Move from triple to compact is killing me.

I recently got a new bike (Trek Madone 5.2 WSD). She's lovely, but KILLING me on hills. I have a bad hip due to damage from something similar to rheumatoid arthritis. My hill strategy in the past was to spin up the hills. I can't now, and it's hurting like heck AND I'm slower. Not cool! Before I got the Madone, I was able to avg 18+ on hilly rides, now I'm lucky to avg 16.

The old bike is a Specialized Tricross triple with FSA 53/39/30 crankset and Deore(?) 11-34 cassette (MTB cassette). I was spinning up large hills in 'super granny' as I call it :)

The Madone has an Ultegra compact crankset 50/34 and 12-27 cassette (recently switched to that from 11-25 which has helped a good bit, but not enough).

I've considered switching out the crankset for a Triple, but it only gets me to a gain ratio of 2.2 (vs. 2.5 on the current setup ) which seems pretty far from the 1.7 gain ratio I had with 'super granny' on the triple. Thoughts? Would the extra gear make that much of a difference? What costs would be associated with that other than the crankset?

Current strategy: Build up muscle strength around the hips (suggestions on that are welcome). Don't ride with my usual riding partners so I don't feel like a loser when they drop me on the hills. Ride the Tricross on hilly rides once 'cross season is over.

Any other suggestions? I'm feeling really beat down right now. I at least realize there's a reason I've been so much slower now, but it's still demoralizing.

bummer!

Why did you get a bike without a triple? I don't think you're going to be able to get stronger fast enough to enjoy hills on that new bike.

I could be wrong, but I have a vague memory of a thread about this somewhere where there is a 10 speed cassette that goes from 11-34 - I think i remember Debw & Luna cycles commenting on it, it was about a cyclocross bike and I think they were also talking about whether you could use 10 speed shifters for 9 speed cassettes in the back as well.

It does require all new shifters, but:
You actually might be better off going to a 9 speed and putting a 11-34 mountain biking cassette in the back instead of changing to a triple...

If you don't want to get new shifters...
If you get a smaller bcd compact crankset, you could get a compact crankset with 46 & 30 tooth chainrings or something like that... But I don't know that's going to help you anymore than the triple.
http://blogs.phred.org/blogs/alex_we.../01/22/95.aspx

I'd give yourself some time to adjust before you write off the Madone. Lighter makes a huge difference, but it's not necessarily automatic, especially when the geometry is a lot different.

One of my riding buddies is going through a similar transition. All summer she rode with us roadies on a 40 lb hybrid. Even though she struggled at times, we all kept telling her she didn't know how strong she was. So when she got a road bike, she was very discouraged that her pace didn't immediately improve. But she's sped up quite a bit on the new bike and continues to get faster as she gets used to it.

If you can average 18+ on hilly rides on a cross bike :eek::eek: you're SUPER strong. I'd say give it time, but also talk to your PT about issues specific to your hip.

I had no problems on hills going from a triple to a compact. But I don't think I had a 34 on the back!!
However, it did take me a while to learn the ins-and-outs of shifting for maximum benefit as I got to the hills. Since the gearing is different, your usual combinations won't work, and you have to re-learn where your own "sweet spot" is.
If you absolutely can't handle it or get accustomed to it on the lighter Madone, your best option is probably to focus on the cassette, rather than the crank. It's possible your rear derailleur cannot handle a 34 cassette. Rather then changing out the crank, it might be cheaper and bettter to change out the rear derailleur and put a bigger cassette on it.
Your LBS should be able to guide you.

My new bike has a 50/34 with 12-27 but my old bike had a compact triple with 12-25. The compact is definitely more difficult on hills but my new bike is much nicer and the fit is better so I tough it out ;)

I'm sure your pre-existing hip problems don't help :(

I would go with what feels best. I have to say, 34 in back is really big...I think I'm almost at my max with 27 on my cassette. I was lucky in that my transition from triple to compact contained most of the same gear ratios :)

Mountain bike ratios and road bike ratios are way different. I commute around town on my trusty Trek (not sure about the exact gearing) and it has much much much easier gearing than my road bike. The downside is that it is heavier, clunkier, and the tires are fatter so even though I can gain speed, I never go as fast as I can on a road bike on comparable surfaces :)

I think you can get some bigger rear cassettes with SRAM, though :) I remember a thread I was reading where someone has a really nice big gear on their cassette and the details are explained :)

I'm glad we all remember that thread!

I went from a triple and a standard double with a 11-25 in the back to a compact with a 11-25 (well, I still have a triple...) Truthfully, I hardly ever got into the granny gear on the triple and I still rarely do. My ability to spin improved greatly after getting the compact and maybe the geometry just works better for me - because I definitely climb hills better on my compact. But that bike also shifts much better in comparison than the triple. Periodically on the triple when shifting under load it decides to skip the middle chain ring or something else that really throws me off - I really have a hard time recovering from a mis-shift if I'm hill climbing.

I've found with the compact double,if I'm down shifting on the front chain ring, it usually works best to upshift a couple gears in the back simultaneously... that keeps my spin rate about the same... and then down shift on the back as needed.

For an entirely non-technical view of the situation there comes a point where you have to accept your physical limitations. I know all too well that this can be difficult.
Of course if there is another gear ratio that would work better for you, go for it. An average of 16 mph is admirable, IMO.

Thanks for all the input.. I really appreciate it. I needed an outside perspective. I know I haven't been doing this long, but I'm surrounded by a freak of nature (my husband who's been riding the same amount of time as me, 7 months or so, and averages over 20 mph!) and lots of racers and ex-racers. It's hard to readjust my expectations to what my body can do.

I think I'm going to give the 27 a little more time.. The weather is starting to change, and my joints are not too happy. This may not be the best time to decide how strong I am. I'm thinking I'll focus on building strength on the trainer in the off season and see where I am come spring. Let 'cross be my focus for the fall/winter.

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

bummer!
Why did you get a bike without a triple? I don't think you're going to be able to get stronger fast enough to enjoy hills on that new bike.

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Took the advice of some other folks that a compact would be fine... that I'd only lose 1 gear at the top and bottom. I obviously didn't research enough on that one. my bad. If I didn't have the griding hip pain to contend with, I think this would be a non-issue.

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Originally Posted by Zen

For an entirely non-technical view of the situation there comes a point where you have to accept your physical limitations. I know all too well that this can be difficult.

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I'm trying to avoid getting back into that mindset.. I'm 27 and have had the arthritis for 11 years now. I let the arthritis rule my life for too long. Up until 2 years ago I was pretty much sedentary and used a cane to get around about half of the time. Lots of heavy duty meds and lots of exercise later, I'm too hard headed at this point to let the new bike win :D I've worked too hard to come this far. Quite frankly, some days I'm still amazed at who I am today vs. 2 years ago.

May ask my rheumatologist for a referral to PT when I see him in a few weeks. Haven't done any PT for my hip even though it's been bothering me for several years. It's one of those things rheumatologists tend to forget about in treatment plans.:confused:

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Originally Posted by Zen

An average of 16 mph is admirable, IMO.

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X2 on this comment!!! I too, went from a triple to a compact...and on hills, I'm LUCKY to average about 13mph!!! :eek: So if you consider yourself to be slow...I must be pathetically slow! :o :p

lo - what size are your cranks? It is easier to spin with shorter cranks. I know shorter cranks are better for knee problems, but I don't know if they help for hip problems.

But that's also something that you could possibly change out to help.

lo123,

I just remembered that sram is making a 10 speed mountain bike cassette:
http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?ID=87314

It's expensive, fairly new, I have absolutely no idea idea whether you could mix & match it with shimano - at the very least you probably need to replace the rear derailleur... It's an 11-36 cassette, so it should give you similar gearing.

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Originally Posted by lo123

Took the advice of some other folks that a compact would be fine... that I'd only lose 1 gear at the top and bottom. I obviously didn't research enough on that one. my bad. If I didn't have the griding hip pain to contend with, I think this would be a non-issue.

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If you were just switching from a triple to a compact, I'd agree with this. But you also lost your mega-range mtb cassette when you switched, so you lost even more low gearing.

I think I'd consider one of two things:
a) Switching to a road triple or even a touring triple. This would mean confirming that your left shifter is double/triple compatible, or replacing it with one that is triple-compatible. You may also need a new front derailleur, but it's hard to know without seeing the bike.

b) Switching to 9-speed in the rear (I'm assuming that your Madone is 10-speed), including a new derailleur, an MTB cassette, rear shifter, and maybe a chain. My only experience with 9/10 compatiability was on DH's commuter, and the 9-speed shifters didn't play well with the spacing on a 10-speed cassette.

Catriona's suggestion of a SRAM XX cassette has possibilities too. Just keep in mind that a SRAM rear derailleur is not compatiable with a Shimano shifter. Something about the shift ratios being different- I'm drawing a blank here.

*wanders off to check out the part specs on the Madone*

16+ average on hills is impressive and so is the fact that you ride a bike with arthritis. I applaud you.

I moved from a triple to a 50/34 with 12-27 rear cassette several years ago. It was tough at first but I do fine with it. I ride with my husband and several other men---I'm the only woman---and I am always dropped on the hills and probably would be no matter what kind of gearing I have. As I got stronger, they did too. They just had to be "trained" to wait for me at the top before they took off again. I have just learned to live with it and continue searching for other women in my area that ride the same pace as me.

Don't let it demoralize you. The Madone is a beautiful ride but it doesn't sound like you are enjoying it much. That's too bad.

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Originally Posted by Catriona

lo - what size are your cranks? It is easier to spin with shorter cranks. I know shorter cranks are better for knee problems, but I don't know if they help for hip problems.

But that's also something that you could possibly change out to help.

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hmm.. 170 on the cranks. I hadn't thought about that. I'll talk to the guy who did my pro fit and see if that's something that might work for me.

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Originally Posted by BikeChick

Don't let it demoralize you. The Madone is a beautiful ride but it doesn't sound like you are enjoying it much. That's too bad.

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I'm trying... I've really enjoyed it on the recreational rides I've done on the Madone where I didn't feel like I was slowing everyone else down...
When someone circles back to pace me back to the main group, it just really feels like a loss when I was able to hang with them a few months ago.
I think I need an attitude adjustment.. or new riding buddies :p

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Originally Posted by Becky

a) Switching to a road triple or even a touring triple. This would mean confirming that your left shifter is double/triple compatible, or replacing it with one that is triple-compatible. You may also need a new front derailleur, but it's hard to know without seeing the bike.

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What's the difference between a road and touring triple?

From my calculations, the Ultegra triple I've looked at would be 52/39/30, which with the current 27 cassette, would give me essentially one more gear, but not quite to the 1.7 gain ratio of the Tricross setup.

Maybe I need to figure out what the comparable to that is on the Tricross and give it a go? I don't usually use full granny gear on the Tricross except for one hill that's part of my 'warmup', so maybe it would work.