Here we go again... another scandal on TDF

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Originally Posted by maillotpois

(Wow, he has the same thyroid disease I have! I can assure you his thyroid meds are not performance enhancing... :rolleyes: )

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Not entirely true. Cytomel (T3) is a very popular drug among body builders and other athletes who need a super-low body fat percentage to perform at the top of their game (hmmmm.....sound like cyclists?). You can buy it on the web (along with other anabolic steroids) and there are hundreds of articles out there that explain dosing and phasing for weight loss. Down-side is that excess T3 can damage your heart and you can also lose muscle mass.

Levoxyl/Synthroid/et al (T4) is not popular because it takes a long time to dose into your system and the nuances of proper dosing are so tricky.

BTW, after spending years in hypo hell, I definitely think thyroid meds are performance enhancing (in a different sense). When I was super-hypo, I didn't recover, suffered severe muscle and joint pain, had a compromised immune system, the list goes on and on. All of these symptoms affected my ability to race my bike. By correcting this, my personal performance was definitely enhanced.

[QUOTE=Aggie_Ama]As my July Secret Sister knows, there is a popular bumper sticker here that says "Texas is Bigger than France". Hehe, I guess the anomosity is on both sides of the ocean.....:p

QUOTE]
Aggie - Where can I get myself one of those bumper stickers? I've got no beef with the French, but I love Texas bumper stickers!

Suzanne-

I found it online here: http://www.texasterritories.com/texastshirts.asp

I don't know how much the shipping is, another place I found wanted to ship it UPS. That was $7.03. :eek:

I bought it at a place called "The Texas Store" in our local mall. I have found some places will just do a phone order and send it by mail. Their number is (512) 250-0356. If the first place wants an arm and a leg for shipping (and you really want one) I could pick one up and mail it like a letter, it is a $2.00 sticker and I am the type who thinks the shipping shouldn't be more than the product!

Some sites claim it is a pro-war/pro-Bush sticker. I didn't realize that, I just thought it was darn funny. Lance is rumored to have the shirt. :p

Back to Floyd talk....

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Originally Posted by Eden

Bigger bummer for Vino who had a real chance at a podium place in this years TDF - but was excluded because too many of his teammates (now cleared - just several days after the tour is over) were implicated.

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Quote from another forum;
"Cleared" of anything illegal under Spanish law -- but blood doping
isn't illegal, and in Spain neither is other doping. That just means
they won't face criminal prosecution; they still face sanctions.

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Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl

While I support drug testing this has turned into a witchhunt. The 5 astana-wurth riders that knocked Vino's team out of the tour have now all been cleared. I really think the sport needs to develop more fair testing criteria, and more fair treatment of riders that are under 'suspician.' Its getting to the point where anyone can accuse any rider of doping and get the excluded from a competition.

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I agree with Triskeliongirl. At this point, it's a toss-up who's less trustworthy: the riders, or the organizations testing them. In this velonews.com article, the president of the UCI even says "... we know that the French laboratory [where the testing was done] has a close connection with [French sports daily] L'Équipe, and we did not want this news to come through the press, because we are sure they would have leaked it." That, to me, puts the integrity of the lab into serious question. Why on earth would WADA and the UCI continue to use this lab? Reading some of the many articles about Lance's issues over doping and Operation Puerto, it's crossed my mind more than once to wonder if someone out there is planting or somehow fabricating evidence of doping against riders. The magnitude of it and how it's all presented is getting to be borderline preposterous.

I'm still not sure I believe there was any wrongdoing by Ulrich, Basso or any of the other riders involved in Operation Puerto. First, during the second week of the Tour, Ulrich's lawyers still had not been given any documentation of what had been discovered, yet these "discoveries" were all over the news. Second, we now find out that the five riders from Astana-Wurth have been cleared. While I agree that any rider under suspicion should have been excluded from the Tour, I do not believe they should be considered cheaters and dopers until they have been proved such.

In Floyd's case, I'm of two minds. My more emotional side is in total denial. My rational side, though, says to just wait and see. I truly hope that the powers-that-be at Phonak are listening to their rational sides.

well they took down the floydlandis.com website!!! Talk about supporting your own! That's terrible.

Actually, it looks like it crashed. When I tried to get to it earlier this morning and got a time out, I assumed that tons of people were probably trying to get there and post comments. The message that comes up now when you go to the site seems to verify that.

The message last night was "this website is down (or closed, I can't remember) until further notice" It wasn't a server message or a network timeout.

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Originally Posted by Kalidurga

At this point, it's a toss-up who's less trustworthy: the riders, or the organizations testing them. .... Reading some of the many articles about Lance's issues over doping and Operation Puerto, it's crossed my mind more than once to wonder if someone out there is planting or somehow fabricating evidence of doping against riders. The magnitude of it and how it's all presented is getting to be borderline preposterous.

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I agree to a point here - though I don't think that its a thought out conspiracy. Unfortunately some of the techinicians who do the testing seem to be of the mind that all athletes cheat. One rider mentioned that during one of the times they had to contribute a sample the technican remarked something like "we'll get you all in the end". Some of the testing methods that are used (the ones used for EPO and blood transfusions come to mind) have some subjective componants to them. When you combine a person who is looking for a positive with a test that requires some discrimination on the part of the techinician I think that you definitely get a higher possibility of a result that is unclear being read as positive. People will see what they want to see. I don't know if this has any bearing on Floyd's case, though it does seem that there may be many explanations that do not point to willful taking of steriods on his part. Let's just hope that all avenues are explored before he is condemned.

It seems like if WADA and the UCI are going to come down so hard on riders they really ought to have reliable proof of wrongdoing *before* they sanction anyone. Its a real shame that Vinokurov did not get to ride in the TDF, and it will be even more of a shame if Basso and Ullrich are ultimately cleared too. The evidence that has been presented to the public is thin at best and they are so bad at keeping other things quiet that it seems implausible that if they had hard proof - say a bag of Ullrichs blood or something - they would be able to keep it out of the press. Look at how they handle test results. They cannnot even keep A test results quiet. Even if nothing comes of the B test for Floyd his reputation has take a hit and its unfair.

I can understand the sports orgainization wanting to keep riders safe by banning substances that can endanger their health. As far as the argument that keeping sports drug free levels the playing field I don't buy it. The playing field is never level - some people just have more natural gifts than others, and there are plenty of legal ways of enhancing ones performance through training and equipment and things like wind tunnel testing that everyone may not be able to afford.

I guess in the end I'm not sure exactly what should be done - cycling takes a big hit because they pay attention to cheats and test more than any other sport. I'm sure that other sports have just as big, if not a bigger incidence of players taking performance enhancers, but they pretty much turn a blind eye to it. (Operation Puerto turned up lots of other people from other sports too, but we aren't hearing anything about a bunch of soccer players being dismissed are we)

This morning I was watching TV with my breakfast. The show I was watching, I think The Today Show, had an interview with Greg LeMond. I must say, it was really depressing. He was not optimistic at all. He basically said the likelyhood of a false positive is extremely rare and it doesn't look good. He said he wished him the best, but he didn't think the next test would come back clean. He also said he hoped Landis would just come clean when it came back positive and admit to the doping instead of still claiming he didn't use. It was sad. I definitely expected him to be much more optimistic. If the only thing I heard was his interview, I would basically think there is no chance that Landis wasn't doping.

It was sad. He said he knew the family, knew landis and thought he was a great guy, but he was not positive at all about the situation.

Well, Greg Lemond is no more an expert on medical tests than anyone else!

The thing with Floyd is he HAS been taking meds.. and where he should come out clean is when the Dr's prove that this irregularity is something that happens when you are taking these medications.

And Mercury is retrograde!

I have heard many interviews, bios on Greg Lemond. I think he had a hugh amount of talent and did so much for American cycling, but I think he's just bitter. All he can talk about is how if he hadn't been shot that he could have won 6 or 7 or MORE TdFs. He wants Lance so badly to be found guilty of doping so he can be the the Alpha Male Cyclist. It's almost like he wants every winner to be found guilty of doping so he can put himself on a pedestal - to be the only pure champion. I'm getting sick of him.

As far as the labs go...seems to me they're determined to attack every rider until they get a French champion...they seem desperate to have one of their own win the Tour.

I hope Floyd is cleared, but only if he truly is clean. But even then his win will always be tainted. Seems to me a good ol' fashioned witch-hunt is goin' on.

PS: Any real athlete knows you can have a terrible day one day and be at your best the next.

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Originally Posted by velogirl

Not entirely true. Cytomel (T3) is a very popular drug among body builders and other athletes who need a super-low body fat percentage to perform at the top of their game (hmmmm.....sound like cyclists?). You can buy it on the web (along with other anabolic steroids) and there are hundreds of articles out there that explain dosing and phasing for weight loss. Down-side is that excess T3 can damage your heart and you can also lose muscle mass.

Levoxyl/Synthroid/et al (T4) is not popular because it takes a long time to dose into your system and the nuances of proper dosing are so tricky.

BTW, after spending years in hypo hell, I definitely think thyroid meds are performance enhancing (in a different sense). When I was super-hypo, I didn't recover, suffered severe muscle and joint pain, had a compromised immune system, the list goes on and on. All of these symptoms affected my ability to race my bike. By correcting this, my personal performance was definitely enhanced.

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He's probably on T4, I would imagine.

It was performance enhancing for me in that I stopped being exhausted all the time. But I don't necessarily think it made me a better cyclist. It's more like fixing something that's broken than enhancing performance, I guess.

Landis has not only been fired, but if you read the news today, due to the the past doping situations with Tyler Hamilton and 3 other riders, plus the recent especulations of Botero and another Phonak rider who were in the group of riders frequently visiting the Spaniard doctor, they have decided not to support cycling anymore, it is too embarrasing for them. Manzano the rider who spoke his mind about doping said and Merckz also said it sometime ago, that if you wanted just to finish the Tour you could go with no dope but those wanting to be in the top 15 will only make it with it. We have to let our kids know this, because if they are wanting to go professional some day they have to be aware of the consequences of doping to their health. These guys when they step into their 40's and 50's don't even have a sex life anymore !

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Originally Posted by tomgrrrl

Restrec, I beg to differ, but he hasn't been "fired" from Phonak, his team. Cycling has the most stringent rules in the sports world and it is STANDARD that athletes under investigation are "suspended" until the situation is resolved. It's how all the teams are required to operate....also, I don't think the situation is as black and white as you seem to...but, this being a free world, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Somehow this whole thing resembles a certain event back in Salem hundreds of years ago.....

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Welcome to the forum, restrec. How about introducing yourself on the thread "Getting to Know You"? We're always snoopy about new people.