Am I being overzealous?

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10-13-2006, 07:12 AM
cherinyc

Am I being overzealous?

So now that I have been riding for almost 4 months, I have begun to feel comfortable.....feeling comfortable about tackling some bike maintenance type issues. Notice I am not sounding too fully committed?
I decided I wanted to do a complete cleaning, so I found a GREAT article on TE:
http://www.teamestrogen.com/articles/asa_happy.asp
and decided to give it a try (to my BF's dismay of course). But I come from a long line of mechanics, so I'm not too afraid of taking things apart etc. Don't always get them back together....but I digress.

1) Anyhoo - I got the bike on the stand: CHECK
2) Got both wheels off: CHECK
3) Take chain off of bike and let soak: CH- um...I need a chain breaking tool? new pins? huh?
3a) I send IM to BF who is working late - "Do we have a chain breaking tool and new pins?" Response - "Yes, have tool - No, don't have pins - Why are you taking off the chain? It's not dirty enough. Please wait for me to be home."

3b) Go to LBS (whom I purchased bike from), ask about chain breaking tool and new pins - get question "why do you want to take your chain off? Probably don't need to yet"
LBS guy gives me a left over power link from Sachs chain - quick lesson on what a chain breaking tool looks like/ how it works - and I go home.

That's as far as I've got. Why am I getting this reaction? How often am I supposed to do a thorough cleaning? Is it bad to clean your chain too often?
10-13-2006, 07:48 AM
indysteel

I am no expert on chain cleaning (yet), but I've done a fair amount of reading on it and can tell you tell you that there are SO many opinions on the best way of doing it, the best materials to use, how often to do it, whether to do it on the bike or off, etc. There are several thread on TE about it, lots more on www.roadbikereview.com, and an article on www.sheldonbrown.com (Here's the exact link: http://sheldonbrown.com/chains.html#cleaning). There is lots of conflicting advice out there and if you ask 10 people, you're likely to get 10 opinions.

As to whether it's time to clean your chain, that's hard to say. It depends largely on how many miles you have on the bike, the conditions you ride in, whether you regularly wipe your chain down and relube, and what kind of lube you use (dry, wet, wax, etc.). I cleaned mine recently at the 1,000 mark, and even though I wipe it down pretty thoroughly every 100 miles, it was pretty darn dirty.

When I cleaned my chain, I left it on the bike (I have a Campy ultranarrow chain and don't want to invest the money needed to buy the right chain tool to break it, buy a new masterlink, etc.). I sprayed it with an orange degreaser then scrubbed it with a toothbrush and soapy water until it "seemed" clean, rinsed it with fresh water and then dried it before relubing. I also cleaned the cassette, pulleys and chainrings the same way.

The toothbrush alone probably doesn't get it entirely clean and he degreaser will wear the chain down if not properly rinsed. I'm not too worried about it though. I think I'll stick with the toothbrush for now but make sure to rinse the chain a little better next time and will leave it out in the open air for a while to dry it before relubing. I am also interested in trying Prolink lube. Apparently, this "cleans" your chain while lubing it as well. Many swear by it.
10-13-2006, 08:38 AM
Kalidurga

I'll reiterate what Indysteel said: "As to whether it's time to clean your chain, that's hard to say" and I'll add that it's also hard to say how you need to clean your chain. I'd guess, though, that unless you're riding thousands of miles and/or through mud or dust, you probably don't need to go to the trouble of removing your chain.

The spray/scrub method or an attachable chain cleaner are probably the most you would need. As I've recently learned, you do need to be sure that you remove all degreaser from the chain, if you use one to clean it, otherwise your lube won't adhere properly.

I use Rock-n-Roll Gold lube, which is one of the self-cleaning synthetic lubes on the market. So far this summer, there've only been a couple of times I've felt the chain was dirty enough to hook up the chain cleaner and scrub it. Most times, a good wipe down has been enough. When it begins to look dry or squeak, then I freewheel it while spraying it with a good stream of Rock-n-Roll, then wipe it until there's barely anything left to rub off. Then I pull the back wheel off and clean the rear cogs thoroughly, and check the derailleurs. It's possible that that's all you need, too, but it all depends on how much riding you do and under what conditions.
10-13-2006, 08:45 AM
Grog

I usually clean my bike every 500 km, more often in the winter, less in the summer. (It has been a while...) I've never taken the chain off and don't intend to until I have to replace it (scheduled for the spring of 2007). I just clean it with degreaser, a chain-cleaning thingie (the Park Tool version, works better than cheaper ones) and A LOT of water to rinse, then re-lube...

I don't think it's necessary to take off the chain unless the bike is REALLY EXTREMELY dirty....
10-13-2006, 09:03 AM
cherinyc

well, it seems to me that the method suggested by the TE article would be pretty easy. Remove chain...drop in bucket of hot, soapy water....let sit....scrub a bit....rinse and dry.
I guess I am wondering, is it bad to remove the chain?
10-13-2006, 09:46 AM
Blueberry

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherinyc

I guess I am wondering, is it bad to remove the chain?

With a power link - no. With normal pins - yes, unless you are very careful in replacing them with new ones. Apparently new (thin to accomodate more "speeds") are not as robust when it comes to being broken and put back together.

I always ask the bike shop for a power link, and that solves the problem! I feel much better being able to put in a bottle of degreaser (diluted simple green) and shake:) Seems to get the crud out a little better.

Now if I could just get the blasted crud from between the cogs - need a new brush!

As far as whether it's time....it really depends (as others have said) on mileage and road conditions. I used to live in a coastal area and was constantly de-sanding, de-gritting and re-lubing to prevent wear and tear and rust. Now, it's not too bad. I do clean (at least wipe) and re-lube after rain. But, obviously, someone who rides 100 miles a month won't be on the same maintenance schedule as someone who rides 500 miles a month!

Good for you for learning to clean/take apart. I'm still learning in a big way, but it's fun, and it's empowering:)

Carrie Anne
10-13-2006, 10:18 AM
han-grrl

chain removal

First of all, i think its great that you are getting familiar with your bike (more on that in a minute)

As for taking off the chain, every time you "break" the chain, that is a new weak point in it. the link doesn't move as well as before, and can cause problems over time with shifting. I ride a mountain bike, and i clean my chain pretty much every ride. road biking - as someone said, depends on how often you bike, and on what types of road. it doesn't hurt the bike to clean the chain using a chain cleaner tool. but breaking it every time isn't a great idea.

now for the bike mechanics stuff...all too often i see women too afraid to touch their bikes. i flatted on a ride, and the women i was riding with were amazed to see me flip my bike over and start working on it. i think women take on the "damsel in distress" thing too much when it comes to their bikes (sorry! i'm not trying to offend anyone!) so i think its really great when i read the posts about you ladies getting your hands dirty! Way to go!
10-13-2006, 10:21 AM
cherinyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by CA_in_NC

Good for you for learning to clean/take apart. I'm still learning in a big way, but it's fun, and it's empowering:)

Carrie Anne

yes, it is empowering, and helps me feel less afraid of breaking something on my (relatively speaking) expensive investment.
I realized a few days ago, after bringing in my car for a scheduled "tune up" and getting a phone call from the dealership saying I needed over $1400 worth of work to my 3 year old car :eek: :mad: that I am pretty close to knowing more about my 3 month old bike. For the cost of the up keep, I could buy another bike.:rolleyes:
10-13-2006, 10:30 AM
cherinyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by han-grrl

As for taking off the chain, every time you "break" the chain, that is a new weak point in it. the link doesn't move as well as before, and can cause problems over time with shifting.

But does it still weaken the chain if I add the power link, and break the chain that way every time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by han-grrl

i think women take on the "damsel in distress" thing too much when it comes to their bikes (sorry! i'm not trying to offend anyone!) so i think its really great when i read the posts about you ladies getting your hands dirty! Way to go!

Grrrrrrr.....hate the "damsel in distress" approach. I think it bothers my BF a bit sometimes (not always) that I try to do everything myself though. I admit when I can't reach, lift something...but if I admit that, it's b/c I probably already tried first. I will usually either go get a ladder/step stool or try to lever something up though, if no one is around. I call it self-sufficient, BF calls it stubborn. Tom-ay-toe....Tom-ah-toe...
10-13-2006, 11:56 AM
Blueberry

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherinyc

But does it still weaken the chain if I add the power link, and break the chain that way every time?

I don't believe so, as the power link is designed to be where you break the chain, and you aren't actually pulling out pins (the big problem) to remove the chain. I haven't used them long enough to tell, so ymmv. I'll report as I get more miles. Also, take a look at http://sheldonbrown.com/chains.html (which, in a nutshell says you can clean on the bike or off, but that if you clean off, you should get a powerlink).

Good luck!

Carrie Anne
10-13-2006, 01:01 PM
SouthernBelle

A chain cleaner will probably be my next purchase. the toothbrush method is so hard on my teeth later. :p I do spray and wipe down about every hundred miles.
10-13-2006, 02:54 PM
spokewench

Breaking the chain - really not necessary

There are several ways to clean the chain without taking it apart. There are chain cleaning tools (which I really do not like, but some people do, htey have reservoirs where you put degreaser (like citrus related non toxic degreaser in) put on the chain it has a wheel and brush and this cleans your chain. Some people love this.

The way I do it is as follows:

Put the bike somewhere where I can pedal the pedals around in circles, first take some simple green and spray on the chain, take a rag and get the worst of the grease off. Pedal the pedals, hold the rag sort of still on the chain. To clean it even better, get a bunch of Q-tips, spray the chain bit by bit and run the q-tips thru each of the chain (rings) to get the gunk out. Make sure you clean the areas of the derailer where the chain goes thru etc. You can get this really well with the Q-tips. Yes, kind of time consuming, but yes, kind of cathartic (I think that is the word). Then put a tiny bit of oil on each link slowly, slowly and rub off with a clean rag using the same technique as above. This works for me. I never take my chain apart unless it has a problem. I do this on my mountain bike more often, not so often on my road bike except when it is bad weather and rainy or snowy.
10-13-2006, 10:35 PM
lph

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherinyc

Grrrrrrr.....hate the "damsel in distress" approach. I think it bothers my BF a bit sometimes (not always) that I try to do everything myself though. I admit when I can't reach, lift something...but if I admit that, it's b/c I probably already tried first. I will usually either go get a ladder/step stool or try to lever something up though, if no one is around. I call it self-sufficient, BF calls it stubborn. Tom-ay-toe....Tom-ah-toe...

Heh - I always try to do everything myself first too, but I was kind of pissed off the time I actually was a damsel in distress -
I had gotten one of my elastic baggage strap thingies royally stuck around a wheel hub and I was on the side of the road with my bike upside down and the wheel off trying to peel it out -
and not a single one of the commuters passing me, all guys, stopped to ask if I needed help.

Maybe I should have unzipped my top a bit more.
10-14-2006, 12:58 AM
Mimosa

What I normally do with a chain is clean it every couple of months with a degreaser while leaving it on the bike. And once every year (or somewhat longer) I totally replace the chain, they are not the expensive (about 20 dollars or so?).

And yes, the sort of grease you use on the chain also helps to keep it from getting filled with dirt.
10-14-2006, 03:31 AM
SouthernBelle

I just realized it's time to change to a cold weather lube. :mad:

NO! Don't wanna.
10-14-2006, 03:42 AM
DebW

I've been breaking chains for 30 years with no ill effects, but these have been 5-speed to 8-speed chains. Currently use SRAM 8-speeds chains, but have never used the narrower 9 or 10-speed chains or the ones that require replacement pins when broken. The PowerLinks are certainly more convenient for general cleaning purposes, though, and I'd recommend them. You will need a chaintool for replacing a chain, though, as they have to be cut to length. I wrote a very detailed description of how to break and install a chain with a chaintool in this thread: http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=9930 assuming the chain has reusable pins (not the kind requiring replacement). You do need to know how to remove a stiff link after re-installing the pin, but drilling a pin in and out shouldn't compromise the chain flexibility or chain life in my experience. Though the ultra-narrow 10-speed chains may be a somewhat different beast.
10-14-2006, 05:14 AM
Kalidurga

Deb's response makes a good point that applies to almost any sort of maintenance on a bike these days: You should know what you're working with. I don't know much about bike maintenance, but I can say that I've learned there's a lot more to know than I thought there was.

It's great to not be afraid to take stuff apart and put it back together, but you should probably take the time to learn the specifics of the components you're dealing with first. What goes for a hybrid or an mtb might not be applicable for the comparable component on a road bike, and vice versa, or even from one road bike to another. And, what's necessary for certain types of riding may not be for other types of riding. Between this forum and Google, getting the necessary information for your specific components and the sort of riding you do should be fairly easy. (And which, of course, you're doing by starting this thread.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by CA_in_NC

Now if I could just get the blasted crud from between the cogs - need a new brush!

I use the edge of an old rag between each row of cogs, pulled back and forth "shoe-shine" method. Then I go back and wipe off the edges of the teeth as necessary. My cogs are probably cleaner than my chain. :rolleyes:

And, I think Spokewench wins the prize for loving her bike a bit more obsessively than the rest of us ;) (Though I may have to give the Q-tips a try next time I feel my pony needs a thorough cleaning...)
10-15-2006, 05:39 PM
Dogmama

I use one of those chain cleaners. THEN - here's a nifty trick:

I take canned air & spray between the links (keep a rag on the other side to catch the chain gunk.) Voila! A clean and dry chain, ready for lube & ride!
10-16-2006, 09:04 AM
cherinyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by lph

and not a single one of the commuters passing me, all guys, stopped to ask if I needed help.

Maybe I should have unzipped my top a bit more.

hee hee....ok - maybe damsel in distress is befitting to CERTAIN situations ;)

I find it funny that men will be "selectively" helpful. Living at the beach in Florida, I fished off the surf a lot. The men were always quick to come over, give advice, ask if I needed anything, etc....UNTIL, the one day I caught a hammerhead shark and couldn't get the darned thing off the hook w/o fear of losing a couple fingers. Not a soul came by to help me. I would look over at various people and they would look away.