Uh, oh really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Silver
blink blink?
comedy, just what I needed.
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Uh, oh really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Silver
blink blink?
comedy, just what I needed.
Nope. But then, I could just be racist against white people.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartianDestiny
You killed my forefathers and raped my foremothers.
Alrighty then. Take the male part out, and that puts me and you in the same class. You're really going to look me in the eye and say we don't have an advantage because we are white?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Silver
Please, just shut up about it, then.
Karen
ummm getting back to Semenya and some issues.
A co-worker who was a very good mid-distance runner in his youth said the following:
The last part bugs me... So if you are questionable its okay as long as you didn't break the record?? How can you justify such comment?Quote:
For a teenager to run a sub 2 minute 800m is really really good.
for some one to improve over 5 seconds in a span of a year is doable if you didn't have a proper coaching until a year ago. Once you get on a "real" training program where everything is minutely controlled, its not unconceivable to show that kind of improvement in a year. Something Semenya did. It also sounds like she didn't have proper training prior to last year when she burst onto the scene
Didn't watch the race but if she didn't completely blow apart the field, then it doesn't sound like a foul play. If she was ahead of the pack by two seconds but the pack was spread more than two seconds, then there really is no problem. Whereas if she was two seconds ahead and the pack was tight meaning not separated by more than a second or so then it may point to some sort of problem.
If she didn't break the world record at 18, it doesn't look like any foul play.
Anyway, it sounds like she is just one of those anomalies good or bad and she is going to be shattering world records in years to come. I wish her well. To her competitors, stop being a sour puss. Life is never fair.
Life is full of in-equity so get over it
I feel to know where you are going you must know where you've been. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Silver
I love the past, reading about it, studying it. In history I learn about righteous men and women with access to every advantage (yes, rich white dudes ;) :cool:) and at times when it was not easy, back in the day when one did not blog your way to rights but risked their lives. .... they did the right thing because it's as damaging to ones soul to be an oppressor as it is to be oppressed. At least that's what I was told growing up and that one should be able to live a life in which you are neither.
I love history, studying it, learning it because I learn about those who overcame tremendous obstacles that stopped others yet they were able to overcome.
They remind me when I face a wall I can't go around, under, over, break through that "Look what s/he did!!! You can achieve your goal"
It does not mean those who did not rise above discrimination are any less than those who do, or "Anyone can do _______, s/he did!" who knows what inner strength lets some rise above what another person can't break through. But I love learning about them.
That's just me. :rolleyes:
But back somehow to cycling. Where I roll, supposedly the most liberal of urban areas, the most diverse. For example we have more Chinese than just about anywhere other than uhm ... well... China and every other group too and yet I have friends who say they don't do group rides because they don't feel welcome and say they have been snubbed, they don't go to bike shops because they don't get treated well (that's not at MY favorite shop!!).
I look around me at events and in shops and well it's an upper middle class white sport. I think as a sport we need to own that, open up, and create a cycling culture that is diverse.
But that's just me.
Cyclists are pretty famous for snubbing (or at least appearing to snub).... *but* its highly unlikely to be about your race - oh no, its more likely to be over something *much more important* - like how up to date your equipment is, or whether or not you've removed your dork disk :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Trek420
Last year I had the opportunity to meet Chris Gardner ("The Pursuit of Happyness") and hear him speak to a group.
He told an interesting and entertaining story about a Texas Oilman client that he had, but had never met face to face. The man was clearly a "product of rural Texas" on topics of race.
One day, the Texas Oilman was in San Francisco and wanted to meet Chris...and Chris describes with great humor what happened as the "blood flowed from his 'lilly white' face" as they shook hands.
They sat down and went over his portfolio returns and Chris then said "Look, I've done well for you...it's not about Black, it's not about White, it's about Green". The Texas Oilman then picked up the phone and moved the other 2/3 of his investments to Chris' management...and they became friends after that.
Now, if Chris had taken the approach of "let's talk about how you have persecuted black people in the past", would a fight have emerged? Maybe, at best it would have been an uncomfortable moment with very little upside. Would the new business/personal relationship have flourished? Unlikely
Change occurred by locking arms and moving forward from that moment based on what they had in common...not their differences.
Edited to say: I'm sorry if you believe that "I" did that...but I'll not address that comment further.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catriona
A better way of seeing how some people or a group of people hold power that they don't even realize/forget unless the person places himself/herself in a totally different social situation:
All of us hold the power of the English language. We can participate in this forum, explain ourselves and try to explain about others...especially when some of us have real working/daily 2nd (or 3rd) language.
English is the de facto global language of power in: business internationally, to change law and policy of English language countries you have speak to law and policy changers..in English, noteriety for professional growth in publishing and presentation academically..English rules. English, English.. Not Chinese,.....even though they have a huge population. How many people are reading Chinese in North America and Europe. Come on...
And the Internet appears to be dominated with the huge range of information on many subjects of study..in English.
That is ALOT of power we carry and use daily. An invisible mantle of power..until we get into a foreign language country.
.....................
Is this related to cycling passion? Sure can be. Our message and enthusiasm is only reaching part of the world.
Agreed. On the issue of :your people murdered my people" :( This again is why I looooooove history. We learn so that we can be a witness so maybe, just maybe these things never happen again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Silver
I remember being singled out on the schoolyard and called a "dirty Jew! You killed Christ :mad:" I was 9. This happened way before my time. :rolleyes: I was also confused because I knew the dude was Jewish himself so why the anger at me? :rolleyes:
Anyway at a certain point we should move on; these things happened in the past, now here we are. What do we do from here? And "where oh where are the cyclists of color? Why so few?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5529555
I have a feeling that whatever you edited out was far more amusing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Silver
But if you believe that I believe that you literally killed my forefather and foremothers and that I'm racist against white people... I, of course, have been tracking you through the rifts that your activities are causing through the space time continuum, it took me a while to develop the time machine technology so that I could investigate the murder of all my foremothers, forefathers, and foresiblings... then it took a while to establish a fake online persona on team estrogen so that I could spy on you, but now that I have blown my cover, I have no choice but to challenge you to a duel. On unicycles.
tis so true. Things for which you WILL get an evil eye.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eden
pie plate is definitly ranks near the top. If you have to ask what that is OH MY :rolleyes::rolleyes: you're so helpless... It's the spoke protector metal disk that goes on between the rear wheel spokes and the casette.
the other offense are having front reflectors, reflectors on the spoke for side visibility. pedal without the cage or not using a clip-less pedal.
And if the person is a real snob then having a Big 'ol saddle bag. unless you're touring with panniers on front fork and on the rear.
It was nearly thirty years ago, a guy friend was miffed when a girl went up to Mr. Macho and told him that he could get another 1/10 MPH faster if he got rid of his rear reflector off his seat post. He was doing a TT on a road bike. He also was guilty of several other offenses as well but when you are at the bottom of crash 4s, that's excusable I guess.
I need to get back into shape and take my '80s road bike out with all that rust and see if I can drop some boys. It has friction shift on the down tube and shimano 600 groupo. :D:D
ofcourse I would need to be wearing wool, nothing modern mind you like lycra. Ohh with white socks and tennies. "yeah what's it to ya? My bike is older than you!! "
Anyone else feel like an episode of House is playing out in reality? What a mess for everyone involved.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_283441.html
what's really sad is that if she looked differently, physically, all these news folks would be doing profiles on how her physical traits were an awesome thing that enabled her to breeze through the wind, etc., etc., much like they do for Phelps and how his physical attributes are ideally suited to going fast in the water.
But, no....:(
It appears very likely that Semenya is probably intersexed in some way and/or has AIS. The question for the track and field organizers will be if said conditions present an advantage. If you have AIS, you generally don't benefit from T because your condition, Androgen (testosterone) Insensitivity Syndrome, makes you unresponsive to T. With Semenya's t-levels being around 7.5 as I remember, this is 3x higher than the 'normal' female range so her responsiveness to T is probably 'the' issue. From my recollection, the rulings on these matters have been mixed in the past.
For those that might be confused by the notion of intersexed, just bear in mind that it is hardly as uncommon as some might like to imagine. In fact, given the frequency of intersex conditions, 1 in roughly 3000, you are far more likely to BE intersexed than to be an olympic athletes.
Regarding the question of MTF transwomen in sport.
Basically a fully transitioned MTF will almost always have a significant a disadvantage in endurance/aerobic competition against natal women in most sports, including cycling, running, etc.
Why? Because her body no longer produces testosterone. In fact her T-levels will be lower than natal women's t-level's. That's due to the small amounts of T that are produced in a natal woman's ovaries. Very low testosterone also greatly lowers hemoglobin levels. Hemoglobin is an oxygen transporting metalloprotein. Less oxygen to muscles = reduced aerobic performance.
In addition, muscle tone decreases significantly and body fat increases. Meanwhile she still has a heavier male skeleton to support, so power to weight ratio predictably drops also.
T levels are, as stated by the IAAF the very CRUX of the matter in deciding whether an athlete can compete. Normal/common levels for men and women aren't even close - with the top 'normal' level for women being almost 400% LOWER than the bottom 'normal' level for men.
In agreement with all the above is the Olympic organizing committee's established decision to allow MTF athletes to compete in their chosen gender at the highest level.
I can comment on the trans angle with, shall we say many years of 'personal' experience. :)
BalaRoja,
Thanks for that information. Nicely explained.
I have strayed from the other posts....since it was getting a bit much for me.
From my nursing experience the intersex issue is a very big complicated one! Much less when you mix in all this.
K