box for now. I'm just p*$$ed cause it seems like there are more people who have been passing way too close recently and they seem to feel like they think its entirely OK to do it since some cyclists break traffic laws - as if most drivers didn't also.

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Of course you are correct. It's also very human to feel the way you do now. I've been there many times. I've finally come to the realization that this is something that I cannot fix, so I'm going to cross it off the list of things for which I'm willing to devote good energy. Jerks (not bad drivers) own cars, and act like jerks when on the road. The unfortunate part is that this jerks are now deadly.

Know your risks, and be as safe as possible. I wish there was a better solution! :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VeloChick

Of course you are correct. It's also very human to feel the way you do now. I've been there many times. I've finally come to the realization that this is something that I cannot fix, so I'm going to cross it off the list of things for which I'm willing to devote good energy. Jerks (not bad drivers) own cars, and act like jerks when on the road. The unfortunate part is that this jerks are now deadly.

Know your risks, and be as safe as possible. I wish there was a better solution! :(

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You're right of course, but in the last few weeks, I have run into "nice guys"
where I work who are unreasonably PO'd at bikers, because they have been listening to angry rantings against bicyclists... These are people I have worked with for years, they mind their manners, are good to their wives and children... but their perception has changed, that we are the ENEMY, and foolish for even riding our bikes on the streets around here.
I am concerned that as perceptions change, folks that were never jerks before will be transformed into jerks... and endanger us some more.
I gave my DH a marine corps jersey for St V day; he plans to wear it on solo bike rides for "protection"

Yup, during my hill repeats on Tuesday I was buzzed by one driver (who nearly ran over a couple of ducks crossing the street about 10 feet in front of me) and then harassed by another. (I SWEAR it has not been like this until recently - maybe I've just had a bad couple of days) Grinding up the hill I was actually passing another cyclist and avoiding a badly torn up/sandy shoulder. Some guy comes up behind and beeps - when I don't immediately scurry out of his way he beeps more and drives up real slow beside me to give me the stink eye - and it was entirely unnecessary - its a low traffic street, the view in front of us was clear and no one was coming to block him from just passing me. Sheesh - some of these people really do think that we have no right to be out on the road and they are out to show us how bad we are. The people who stir up bike dislike not only spread the idea that we should be hated, they spead distruths about what rights bike have on the roads. I am sometimes afraid that some driver who wants to "teach me a lesson" by passing too close or some such other bone headed manoever will hurt me.

It sounds like you are having a run of bad luck, I have not heard of a dramatic change in incidence of idiots from the RCC guys; and they ride in the dark !
sorry about that. If they knew how cute and little you were :confused:

Try riding another foot or three out into the lane. I do *not* understand why, but it's happened too often to deny, but drivers seem to get less annoyed. (It *might* help to be pedaling as opposed to coasting - I always make sure I am.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geonz

Try riding another foot or three out into the lane. I do *not* understand why, but it's happened too often to deny, but drivers seem to get less annoyed. (It *might* help to be pedaling as opposed to coasting - I always make sure I am.)

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I don't think Eden knows how to coast . :D :D :D :D

Like many, I find this thread disturbing--whatever happened to yield to lesser mode of a traffic? Drivers Ed 101: car yields to bike yields to pedestrian yields to ducks. We're, at best, 1/10th of the weight of the cars and trucks. We don't stand a chance if they don't give us one. I'm saddened that people think we're targets and saddened more that other people are swayed by the angry people.

But, more so given the timing of this thread. Other threads here at TE in the last week have been on reducing ecological footprint. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Seattle area is one where the weather would easily permit nearly year round commuting. Thus, to hear that the drivers aren't happy with cyclists makes my green heart turn red.

And it doesn't have to be that way. In the last week, the pro race on Mallorca just took place (more synchronicity). I rode on Mallorca. The roads are narrow and are often twisty, turnies with blind corners. Yet a bicycle doesn't need to fear (caution, yes, but fear, no). The drivers are courteous. Beeps of are of "hey, I'm here and passing you" not 'get off the road". The cars are looking for you just like they are looking for other cars. Sure, bicycle tourism fills their winter, but many of those cars are also tourists. We can co-exist. It is sad that some think we cannot.

But, I will sieze my right to be on that road. And I will continue to yield to the slower mode of transportation. It is just common courtesy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geonz

Try riding another foot or three out into the lane. I do *not* understand why, but it's happened too often to deny, but drivers seem to get less annoyed. (It *might* help to be pedaling as opposed to coasting - I always make sure I am.)

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For the most part I already do - Unless there is a large clean shoulder, I am a big proponant of taking the lane as I too have found that drivers will give you more room if they have to cross the center line rather than thinking that they can squeeze by, plus we have a lot of on street parking around here and there is no way I'm putting myself in the door zone... the problem is recently people have been squeezing by *anyway* - I believe we have a 3 foot passing law here, but most drivers are not educated about bicycles at all. We also have a law that says you cannot pass another vehicle if there is a bicycle coming towards you (this after a school teacher was killed by a person passing who hit her head on), but no one knows about that one and I've never seen it enforced. And Mimi is correct I rarely coast :rolleyes: at least not when I'm out on my own unless I am coming to a stop or going downhill.

Sounds like we need to get some jerseys made up with a big yelllow caution sign on the back that says "CYCLING IS NOT A CRIME" ... Kinda like the "skateboarding is not a crime" stickers my bro used to have back in the day...
Sigh....

I hear that all the time, too, about "when bikers follow the rules..." In fact, someone I work with said this to me one day about bike-to-work month (he smokes, so what does he care about getting on a bike, his own health, or the life of a biker, right?).

In the Seattle area the Cascade Bicycle Club just launched a Give Cyclists 3 Feet campaign. I don't know about the rest of you aroud here, but I freaked out when I heard that. What, now cars that before gave me a wide berth are thinking it's OK to skirt me within a yard? If I don't have a bike lane and that's all the room I'm afforded them I'm taking the lane! Cascade does so many good things for the cycling community in Washington, but I think this one should have been thought through a little more. 3' means 3" to some.

Well - it is the law around here (WA state that is - and many other states for that matter) that cars must give at least 3 feet when passing a cyclist. I find it pretty amazing that you feel most cars give you enough space already. I would heartily support anyone's efforts to get the word out to the driving world that they need to give 3 feet as I am routinely passed with inches to spare. If I were taller.... some of those mirrors really stick out! I don't think that most motorists are aware that they are doing it and just how dangerous it is - I think they both don't know about the 3 foot law and just how wide their vehicle actually is. If spreading knowledge of the 3 foot law gets them at least thinking about leaving more space I'm all for it!

I didn't know about the 3' rule. Sounds like that would be a good public service announcement or should go on billboards or something.

Some of those mirrors are downright scary. I AM tall and have no desire to be thwacked! I wondered if it was a law that the mirrors had to be closer to the vehicle if the vehicle isn't towing anything but I guess most of them don't adjust that way.

Is there any campaign to educate drivers? Beyond drivers education, that is.

All right. So I've now heeded the warning too about mirrors from you. Especially as boating / RV-camping season arrives in my area and there's an endless supply of hazards.

I too suspect that a lot of those folks passing within inches just breeze on by wondering what we're doing riding out in front of them in their way....I think a lot of what I see is laziness. I'm still freaked about the 3 Feet campaign and haven't put those stickers on anything. Though maybe I'm pretending I have an invisible fence protecting me, too.

Are there stickers? And if so, where can I get some?!

Micki Rider, are you riding in Bellvue? The closest I've come to it is off the 520 trail where the lights are. Scary stuff even in crossing the streets - drivers don't even look before making right hand turns sometimes!!! I'm still really squeamish about riding on the street unless there is a Very Wide Bikelane.

Today, I saw a billboard on 15th Ave (near Interbay) that urged motorists to give cyclists 3' of room. I was surprised and glad to see that a movement has begun to educate drivers a bit more.

I also saw a bumper sticker that I really like...it said, "Start seeing bicycles."

I have some Teigyr. Get me your DH's interoffice mail address and i will mail you a couple

I wonder what would happen if we all used our cell phones to report (with license plates) any driver breaking these laws (the 3 foot law, the road rage/aggressive driving laws)? Just call 911, give a location, a description, and a plate number?

In a related type of thing, I put the WA State Litter hotline on speed/voice dial on my cell phone. When I'm following anyone throwing cigarettes or anything out their window, I call the hotline. The hotline mails a notice to the registered owner of the vehicle. I don't know if it does any good, but I must say that making the call helps me calm down. I feel proactive...like I've done something. Wouldn't it be amazing if Cascade or other clubs could partner with law enforcement for some sort of hotline?

I like the idea of calling in drivers who ignore the rule. I wonder if anyone will do anything though? I guess I have had THE worst experiences ever with the police up here. Apathy, would be the word. I know they crack down on carpool lane offenders and litterers but those offences have their own reporting numbers.

You can call about agressive driving and road rage (there is information here http://www.wsp.wa.gov/traveler/roadrage.htm ) There is also an online form for areas that you've observed multiple acts of road rage or agressive driving. I wonder if I should report the area in front of Redhook over in Redmond. It rarely fails that when I am riding over there I am passed in the turn lane - while I am signaling that I will be making a left - by a car who does not wish to wait until I move over. I had some idiot do that just this Wednesday. I came around the corner and stayed in the lane, as I would be moving over to the left turn lane in about a block, as soon as I signaled left the jerk revs it up and speeds around me on my left then slams on the brakes, turns sharply- squealing tires - the wholen nine yards - into the brewery and comes to a stop in the entrance. I think he may have been thinking about getting out of the car, but it turned out there was another cyclist behind us who saw it all.... I don't know what he was playing at, but if he had just been patient for about 10 seconds I would have moved into the left turn lane and turned left onto the trail. That's the second place where people do this to me, on my way home I get passed by dumb@sses doing the same thing. I come out of a light and have to go 1/2 a block before turning left - it rarely fails that someone comes around me on my left as I am signaling my left hand turn...... they would never try this if I was in a car.

Hey - Sorry - I'm back on this topic now.

The Give 3 Feet sickers are available through Cascade Bicycle Club. They've created a website for the campaign, too. It's www.give3feet.org

They'll hook you up with stickers if Mimi hasn't already sent them to you.

Go figure - I had so many new and freaky things happen in traffic on my 5th commute to work (Bellevue to Tukwila) yesterday that on National Bike To Work Day, I drove. What a drag. To top that off, freeway traffic was so bad this morning that I realized I'd rather be spending any harried time on my bike than driving in a line where I'm more likely to get rear-ended. Bad decision to drive today. I should have bucked up, but I'll calm down and start bike commuting again next week.

Thank you for all the links! I really didn't know all the WA bicycle rules and found it all very interesting. It seems like the laws are very much in favor of the cyclist despite the fact that drivers ignore some of them. I didn't realize we had the choice to ride on the sidewalk, I always thought we weren't allowed to. Not that I'd want to, of course, but sometimes it's the only safe option.

I have saved all the info and will start acting on it. I think dangerous intersections or areas should be reported as should dangerous drivers.

Thanks again :D and Eden, Be Safe! (same goes for everyone else, of course)

Yes, thank you very much, Eden, for the info. And, I definitely think you should report what you have been describing to us.

Nobody likes them. They look dorky. Geek alert.

But honestly, when I did a big organized ride and had a honkin' orange flag on my bike (required by the ride) cars gave me wide berth. If only so they wouldn't scratch their car on the flagpole. :p I kept using that flag for a while on my bike commute. It was amazing.

If I get into commuting on the busier streets or if I start hauling a trailer, you can bet I'll be putting a flag on my bike again.

I don't mind looking stupid if it helps drivers see me.

Starfish - yep, me too; I've had the litter hotline on my speed dial for a while now...and use it too. It catches my eye when I spot something being tossed from a car window and, you know what? it's always been a cigarette butt! I react as a rider, in that it is not only littering to me, but a fire hazard too! What if that still burning tobacco hit my skin while I'm riding near that car? Arrrghh, I'll be damned if I agree to some idiot's careless branding on my arm, face, etc! And, how about anyone driving in a convertible getting hit?
It's just amazing that people still smoke, then carelessly toss their burning butts out car windows without a thought as to who else they could be hurting or maybe even causing a wild fire if it hits dry brush during our summer season.
If the letter that is sent helps get one person to pause and think before doing that again, then it's worth it and yeah, it helps calm me down too!