Tour de France 2005

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Originally Posted by emily_in_nc

I think what George did today was just good race tactics. Sort of like on Survivor - outplay, outwit, outlast. He was really not going for the stage win until he was told that Lance would not need him to hang back to help. I think he deserved the win because of his years of service to Lance, never being selfish, never trying to win a stage for himself. After all these years, this day is finally his. I had tears in my eyes when he crossed the finish line.

George, you rock!

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Well said, Emily. Ditto from me. Regarding George taking a pull: 1) he originally wasn't there to pull anyone but to slow them down or be there to pull Lance which means he had to conserve energy for that potentiality, and 2) what team do you think has been pulling the peloton over hill and dale all these days? Whatever team has the yellow jersey is doing the hard work day after day at the front of the peloton setting the pace and the others all suck wheel. Robbie McEwen and his fellow sprinters are winning because they don't take a pull at the front. I think once again, Discovery showed smarts and strength as a team.

That said, I'm really impressed with Jan this year. He always seems like a bridesmaid, but he is really hanging tough and not giving up. Too bad his team isn't working harder for him. They don't seem to work together as well as Discovery.

Yes, Emily, I also could not have said it better myself. For me, this has been one exciting tour to watch and I am so clad we switched from Cablevision to Direct TV to get OLN (well could have added OLN from Cable for even more $$, no way!).

Anyway, I also had tears in my eyes when he finished and I just read the NY Times to find out he grew up in Farmingdale which is just about 10 minutes from me. I knew he was from Long Island but not from a neighboring town. How cool!

Yes, Discovery is a well rounded team. They have body and mind. So far all is working to their advantage.

~ JoAnn

SadieKate said "I'm really impressed with Jan this year. He always seems like a bridesmaid, but he is really hanging tough and not giving up. Too bad his team isn't working harder for him. They don't seem to work together as well as Discovery."

yeah, what's with that? As he finished yesterday, his teammate in front of him who seemed to be looking back every second was that to make sure his captain DID NOT PASS HIM or to make sure he had Jan on his wheel, what's with that?

And can someone tell me why can't he spin? He's so strong, if could just spin he'd ride the legs off Lance.

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Originally Posted by Trek420

As he finished yesterday, his teammate in front of him who seemed to be looking back every second was that to make sure his captain DID NOT PASS HIM or to make sure he had Jan on his wheel, what's with that?

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That was Oscar Sevilla. I think (I HOPE!) Oscar was actually looking back to be sure that Mickael Rasmussen didn't catch Jan. Michael finished 4 seconds behind Oscar and Jan. Oscar was actually there to help Jan at the finish, and the two of them finished with the same time.

The T-Mobile non-team action that I was surprised about was in stage 14. Vino made a good effort to get away from the pack (which included all the elites -- Armstrong, Basso, Rasmussen, Ullrich, Kloden...). And Ullrich and Kloden were the ones to chase him down! I guess it COULD have been that were trying to join him, but it sure looked like it was self-defense rather than team support!

"And can someone tell me why can't he spin?"

In the book by Dan Coyle "Lance Armstrongs War" a former dr. of Lances touched on this subject about Jan and said: "Probably Jan has a different kine of fiber in his muscles, fast fibers that are able to work at higher tension and with higher lactic acid, so perhaps Ullrich is doing exactly what he should be doing. He has a very good trainer"

In my personal opinion, although Jan looks like one heck of a strong guy, he also is carrying much more weight than most of the other cyclists. That takes so much more energy. I think if he shead some of the weight, not necessarily muscle and continued to ride through the winter time, I think he also would be a difficult to beat.

This book gives much insite on many other riders, not just Lance. I believe Caligirl recommended it in a past thread. I apolgize if I got the wrong person.

~ JoAnn

Ah yes, poor Jan
I would like for him to do more and it has been great the last two stages to watch Basso, Ulrich and Armstrong ride together
And if Jan could climb a gear or two lower, he would have something to help stay when the other two have pulled away... he has always crunched the big gears and always will I guess

It really annoys me when I hear commentators saying things like Ulrich being the better rider. If he was he would be winning stages, or beating Armstrong. How can he be the better rider when he can crunch big gears admirably and stay in the pack and TT... but Armstrong can RR, TT, climb and sprint at the finish?

Trek, you're right, I'm sure if Ulrich had a better team he would probably be..be doing better... did you know they apparently don't even sit at the same table together? What does that do for a untied front on the road? I do admire Jan very much because despite two crashes, he has soldiered on uncomplaining... just got on with the job... very admirable indeed.

As for George's win? Who deserved it better? He has self-sacrificed himself for the team for years... and was preparing to do the same on that stage... if Lance had arrived then George would have taken him to the line and not expected anything himself. I am very pleased George won - and wasn't his interview afterwards super?

ahhh - George Did contribute to the breakway. Didn't any of you see the wonderful shot of George off to the side urinating on his bike??.....once again I guess the cameras wanted to focus on the Discovery guy without caring about his dignity!

oh.....and thanks to that lovely camera shot - I now have all my questions answered about male bathroom habits during a road race! :eek:

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Originally Posted by CorsairMac

oh.....and thanks to that lovely camera shot - I now have all my questions answered about male bathroom habits during a road race! :eek:

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I'm embarrassed to say it, but I'd been wondering about that very question myself :rolleyes: . But still -- on the bike, George? You couldn't'a managed somewhere off to the side?

ROFL - actually we had a thread here where our wonderful friend MM in England answered all my questions regarding that very ahh - situation!! I figure if you can't ask the question here where Can you eh??!! But I can't find it or I would've posted the link!!

As for stopping - he was in the breakaway.....no time to stop man!!! :p

Remember grrls... boys gots "hoses". It's all in where they aim 'em.

As a former "dresser" of drag queens, I learned more than any woman should about when to hold 'em or when to fold 'em.

The only time in my life I've ever had "hose envy" (watchin' that censor) is when I'm out somewhere and need to winky.

spazz, a dog who needs to squat... no fire hydrants for me

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Originally Posted by spazzdog

spazz, a dog who needs to squat... no fire hydrants for me

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Oh, I dunno. I know a female triathelete who doesn't stop either :eek: Just stands and pees......I never did ask how often she buys new saddles. :D

[QUOTE]As a former "dresser" of drag queens, I learned more than any woman should about when to hold 'em or when to fold 'em.

Gollygee, Spazz, I can't wait to see the rest of your resume!

Nah! Most of it is boring corporate crap. That one was from my younger days.

I learned to pee "properly" pre-race (running) while attending a women's running camp in the rockies back in '96. It won't work with cycling shorts.

And now, back to the TdF...

Stg 16 looks interesting... scary climb about midway (HC) preceded by a Cat 1. Any bets grrls???

I'm liking Rasmussen to hang with Basso and Armstrong... Ullrich will get left behind again. Vinokourov will break and fall back, break and fall back, but not work for his team.

I expect a breakaway from a big bunch low on the GC... Wonder if Hincapie will cover it again.

spazz

OK, now that first place is pretty much locked up :D anyone care to make any guesses, educated or otherwise, for second and third?

I dare not comment further lest I once again unleash the power of the Kiss of Death ...

I think Basso has a pretty solid hold on 2nd place. The battle for 3rd should be interesting. I think it will come down to the ITT on Sat. Rasmussen is not known to be the best at the ITT but the chance for a spot on the podium could provide some extra motivation. Ullrich is a pretty strong time trialer and does not want to miss the podium for the 2nd year in a row. My money is on Ullrich. Of course, I'm biased... he's one of my favorite riders.

Hopefully, I haven't unleashed the Kiss of Death on Jan by saying that. I don't think I have jobob's powers but you never know...

Yeah, I think Rassmussen came in dead last in the first ITT. I think that Jan will probably take 3rd.

rasmussen is doing his dangdest to not lose any more time prior to that time trial.. and Jan keeps attacking him to put the hurt on... he may be able to attack him better in the flats, but Rasmussen wants to podium BAD!

I think that final ITT is gonna be veeeery exciting... as long as it's dry and safe, I think Rasmussen is gonna have the hardest ride of his life if he wants to keep 3rd... and I think Jan will be pushing equally as hard... should be FUN to see!!!

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Originally Posted by slinkedog

Yeah, I think Rassmussen came in dead last in the first ITT. I think that Jan will probably take 3rd.

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According to letour.fr, Rasmussen was 174th in the first ITT. He was 2 minutes, 6 seconds behind Jan. That was on a very flat 19km ITT. The final ITT is 55.5km, and has more climbing.

I don't think Rasmussen gave it his "all" on the first ITT. His goal at that point in the race was the polka dot jersey. I think he's probably as surprised as anybody that he's 3rd in the GC.

I think Jan will have his way with Mickael on stage 20. Jan is a very good time trialer. But if the GC standings don't change over the next few stages, that will be one exciting fight for the podium. I wonder if at the beginning of the Tour Jan would have any inclination that he would be racing against Mickael Rasmussen in stage 20...

Yes, Rasmussen was 2:06 behind Ullrich... but now Ullrich is 2:49 behind Rasmussen. The TT course is shorter and if Rasmussen really pulls a corker, he might still stay ahead of Ullrich.

All the other top ten are even further down... so Ras, if he's a very good boy, may have his day.

Looking at the GC after stage 17:

1 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 72.55.50
2 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC +2.46
3 Michael Rasmussen (Den) Rabobank +3.09
4 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team +5.58
5 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne +6.31
6 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner +7.35
7 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team +9.38
8 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto +9.49
9 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems +9.53
10 Christophe Moreau (Fra) Credit Agricole +12.07


I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that Rasmussen is going to give it his all but it won't be enough to even maintain top 5 - like AG said, he's definitely not a time trialer, he lost over 2 minutes to Ullrich over only 19k, and now we're dealing with over 55k in the final ITT. Maybe the adrenaline will carry Ras through, but I suspect that might go the wrong way for him and he could just as easily crack over that distance if he really tries to gun it.

In stage 1, Mancebo finished 1:23 behind Ullrich and 1:18 behind a certain American sporting a pale watery blue team kit. Mancebo will likely be gunning like mad to maintain his top 5 position, and I predict he will, barely.

Being veerrry careful not to wake the evil K of D genie, I predict the final outcome, numbering according to the placements from stage 17 above, to be:

1.
2.
4.
6.
5. [maybe 6. and 5. switched] Edit - nope, in for a penny, in for a pound. I'll stick with this order
3.

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Originally Posted by jobob

1 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 72.55.50
2 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC +2.46
3 Michael Rasmussen (Den) Rabobank +3.09

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In the first ITT (19k)
Lance beat Basso by 1:22
Lance beat Rasmussen by 3:12
Ivan beat Rasmussen by 1:50

In stage 20 (55K), They start 3 minutes apart.
Will Ivan pass Rasmussen?
I wonder if Lance has a chance close a 6 minute gap...

wait a minute, I missed the potty break, what happened :confused: :p

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Originally Posted by Adventure Girl

In the first ITT (19k)
Lance beat Basso by 1:22
Lance beat Rasmussen by 3:12
Ivan beat Rasmussen by 1:50

In stage 20 (55K), They start 3 minutes apart.
Will Ivan pass Rasmussen?

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I'd say, yes . Not to take anything away from Rasmussen, mind you, it's just that TT is such a specialized discipline - Basso (and all the other good/great time trialists) had to put a lot of training time into it. Not to mention odds are Rassumussen might not have a top-of-the-line uber TT bike - unless Colnago dug one up for him in the last few days.

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I wonder if Lance has a chance close a 6 minute gap...

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Since, presumably, it's the very last TT Lance will ever do as a pro, I daresay we might be in for something special. :)

Ok. I admit that I'm a geek. So in my geekly ways, I did a little projecting. I projected the ITT times of Stage 20 based on Stage 1 times (Stage 1 time divided by 19K, multiplied by 55.5K). I took these times and combined them with stage 19 times to project placement of the top 10 after stage 20.

Current position:

1. Lance
2. Basso
3. Rasmussen
4. Ullrich
5. Mancebo
6. Leipheimer
7. Evans
8. Vinokourov
9. Landis
10. Pereiro Sio

Position after projected time on ITT:

1. Lance
2. Basso (at 6' 57")
3. Ullrich (at 9' 16")
4. Leipheimer (at 11' 45")
5. Vinokourov (at 12' 45")
6. Rasmussen (at 13' 12")
7. Landis (at 13' 43")
8. Mancebo (at 14' 29")
9. Evans (at 14' 44")
10. Pereiro Sio (at 18' 47")

Useless information... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Adventure Girl

Useless information... :rolleyes:

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But think what it tells us about your personality! :D

Said from one geek to another, :p
SK

I think that's great, but there you go. :cool:

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Originally Posted by jobob

I think that's great, but there you go. :cool:

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What, AG's info or that we're geeks? :p

SK

Hey, you mean I can buy a bike or car without doing a 4 page spreadsheet analysis?

:D yes to both

Okay, can anyone have a worse race than poor Rasmussen did today? Oy vey, that kid had bad luck and rattled nerves. In the start gate, did you see how his hands were shaking when he adjusted his shoe strap? Well, experience is a good teacher. Hopefully he'll keep on keeping on and have better races in the future. I was very hopeful that he'd be on the podium tomorrow.


Looking forward to a nice parade tomorrow with no crashes!!

Poor guy. You could tell he wasn't all that accustomed to the TT bike, and that was a tough, tough course.

Still, considering how much time he spent not moving forward :eek: , he did very respectably indeed !

But, poor Rasmussen aside, that was one thrilling TT !!

Good for Jan to show what he's made of.

Needless to say I was squealing like a little schoolgirl and happy dancing all over the living room over Bobby's ride; Lee was, um, amused :rolleyes:

I'll forgive Vino for ultimately blasting Bobby out of the water, he's in contract negociations after all.

Looks like Basso tried a leeetle too hard in the beginning. Eh, there's next year, he'll only get better.

And Lance, whatcanI say. I was expecting something remarkable, as were we all I'm sure, and he delivered in spades.

Wow, this stage had it all. Lance rode like a man afire, and I was so glad to see him get his stage win to end his 7th Tour (essentially). I was happy to see Jan give it his all and get onto the podium. I ached for poor Michael Rasmussen, though. I'd been rooting for him all along (gotta love an underdog), and to see him crash twice, change bikes several times, and still keep going, wow, he has my respect. I would have been a blithering idiot after all that! :(

Emily

Poor Rasmussen. What a horrible day. I have to think that a TT bike was not the right one for him on such a technical course. And, once your concentration is blown it's all over.

Lance, of course, did his usual superb job, but I was just thrilled to see how well Jan, Bobby, Floyd, Levi and George did. Now, if Basso just hadn't started out quite so fast . . . way to go, jobob, you sent him a KOD, didn't you? :D

If Jan can keep his form next year, T-Mobile actually rides as a team rather than a collection of prima donnas, and Basso keeps working on his TT skills, we ought to have a large group of boys chasing that yellow jersey next year. It could get really exciting.

I'm all for Jan next year. He really deserves it. I was surprised that Basso blew up - I would have thought he had more experience & would be able to judge his body a little better.

Dittos on Rasmussen - poor baby!! And having to wear that silly polka dot jersey on top of it all - can they find something more ridiculous for King of the Mountain? I think not.

Lance - what do you say? Except I still feel sorry for the kids. They seemed quite bewildered when he was on the podium & the whole Sheryl Crow thing stinks. He should have given the flowers, en masse, to his daughters. I can't imagine how it would feel being stuck watching the race with Daddy's girlfriend who is a dim bulb to boot. (Can you tell I'm PMS'ing Big Time here?)

LOL Dogmama, don't hold back, tell us what you really think! :D

And nope, I re-fuse to take any credit for Basso's blowup, methinks that was his own doing. His time trialing is much better than last year so I'm not complaining, he still has a ways to go but he'll get there, and this time he hung on to 2nd place so I'm quite content.

I was a bit surprised about Levi, I would have thought he'd place higher in the TT. But it was a long three weeks.

Next year is going to be veeery interesting indeed.

LOL Dogmama - I mentioned to my hubby wondering how Kristen Armstrong(?) must have felt seeing her kiddies out for the day with Daddies New Woman.( meeeoowwww)
I notice Lance's mum was there too which was nice.

Actually, I thought it was quite cute to see the kids and it was nice to finally see a more relaxed side of Armstrong. Perhaps people might have warmed to him a bit more if he'd let us in a bit earlier in his career, rather than being so detached and aloof.

Today will be a momentus day as we see Lance ride for the last time in the Tour. I think it's a good thing he's finishing as for me, the Tour has gradually been getting more and more predictable and boring. As he won't be there next year is should be a scortcher and as a sporting event I think the Tour is in need of a breath of fresh air to capture people's imagination again and be a bit more unpredictable.

Finally, and I hate to admit this, but I caught myself being ever so slightly impressed by Armstrongs ride yesterday. To quote a friend of mine, he was riding that bike like he stole it! :D

Anyway, ramble over. Bye Lance and all the best for the future.:)

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Originally Posted by MightyMitre

LOL Dogmama - I mentioned to my hubby wondering how Kristen Armstrong(?) must have felt seeing her kiddies out for the day with Daddies New Woman.( meeeoowwww)
I notice Lance's mum was there too which was nice.

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Ever notice how much Lance's women look like his mother? Hey, Mr Freud....I also wondered how Kiki must have felt. I've seen so many kids displaced because of the current Squeeze that I wish he would have left Ms. Crow along side of the road. But, then she might be in the booth with Bob Roll and I couldn't stand that. I'd have to get my TDF news from Jobob - our totally objective correspondent.

I admit to having tears in my eyes as Lance completed his last ride. Incredible career. Do you think he'll try to break the one hour record?

I'm all misty eyed........all it took was Lance getting on the podium with his kids.

OK....is anyone else as mad as I am about the decision to award Vino the 5th place and knock Levi down to 6th??

I don't care that they decided to reinstate the time bonuses - I care that they decided to do it AFTER the race was over. After everyone had crossed the finish line. After everyone thought the GC was locked in and it didn't matter anymore except to make it home safe. I hope Levi and Gerolsteiner protest this and I hope the directors reverse their unfair and way-out-of-line decision.

I was so mad I was yelling at the TV and the poor dogs thought they had done something wrong. Too bad the directors couldn't hear me - I was even cussing in French!!

Corsair "I'm still mad can you tell?" Mac

Darn straight I'm ticked. That was bizzare, bogus, bull-oney beyond words. :eek:

Have to admit, as Vino raced for the finish I was joking with Lee that gee, do you think the TMobile management maybe sort of neglected to mention to Vino that he'd get no bonus time for the win? Kind of one last thumbed nose from TMobile to Vino. Oh well, wrong again :rolleyes:

There are times when the K of D manifests itself in strange and mysterious ways indeed.

Although I cannot believe that Gerolsteiner will take this lying down - they have a truly legitimate protest here. IMHO of course.