X-ray backscatter security scanners

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Originally Posted by VeloVT

Wow, seems like I'm in the minority. I'd gladly volunteer for a full-body scan to save the inconvenience of taking off my shoes. The new enhanced pat-downs are unappealing, but I really couldn't care less about the scans. While I defer to those who have medical concerns about them, I don't understand the extreme anger they seem to have excited amongst everyone else. Yes, the operator will see you naked -- you and the 10,000 other people that go through the line that day. Few of us are really that memorable.

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Dang you shoe bomber - though they were already making you remove shoes everywhere I went well before that. It used to be some shoes on a TSA judgment call, but then became all shoes as time went on (same time as the 3oz rule, I guess).

Someone could make a MINT off of TSA-approved shoes (like the TSA-approved laptop sleeves). Every time I try to go through in my Five Fingers I ask them what I could hide in 2mm of rubber that they wouldn't catch in the scan (either kind), and they give me the "them's the rules!" face. I'm sure the problem is "where do you draw the line?" and that in the end it's faster to push people through with one rule than to actually think "you could hide stuff we couldn't pick up on the scan in those shoes." I don't really mind the backscatter machines but I prioritise traveling expediently over being in a giant crowd of people with ruffled feathers. Not having to take off my shoes is even more expedient, even if they like to look at my hobbit shoes in the baggage scanner.

I was able to wear my five fingers through airport security in Amsterdam, Rome, and customs arrival in Seattle (where you transfer back to the airport for domestic flights). Apparently my shod feet are safe internationally, but not in the states. ;)

I am concerned about the health issues, it makes sense that there would be a class of people who should avoid exposure. We accept a certain amount of risk in everything we do, the key is to be informed.

I've often thought that someone ought to make very minimal disposable paper slip-ons for airport wear -- sort of like I've read you can buy disposable paper travel underwear in Japan. Or like surgical scrubs... Sturdy enough to walk around in throughout a few layovers, but ultimately disposable/recyclable... I'd use them.

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Originally Posted by VeloVT

I've often thought that someone ought to make very minimal disposable paper slip-ons for airport wear -- sort of like I've read you can buy disposable paper travel underwear in Japan. Or like surgical scrubs... Sturdy enough to walk around in throughout a few layovers, but ultimately disposable/recyclable... I'd use them.

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I've seen the scrubs-style ones in a few random airports - like the ones that carpet cleaners or people working in your house wear to not track stuff on your carpet. I bet a cleaning supply place would have them.

True. I don't really care what they see with those machines (I do think they are taking away my right to privacy, but someone may as well enjoy seeing me naked). But I don't trust the safety of them. Sure, yeah, the FDA has said they are safe. But how many drugs has the FDA pulled this year alone that they THOUGHT were safe and have changed their minds on? Plus I've read too many scary stories about radiation machines for cancer accidentally putting out way more than necessary - and those are run by medical personnel. I had to take several hours of radiation-safety training just to test properties for lead-based paint, and I doubt anyone from TSA has had equivalent training.

Anyway, I will continue flying because I have to, but my teenage rebellious streak has come out of hibernation from all of this :) I may try to fly in a bikini just to see what happens.

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Originally Posted by pumpkinpony

That brings some nasty thoughts to mind. Would they make you take it out and show it to them, right there in public? :confused:

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What is alleged is that woman's tampons was "ripped" out of her body by a rude TSA agent. Also alleged is that another woman had her vagina penetrated by the finger of a TSA agent. And man who had a bag hooked up to his bladder was ripped off and the urine spilled onto his shirt...

Also alleged is that the TSA agents DO NOT replace the gloves after each enahanced pat down. If you don't care maybe you don't care if you get some bizzaro infection. care for Hep C.?

No thanks.

If TSA was serious about stopping sabotage, hire psychologists who are trained to pick out the nervous traveller or pick out those who are hiding something. EL AL questioning takes less than a minute. No search, no rude questions. Also use bomb sniffing dogs. Dogs can distinguish between fertilizer nitrates versus explosive type nitrates. Nitrogen sniffing machines fail miserably with garden variety fertilizer. The back scatter x-ray goes everywhere so even if you are NOT in the machine, you ARE being exposed. So going for a humiliating enhanced pat-down does you no good.

incompetence and stupidity at its worst! If you find my doodling too offensive, I will remove it. But this is my sentiment. It may not stay up too long.

I'd far rather see more use of sniffer dogs. Less imaging technology. Pat-downs only if the metal detectors and the dogs alert on a passenger.

Dogs stick their noses here and there all the time, trained sniffers do the job without actually touching anything.

Sniffer dogs don't have to look scary, either. I've seen very cute floppy beagles working as sniffers at the airport.

would really like floppy cute beagles
that would work well for me

i am wondering how many people will decide they can't or won't fly after this and how many people would have to decide not to fly for it to have a big enough financial impact on airlines to affect things. i suspect to many people need to fly for work for that to happen. i have friends who need to fly all the time for work who are survivors of all sorts of stuff have all sorts of trauma and i have no idea how they are managing to deal with this. i'm worried about them. for them deciding not to fly would mean getting a new job possibly a career change.

I have stayed away from this thread, but now that VeloVT said what I think, I will say that none of this is a big deal to me. Yes, I defer to those with medical issues (and this should have been thought of by the gov.) and yes, we need to keep working on better ways to do security. But, I could care less what "they" see of my body, and if for some reason I had to go through a pat down, I'd deal.
I keep thinking what will happen the first time there is a terrorist incident if screening is relaxed. I love to travel and this certainly won't stop me. We all have the freedom to choose to fly or not.
You guys know I am a "blue" person in the bluest of blue states. Maybe I have no modesty or maybe I just don't see this as a big deal. Or maybe having someone who works in intelligence for the military gives me a different perspective.

I have very little modesty, but I'm not going to dis those who do. Sexual assault IS a continuum, as they used to say in the '70s, and the fact that people have endured the horrific extreme end of that continuum doesn't mean that the other end is "nothing."

The point is being forced to disrobe beyond one's personal point of comfort. Everyone has such a point. I was beyond that point the time a male GYN stuck a speculum in me and walked out of the room to get something, leaving the door open and my cervix on display to whoever might walk past (which could have included other patients, drug reps, etc., not just medical personnel). That was really awful for me. Other people may be beyond that point just from being seen in the scanner. Modesty is like pain, everyone's threshold is different, but the experience is still real.

There will be terrorist incidents WITH these screening protocols. Then what? Body cavity searches? CT scans?

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

I was beyond that point the time a male GYN stuck a speculum in me and walked out of the room to get something, leaving the door open and my cervix on display to whoever might walk past

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What an absolute idiot :mad:. Just having my friendly and motherly female GYN do the speculum thing in the privacy of a small room has me mortified.

I wouldn't care much one way or the other about the scan myself, but I can fully appreciate that some people find it a very uncomfortable experience. It's not just a question of pulling yourself together and being sensible, or a question of what the scanner thinks or feels.

well, if you can't laugh...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HXEE...layer_embedded

with all of the anger over this issue, I found this to be a nice laugh break.

FYI, it isn't just the USA.. People in Germany demonstrated at an airport by stripping en mass.
There's another European group afoot that is planning for men to wear kilts and no underwear.

Somewhere high in the mountain top in a cave or maybe lurking on TE Osama B.L. is having a laugh. "I sent the shoe bomber and now they're taking off their shoes, the underwear bomber and now they're stripping and wearing kilts .... hmmmm, Dolly Parton wig bomber for a full hair search?"

Ride your bike or take the train? :rolleyes:

I am not what one would call overly modest, but as a violent rape survivor (twice) I am very sensitive about who touches me - and when you hear some of the stories about quite inappropriate touching - whether the stories are true or not - it causes me concern and I would stress out before the trip far more than would be good for me. I have put all of that behind me but it does leave scars and I had to deal with full-blown PTSD because of it. I have not had cancer, but my mother has.

Therefore, as I said, I won't be flying at all any longer unless there it is for something SO attractive that it would out-weigh the stress of what possible searches might occur. Intellectually I understand the process, but choose not to submit myself to it without a VERY good reason.

Pity, as I actually enjoy flying, but you weigh the options and do what is best.

TsPoet - thanks for the link - that was a hoot!

I'm not sure how I feel about all of this so I haven't weighed in yet on this thread. But I did want to offer a virtual hug to those of you who are rape or incest survivors. My heart truly goes out to you.