Brooks Saddles

Ok... so I have a new question...
My Brooks is totally comfortable on my sitbones now... but when I accidentally shift down too low and end up spinning or brake too hard or something, I end up really smacking my soft tissue on the hard nose of the saddle, and 2-3 minutes of hugging the top tube with my knees while uttering unpleasant words is starting to wear on my riding partner.

Any suggestions? I have the nose tipped down just a little, and I'm wondering if I need to tip it back up after reading Triskeliongirl's post...

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Originally Posted by Kitsune06

Ok... so I have a new question...
My Brooks is totally comfortable on my sitbones now... but when I accidentally shift down too low and end up spinning or brake too hard or something, I end up really smacking my soft tissue on the hard nose of the saddle, and 2-3 minutes of hugging the top tube with my knees while uttering unpleasant words is starting to wear on my riding partner.

Any suggestions? I have the nose tipped down just a little, and I'm wondering if I need to tip it back up after reading Triskeliongirl's post...

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Hey girl, take the piercings off on the bike ride? or have your riding partner wear ear plugs while they ride with you? :D

my saddle is tipped a tiny bit up from level, it works for me.

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Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl

Well, I get home from the gym, no problems. Again, still pressure but not pain on the soft tissues hitting the nose (and no after ride pain). I took 2 pictures which I am going to try and post. In one see you can see her on the entire bike, and the other is a close up. The only 2 positions I tried was completely level (as in pix) by placing a carpenters level across the entire top of the saddle, and the other was placing the level on the nose. When I leveled it on the nose I was sliding off, so that wasn't good, but do you guys think I should try tilting her down just a tad for my next ride, or leaving her alone until she adjusts to my body? The other thiing I love about her is that I can slide around more easily, back when hunkered down in the drops, instead of meeting resistnance from the gel in the butterfly. I never sent pix before. I put them as attachments so I hope this worked. If not, tell me what to do!

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your bike and saddle look great together, but I honestly don't know what to tell you. Ride longer? see if you get used to it. Also, as you put miles on the saddle, you might try slight different adjustments and you might just dial something in that works?

m

That's a beautiful saddle. The black would have looked better on my bike than the honey, truly, but for some reason I love the honey.

I finally just made my saddle level and back as far as it will go, and rode a short (3 mile) ride. I noticed a little soreness in places I haven't noticed it before -- a different part of my thighs, a little in my knees, and the longer I rode, the more I felt like I was carrying too much weight on my hands.

It wasn't until my husband asked about it that I realized I hadn't felt anything about the saddle to comment on -- just other areas (which are probably adjusting to the new saddle height, angle, etc.).

However, I'm not sure about my hands. I may end up lowering the saddle again, since the guy at the LBS lowered both it and my handlebar. I raised the saddle but that might be putting more stress on my hands.

OR -- maybe I just need new gloves. Mine only have padding on the pad of the hands. I may need to get some that are padded all over the palms.

Anyway, I need to put a lot more miles on the bike with the saddle this way, but it's much better than it was before. Thanks for all the patient advice. I've been reading mine and others' and it's helping bunches!

I guess what I am asking is, can I expect the pressure to go away as my body makes an impression in the nose of the saddle (that is what breaking in is) or is it better to experiment with the saddle angle. I have a longer ride planned for tomorrow, so I think I'll go out with it like this, but bring my allen key just in case it starts to bother me too much. Does that make sense? I am surprised you ride with it tipped up. That is *very unusual* for a women.

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Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl

I guess what I am asking is, can I expect the pressure to go away as my body makes an impression in the nose of the saddle (that is what breaking in is) or is it better to experiment with the saddle angle. I have a longer ride planned for tomorrow, so I think I'll go out with it like this, but bring my allen key just in case it starts to bother me too much. Does that make sense? I am surprised you ride with it tipped up. That is *very unusual* for a women.

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Trisk

I guess it is unusual for a woman to ride tipped up a bit.. the guy at the shop said "If you can take it..this will take the pressure off your hands"
and i guess i could take it. :)
I sit way back on my sit bones and so far it has not been a problem.
To answer your question, i think that if micro adjustments don't help.. yes
as you imprint that saddle with your very own sit bones, i think it will make a difference with the pressure. Mind you, you ride more aggressively than i do (right?) but your saddle is different too. My guess is that you should just ride it for a week and THEN change it, if you still think you need to!

The nose of the Brooks is not going to change in shape too much- it's the sitbone area that will form to your sit bones.
Like Mimi, I ride with the nose tipped up a TINY bit from perfectly level. That lets me put more weight on my sitbones. Too much tip up on the nose though created too much girly bit mashing. ;) Every teeny adjustment makes a difference. Give every adjustment a day or so to feel the difference.

If you lower your saddle too much your legs will stay too bent while riding and you will have knee pain.

Glad to hear you like the Brooks!

I also have my saddle - a green Finesse - tipped up.

V.

http://tandemhearts.com/coppermine/a...2006/08-ns.jpg

I just looked carefully at my Brooks, and it's tipped up a tiny bit, too. I don't have a level, but eyeballing it looks tipped up.

Feels level when I ride.

I read this whole thread a while ago, and a similar Brooks thread on another site, and one thing that struck me is that some people find the Brooks to be completely comfortable right out of the box, and other people say it has a long break-in period requiring lots of conditioning and adjustment, and that the saddle isn't really comfortable until it has formed to your sit bones. And it seems like the first group are ultimately happier with their saddles.

From that, I am thinking that if the saddle doesn't work for me right away with a few adjustments, then it is not the saddle for me. I just put my Team Pro on my road bike last night and it was not love at first ride. It wasn't terrible, but I think it is too narrow for me; I am not feeling like I have a good platform for my sit bones so the saddle is pressing on my genitals, and I don't care about break-in periods, that's bad. I am going to give it a couple more trys with the saddle moved slightly forward, tipped up slightly, etc., but I am not going to ride around with numb genitals hoping that eventually the saddle will get better.

The Team Pro is only 160 mm wide! Is that the saddle Bill recommended when you told him your sit bone measurements?

My bones are wider than that saddle. (170-180mm) I'd be on soft tissue only.

I'm tempted by the B17S for my new bike because it's sexy, but it's only 177mm wide. At best I'd be balancing the points of my sit-bones on the metal frame under the leather, rather than on the suspended leather itself.

My B67 is 210mm. Bones are on suspended leather. It is good.

If the Team Pro is that uncomfortable, don't bother keeping it. It'll get softer, but it ain't getting wider!!!! Call Bill, tell him how the narrow Team Pro feels, and ask him to recommend another saddle. 1-888-731-3537

P.S. I have the extra-wide version of sit-bones.

I didn't buy it from Bill, I bought it from my neighbor for $40. I wanted a B17, and that is how he'd advertised it on Craigslist, but it is brand new so it was too good a deal to pass up. My sit bones are only 4.5 inches apart ... about 115 mm, I think? So wider saddles on a road bike make my butt hurt. That was why I thought maybe I just didn't have this one set right on the seat post, especially since I also had some knee pain on the first try.

I thought my husband might like the Team Pro if I didn't, but he thinks it would look stupid on his carbon fiber road bike, and he doesn't want to put it on his commuter because he's afraid it would get stolen. I will probably Craigslist it if it doesn't work out. Poor unloved Team Pro ... it is the most beautiful saddle I have ever seen.

Does it have copper rails?

So, I am doing really well with my Finesse. I started today with her level according to the carpenters level, but after ~10 miles the pressure on my soft tissues was bothering me so I decided to tip it down the slightest it could be moved on my seatpost. Instant relief. I could also instantly feel that my sitbones are now carrying my weight, wheras before it was a bit of both sitbone and soft tissue. I am not sliding forward either, like when I tried to tip it down a lot. By the end of the ride I wasn't even thinking about the saddle. I'm still not in the 'gliding on air can't feel a thing' place.

EXCELLENT TRISK!!

have fun, no more pain!

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Originally Posted by xeney

I read this whole thread a while ago, and a similar Brooks thread on another site, and one thing that struck me is that some people find the Brooks to be completely comfortable right out of the box, and other people say it has a long break-in period requiring lots of conditioning and adjustment, and that the saddle isn't really comfortable until it has formed to your sit bones. And it seems like the first group are ultimately happier with their saddles.

From that, I am thinking that if the saddle doesn't work for me right away with a few adjustments, then it is not the saddle for me.

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I can't say I agree with that assessment about the two types of Brooks users.
I had some sitbone soreness in the first few days, but that went away pretty quickly to where I was pretty comfortable within a few days of using the new saddle. In the 2 months since then, it just gets more comfortable as the saddle is forming to me. Thus, I don't fall strictly into either group, and my experince would not indicate at all that one can tell "right away" if the Brooks is right for you.

Well, I think people have different ideas of what is acceptable. You said in an earlier post that the saddle mashed your genitals a little but that after a few hours it didn't bother you. For me, that's not acceptable in any saddle and I consider that outside the idea of a "break in" period.

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Originally Posted by xeney

Well, I think people have different ideas of what is acceptable. You said in an earlier post that the saddle mashed your genitals a little but that after a few hours it didn't bother you. For me, that's not acceptable in any saddle and I consider that outside the idea of a "break in" period.

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It's not that the mashing didn't bother me after a while, it's that it DIDN'T feel like it was mashing me anymore after a while- big difference!
What I was trying to say was that the position I had the saddle tilted to initially felt like it was mashing me (a little) for an hour or two, but that feeling went away and I was then comfortable all the time, even on a 40 mile ride this week. Like you, I certainly wouldn't put up with feeling "mashed" all the time! :eek:
But if i had returned that saddle after a half hour of feeling squished, I would not be riding in total comfort today- I'd probably be frustratedly trying out saddle after saddle.

Hey xeney,

I hear that the Team Pro has thicker leather than the B17, so it takes a little longer for people to get comfortable on it.

If I were you, I'd try adjusting the position and giving it a little longer.

Good luck!

-- Melissa

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Originally Posted by xeney

Well, I think people have different ideas of what is acceptable. You said in an earlier post that the saddle mashed your genitals a little but that after a few hours it didn't bother you. For me, that's not acceptable in any saddle and I consider that outside the idea of a "break in" period.

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Xeney, I felt that way too on my first ride, and it certainly wasn't acceptable. But, once I tilted the saddle down just a tad, it went away. On the other hand, my butterfly was leaving me blistered and bruised, and that certainly was not acceptable. The shape conforms perfectly to my body.

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Originally Posted by xeney

Well, I think people have different ideas of what is acceptable. You said in an earlier post that the saddle mashed your genitals a little but that after a few hours it didn't bother you. For me, that's not acceptable in any saddle and I consider that outside the idea of a "break in" period.

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Xeney, I felt that way too on my first ride, and it certainly wasn't acceptable. But, once I tilted the saddle down just a tad, it went away. On the other hand, my butterfly was leaving me blistered and bruised, and that certainly was not acceptable. The shape conforms perfectly to my body.

Nah, no matter how I adjust it, my sit bones are sitting right on the rivets. It doesn't hurt but that is not going to be comfortable over the long haul. It's not a good fit for me. My husband is going to use it after all, I think, but he's going to buy a locking seat post bolt.

I have another leather saddle, which I think is a Wright (Brooks competitor, from the 70s?) that is almost perfect. It's about a centimeter wider than the Team Pro, and it's only problem is that it has a huge fat nose on it. (Much bigger than any Brooks I've seen.) The nose rubs my thighs, but the seat platform is perfect and it's the same width as a B17. That was what made me think a B17 would work for me, so I'm going to go with one of them once I can afford bike parts again. (And a Champion Flyer for my around-town road bike might be a higher priority.)

Pooks, I missed your question: it does have copper rails. Which is why I am so sad that it did not work for me.

FYI, what is great about the finesse is that it is wide in back but has a narrow nose.

Xeney,
keep in mind that the B17 "S" is a tad wider than the B17- it's made more for women, it's what I got, and I have wide hips. I f you have trouble with your sit bones being too wide for a saddle, you might want to try the B17S.

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Originally Posted by Veronica

I also have my saddle - a green Finesse - tipped up.

V.

http://tandemhearts.com/coppermine/a...2006/08-ns.jpg

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Ok, so Veronica....what's up with the towel? Did your bike just wash its hair or something? :cool:

No, I had just washed my hair and the towel was there to dry. Plus it hides my Brooks Leather bar tape and lugged stem, so no one gets envious. ;)

V.

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Originally Posted by Veronica

No, I had just washed my hair and the towel was there to dry. Plus it hides my Brooks Leather bar tape and lugged stem, so no one gets envious. ;)

V.

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Yeah well I see that lugged stem coyly peeking out from under that towel...it's a good thing I have a lugged stem too, or I'd be JEALOUS!!!

Add me to the list of satisfied Brooks saddle users.

The gel saddle that came with the used Trek 7100 I bought off Craig's list was too narrow, so I got a Brooks B.67S. I've ridden about 40 miles on it so far, and have had to raise the seat a couple of times, so I think it's breaking in. It was immediately more comfortable than what it replaced, and MUCH more comfortable than my 25-year-old Avocet Racing W-II (which is on my other bike), and has gotten more so. I've had to do some tinkering with the seat position -- I have it tipped up slightly, as otherwise I tended to slide forward, and I can't put it quite as far back as I think I'd like, because the springs impinge on the rear rack.

I do wish Brooks made an unspring saddle this wide! My sit bones are quite close to the rivets as is, and I'd really like to replace the W-II (which is almost as wide) on my road bike.

Rebeccah

yeap, gonna call bill and talk to him or someone at wallbike about getting a brooks saddle.

the more i've read about them and looked at all the pictures, iv'e decided to give one a try. if it doesn't work, it's returnable.

i did some more measuring this morning:

sit bone stuff:
outside edge-outside edge (of indentions)=6"=152mm
center-to-center (of indentions)=5"=127mm
indentions are 1.5" in width and are 2.75"+/- apart from the inside edges.

i'm really thinking that i need something that has the abrupt change from the saddle to the nose and the b17N might be the trick. my terry butterfly ti is 155mm total width, but i think it's still to gradual of a transition from the saddle to the nose.

if the saddle itself is the same width as my outside-outside measurements, does anyone think it would be supportive enough?

does anyone know how heavy the b17N is?

the swift looks nice too, but i just don't know about plunking 250.00 down for a saddle :eek:

team pro might be another choice, but again, 269.00 :eek:

i'll let you know which one i order; i'm gonna order today too, so that i can get it as soon as possible!

O.K. Ladies...

Are you ready for the Brooks Bar tape??? It's out there but too rich for my blood right now.


karen

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Originally Posted by khgulledge

if the saddle itself is the same width as my outside-outside measurements, does anyone think it would be supportive enough?

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Hmm...I would think that you don't want your sit bones to be sitting right on the outer edges of the saddle. That outer edge is where the support frame in under the leather. You want your sitbones on the leather within that frame, so it can form to your bone contours, like a stiff hammock. Have you considered the Brooks "S" models, made for ladies and slightly wider?
In any case, I would call Brooks and describe your measurements and see what they recommend for you- they KNOW.

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Originally Posted by massbikebabe

O.K. Ladies...

Are you ready for the Brooks Bar tape??? It's out there but too rich for my blood right now.


karen

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I checked it out on a bike installed. I love the look and the color and the feel. Except for one thing though- it does not lie as flat as cork tape or fabric tape. Because it is thicker, it forms a slightly raised ridge where its edges overlap, spiralling along the whole bar length. Some people might not mind that uneven ridged feel, others might want their bars real smooth.

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Originally Posted by massbikebabe

O.K. Ladies...

Are you ready for the Brooks Bar tape??? It's out there but too rich for my blood right now.


karen

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I have it and love it. It holds up well in the rain too. Mine is black. It doesn't look dirty the way my green cloth tape did.

V.

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Originally Posted by khgulledge

if the saddle itself is the same width as my outside-outside measurements, does anyone think it would be supportive enough?

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Nope. What LisaSH said. There is a metal support running along the rear curve to which the leather is bound. Sitting on that metal isn't going to be the best choice. A B17N is gonna be NARROW. A B17 or B17S might work better as far as getting the full benefit of a leather saddle. Tell Bill or Diane at Wallingford your measurements and talk to them to get a good saddle choice.

well, i talked with bill, but he pretty much said i wasted my time by taking my measurements and flat out suggested only the women's models. he said they didn't go by measurements, but by riding style and the kind of bike you had.

i wasn't very impressed with his help...maybe i called at the wrong time or something. i told him of my troubles on the longer rides, the soreness and chafing on the left side and he just wasn't as helpful as all ya'll made him out to be.....

anyway, i took the plunge and ordered the b17s. guess i'll find out in a couple of days whether i got the right one. and i know it will take a lot of riding to figure out whether it's the ONE or not, but i just mean width wise right now.

177mm (7") seems like it might be too wide, but what do i know.....

7" barely covers the span of my hand.

I have the B17S, and it doesn't seem that wide at all (at least compared to my bottom! :eek: ), so don't worry too much about that, I would say. The extra width of the "S" is really not very much.

well, today, i also exchanged my butterfly for a liberator x (gellisimo) at perf.

put that on the bike this evening, and all i can say is WOW! it is shorter than the butterfly and i immediately noticed that girly parts are not being mashed nor is there any pressure on them. i rode in the drops for a short while and no pain/pressure. my butt actually felt ok and i hardly noticed i was sitting on the saddle!

i should be getting the b17s in a couple of days and will try that one out as well. seems like you can return to perf just about anytime and the b17s is 6 months, so, i should be able to figure out what works in that time period.

all i can say right now is i'm in saddle nirvana :D

I'm not joining the cult, but here are some pics of an old Brooks from a 1954 Raleigh three-speed that's sitting in my basement to be refurbished someday. I can see a "B" and a "7" and a "L" on the skirt, so probably a B17L. You all can swoon over it if you want to. But let me tell you, her leather is cracked, there is a tear by the rear nameplate, and the nose rivets are about to pop through the leather. If you sit on it, you're practically sitting on the metal frame underneath. It's so short that when I sit on it, my pubic bone is right on top of the nose. I should try adjusting the nose tension and see if I can tighten it up without tearing the leather. Any thought on whether I should keep this with the refurbished bike or send it to the Brooks home in the sky?