Interesting Information

For those of you that don't get the RoadBikeRider newsletter there was a very interesting study done regarding cars and bikes on the road:

Apparently a researcher loaded himself up with sensors et al and rode his bike on the road to study the relationship between cars and bikes. His findings were surprising in some aspects, not so surprising to any who commutes!

Most cars will pass a bike on the avg 4.3 feet away.

Trucks pass bikes 7 inches closer

Buses pass bikes 9 inches closer :eek: (like we didn't know that)

A helmeted rider will get passed closer than an unhelmeted rider - he was guessing drivers see unhelmeted riders as being less experienced.

He also wore a wig to see if it was different for "women" riders and it was:

Vehicles pass female riders on the avg 5.? feet away.
(Hmmmmm.....guess they think women riders are as bad as they think women drivers are??)

In Seattle, generally speaking, the busdriver is our friend. I have never had a problem with a bus driver. They are great at following at a safe distance
and giving us plenty of room.

I guess I'll keep my hair longer!

Do you think that how closely a vehicle passes a cyclist is directly related to the width of the vehicle, i.e. wider vehicles pass closer because the driver doesn't want to cross the lane lines? Probably most drivers are more aware of where the left edge of their vehicle is than where it's right edge is. But scary that the vehicles with bigger bow shocks are passing closer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DebW

Do you think that how closely a vehicle passes a cyclist is directly related to the width of the vehicle, i.e. wider vehicles pass closer because the driver doesn't want to cross the lane lines? Probably most drivers are more aware of where the left edge of their vehicle is than where it's right edge is. But scary that the vehicles with bigger bow shocks are passing closer.

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That's what I was thinking about those results.

Regarding wearing a wig....they probably passed farther away because they didn't want to get too close to the nut case in drag! :eek:

My first thought on trucks passing closer is that they are more likely to be male drivers. Up here "in the pickers" of northern Wisconsin, I've noticed an attitude among some men who like their hunting, fishing,etc. and prefer trucks, snowmobiles, boats and 4 wheelers. Their thought process is that they have to pay to register and use roads and trials and they really don't like the fact that cyclists don't have to pay to register their bikes to ride on the roads (we do have to on the trails). Therefore, they don't feel they should be on the road. I've heard more than once that said truck drivers will actually drive CLOSER to cyclists on the road to scare them.

Nice, huh?? On the busiest street in Wausau (Grand Ave) cyclists have to ride on the sidewalk by law.

I wondered that about the buses also although we have a bus driver here that likes to "buzz" cyclists. I believe he's been reported but I"m not sure.

as for the response to a female cyclists: my male c-workers all think it's coz the male drivers are slowing down to check out the female rider. Thought that was an interesting different point of view.

I think there is definitely some very revealing information coming out of this study. For motorists to pass so much closer or farther based on a few variables like helmet/no-helmet, or gasp, guy or girl is a big deal.

I have short hair, wear graphic/team bike clothes, and have, as C-Mac confirmed, a racer girl body - so does that mean if I put on a waist length curly blonde wig and went for a spin that I'd suddenly get buzzed by cars less often? And if so why?

It seems to me that it indicates drivers think of women riders as less competent, more unpredictable, or simply dangerous to paint jobs on their shiny new BMW's. Which goes with what was said earlier about motorists probably thinking women riders are poor cyclists (or at least worse than men).

The other twist is the helmet vs. no-helmet thing. Essentially this study is suggesting you are going to get less room with a helmet. If you are getting less room then you are closer to being hit. Not at all encouraging and somewhat defeats the purpose of wearig a helmet to begin with. Granted, I always ride with one.

Attitudes defintely need to change among motorists. When gas hits $5+/gallon, it might just start happening.

It was already established in TE common sense that skorts and feminine-looking jerseys did provide a bit more space from motor vehicles passing by. I'm not surprised by the results in this regard. I think it has to do with our society generally considering the women (and children) as more vulnerable.

Regarding the helmet, I'm a bit puzzled because I know the guy did the study while always wearing the same clothes and using the same bike. I know that, personally, when I see a cyclist with no helmet on a city bike, big-box-store bike, etc. I will probably treat that 'vehicle' more like I would treat a pedestrian, give more space, etc. If it's a person on a road bike with a helmet, I sort of expect him or her to be able to hold his or her line a bit more, although this is probably a bad assumption to have. I do give a lot of space anyway. If I see a roadie without a helmet going really fast, I think this guy (usually it's a guy) is nuts and I do everything I can to avoid him, and expect any random move from him, so I keep as far as I can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mimitabby

In Seattle, generally speaking, the busdriver is our friend. I have never had a problem with a bus driver. They are great at following at a safe distance
and giving us plenty of room.

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You're joking, right? The busses are HORRIBLE here. Horrible. I've had a bus driver force me off the road, then stop his bus, open the door and yell at me. And would have busses honk and then pass within inches at least once a week on my commute.

How any guy can slap on a wig and think he'll pass for a woman on a bike to see how cars react to a woman cyclist is just mind-blowing.
When riding alone, I too, wear team jerseys and try my best to look androgynous (I have short hair, too). And there is no part of me that could ever be described as "petite" - except perhaps my bra size! Yes, and I thank my mother for passing on my football player body shape. Good Polish stock.
Yet while wearing team colors, helmet, and dark glasses, I've had mere nodding aquaintances talk to me in the elevator at work and say "Hey, I saw you on the bike this morning." So much for travelling in disguise!
So, if I can't pass for a guy...I bet money he can't pass for a woman.

In Brisbane the bus drivers wave! I think it's cool! Of course this particular bus driver does look like santa.

Ever think that trucks and buses pass closer because they're significantly wider and take up almost all the left hand lane?? (Sorry, RIGHT in the states)

They shouldn't have been included in the analysis, or if they were in his article it would have been better if the above was mentioned. or even some data from hos Automobile Club, or the government suggesting just how wide trucks and busses are thereby strengthening his data that trucks pass too close.

I get spooked in my car when a truck over takes me because of how close they pass.

As for the unhelmeted thing, I'm guessing they're more afraid of hitting an unhelmeted rider because they're more likely to die in a crash and put them in jail for life. O_O

The guy makes a whole lot of assumptions in the inhterpretation of that study... such as taht the difference in proximity translates into differences in collisions.

Most accidents are, simply, not caused by vehicles passing bikes at all... and even fewer from passing them too closely. Our most recent (too recent - about a week ago) fatality was from a phone impaired driver who simply swerved and struck the guy. I can't help but wonder if he'd have been safer out in the road instead of on the shoulder... because she might just have known he was there at all.

But hey, let's *all* don wigs :-)

I passed the link from that study

http://www.bath.ac.uk/news/articles/...ing110906.html

on to the MBTA (local transit agency) after getting passed by a bus a mite too close this morning. I told them exactly where and when buses are passing me too close, so they could track down the driver if they want. And I encouraged them to educate their drivers regarding proper passing distance and speed. We'll see if anything changes.

Just thought I'd post a quick note to say that there was a similar experiment in England a while ago.

An experienced touring cyclist went out in his normal gear: no helmet; ordinary clothes etc. Then he went out again in helmet, luminous jacket and all the safety gear, and found that vehicles gave him a lot less room when overtaking, pulled out in front of him and generally gave him much less respect. He took it to be because other road users took him to be "safe" and so didn't have to worry about being respectful.

He then went out in the cycling policeman's uniform. He had no trouble then!

http://www.helmets.org/walkerstudy.htm has an interesting analysis of that study, which notes some of the same issues I thought of, primarily the whole assumption that helmets are "the factor" - and also that 3 inches closer actually means more likely to be hit.
Our recent fatality was riding off the road on the shoulder, if my information is correct, and a phone-impaired driver swerved enough to take him out. So, most traffic was passing with all kinds of distance, but partially *because* that distance was enough to put him out of the "attention range," he's gone.
That article points out also that the roads are *very* different in the UK.

Wow -- looks like I'm a day late to this party. Helmets do not "improve safety." This seems to be the basis for the guy's argument, and, as most daily-riding cyclists know, all helmets do is protect your head. There are ancillary effects (getting called a dork, having a place to mount your light, etc.), but helmets only do one thing: protect your head. Helmets don't improve safety. These things do:
• Being an aware and experienced rider
• Riding on a low-risk facility
• Riding with aware and experienced facility co-users
• Communicating with your facility co-users with your voice, bell or horn
• Signaling to traffic and obeying traffic laws while behaving in a predictable fashion (i.e. "like a car").

Wearing a helmet just reduces your chances of severe insult to the organ you keep in your skull -- NOTHING MORE. Further, the connection of "bicyclists who wear helmets are more likely to be hit by a motor vehicle" and "I really doubt if it’s necessary to wear a helmet while riding my bike to work on the bike trail" when cars are a factor in the former and are not in the latter... okay, soooo not gonna go there.

The study is spurious at best (the results are observed, not causal). YMMV. :)

I know cycling police/security officers are far more common these days. Has anyone considered buying a couple unlabled 'official-looking' jerseys and/or jacket (yellow on top with black down under) for commuting?

I know you can legally (in the States) buy clothes that read 'Security' because it's such a general term (and security officers have few or no rights the general public doesn't have)

It might make life a little safer for us out there.

exDH and I had matching jackets that looked a lot like bike-officers' jackets, and we had a *lot* of respect, biking together. ...and we had one drunk student yell "F***ing Pigs!!!" out the window of a BMW. We only wished we could be... then we'd write her smart *** a ticket (or so)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DebW

I passed the link from that study

http://www.bath.ac.uk/news/articles/...ing110906.html

on to the MBTA (local transit agency) after getting passed by a bus a mite too close this morning. I told them exactly where and when buses are passing me too close, so they could track down the driver if they want. And I encouraged them to educate their drivers regarding proper passing distance and speed. We'll see if anything changes.

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I just received the following letter regarding my complaint to the MBTA about their bus operators:

Dear Ms. W,

Thank you for your letter about bus operators driving dangerously when
passing cyclists. We appreciate hearing from you and we are very sorry
for the operators' behavior. There is no excuse for it.

The type of behavior you describe goes against all our operators'
training.

Operators driving in this manner will face discipline. If this happens
in the future, please provide us with the date, location, bus route,
direction traveled, location and, if possible, the four-digit vehicle
number. The vehicle number is visibly located on the outside of the bus
on the front, back and side and also inside the bus. With this
information we will identify, interview and re-instruct individual
operators.

Again, we extend our apologies. Thank you again for writing.

MBTA Feedback

Hey Deb:

That's awesome -- I'm really happy that the MBTA responded to you. What you did will help all cyclists!

Thanks for letting us know.

Peace & Love,

Denise

Nice, Deb! Thanks for posting that.

I'd heard about the study on the radio, but somehow missed this thread. It's good to see a full discussion. As LisaB. said, "The study is spurious at best (the results are observed, not causal)."

I give cyclists as much room as I can, period. I give extra room to non-helmet wearers, because I assume that they're stupid as it is. Given that they're stupid and don't value their own brains, I presume that they may make other stupid decisions. As I don't want to end up in an ER or court room with them, I cut them a wide bearth. The dingbats who ride, oblivious, with their ipods in and helmets dangling from the handlebars are a particular annoyance to me. But they're not as likely to be daredevils like the roadies with no helmets. Oblivious, however, is very dangerous on Chicago streets. The other night I spotted a guy in dark clothes, on a bike with no lights, coming toward me the wrong way down a one way street. Of course, on his head he sported only a baseball cap. There was no one behind me, so I just crawled to a stop in my car and let him pass me, going the wrong way. He stared at me as if *I'd* lost my mind. But I wasn't going to keep driving straight at him when I had no idea what bone-headed move he might make. At least I had headlights and bright red tail lights, and if someone were coming behind me, I could start creeping forward again until he passed.