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Any molecular biologists out there? I was just thinking about the flow cytometry test and with the way it is done I was wondering if a high white count or the presence of antibiotics could yield a false positive. I have heard that Vinokurov's knee is infected.
Some of us (well, one for sure) were doing other stuff today, I only had one chance to use a computer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalidurga
It is unimaginable how they can do this day after day. They did it in 1903 without doping, if a rider has any moral standards and a true love of the sport for sports sake they wouldn't do it. I just don't get it, they're not exactly making pro football salaries.
I am absolutely and irrevocably disgusted...
Yeah, I know doping is far and wide. What gets me most is the arrogance and deceit. To sign an agreement to cycle clean knowing you're not, knowing that if you place anywhere near the top you'll be tested and randomly if you're in "the field"... I'm really pissed.
I'm thinking of following a new sport. What're the chances that shuffleboarders or croquet players dope?
It will be really interesting to hear the 4 muskateers take on this come 3:30 am (6:30 ET)... I'm imagining Phil Liggett will be be spewing all sorts of UK invective (like he doesn't personally know who's doping).
spazz
I posted something awhile back (and it ticked someone off) that said "I blame the French"Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyAnika
I don't entirely blame the French on this one.
Well, I had a whole day to let the news sink in. I'm really disappointed with the scandal.
Who knows why Vinokurov did what he did. I can't second guess. Maybe when he signed the agreement about doping, his heart was in the right place. Maybe when he was shattered the other day, he panicked and doped so that he wont jepardize next year... Sad. I do feel sad for Vinokurov for his desperation to stay in the game by doping.
Yup, the temptation is just too great for some of them. Honesty and moral value is severely lacking these days...:( :( :(
Smilingcat
Gutted? Yes
Disappointed? Yes
But wait... what happened to innnocent til proven guilty
He gets a second chance in case the lab f'ed up
He's requested the second test... shouldn't the condemnations wait until that is announced positive?
(And in the meantime all wish fervently that its all just a BIG mistake)
Oh, and can anyone answer Eden's question about the possibility of an infected knee affecting his blood chemistry?
I initially thought the Astana news was a "spoiler" too, when my DH emailed me the news about Vino yesterday. Then I remembered it was a tour rest day, so there was nothing to spoil....except the tour for me, since I am/was a huge Vino fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by zencentury
:(
Emily
His positive test came after Saturday's time trial, before he blew up on Sunday....not after his win in the Pyrenees. So, if he did it, he did it before he had his really bad day.Quote:
Originally Posted by smilingcat
Emily
Alas, they did dope even at the beginning of the 20th century - alcohol and ether to dull the pain were supposedly quite popular (as were other tactics like leaving broken glass on the road to burst opponents' tyres).Quote:
Originally Posted by zencentury
It still makes me very sad - I thought that this was going to be a clean Tour.
From VeloNews's live feed from today's stage:
"News reports today suggest that the tests following Vinokourov's win on Monday also show signs of homologous blood doping. Neither positive has been confirmed by their respective B samples, but that has to be considered to be a bad sign."
"bad doping result?!?!?! Today's l'Equipe is reporting that an as-of-yet-unnamed rider has tested positive for testosterone, following last Thursday's stage to Montpellier. We have no information on who that might be, so we will not speculate. There were eight riders tested that day, in case you're wondering.
Robert Hunter (stage winner)
Michael Rasmussen (yellow jersey)
Maxim Iglinskiy
Erik Zabel
Lilian Jegou
Cristian Morini
Kim Kirchen
Patxi Vila...
The UCI
will be making an announcement later today regarding the reported testosterone positive from the 11th stage last week."
I am not sure what to make of the Vino incident. I am very disappointed but believe his results shouldn't have been leaked but that is how the doping tests go.
This is a pretty funny quote from him though (from Cyclingnews.com):
Vinokourov did manage a joke about his situation. "I heard that I made a transfusion with my father's blood," Vinokourov said. "That's absurd, I can tell you that with his blood, I would have tested positive for vodka
I saw that quote at cyclingnews, too. It's frustrating in that he's denying it, but also saying "...I don't want to waste time in proving my innocence." Obviously, nothing is definitive until the B sample comes back (and possibly not even then), but this is beginning to sound like Ullrich's situation (I've never doped, but no, I won't provide anything that would help to prove my innocence). Time to take a deep breath, then sit back and just wait for the B sample and Vino's response, if any, to that.
I don't have cable or any of that and so when I visited my sister, who does have cable, I got to watch Vino do amazingly well on the time trial,especially after the hard times he has had for this tour. I thought it was great and then I read this morning about the positive test and was disheartened. Granted, we have a second sample to wait for, but even still, these guys should know better.It hurts me to see such great talent be based on something false.
But, with all of what's going on, I still love the sport and probably always will. I love watching it, reading it, and doing it. Maybe the sport needs to hit the lows to get the ones who are true to it and to change and to find those who have the talent to ride without needing to cheat, maybe not. I don't have the answers and I can't solve the problem, but I know I can try to help. I know that I will support those who promote a good, clean sport and work hard for the win instead of cheating.
Yeah - I have a history of the tour - It's NEVER been a "clean" tour. Drugs and other methods of cheating have been there since the beginning. The original organizer threatened to cancel it forever many times over the problems. Amphetemines were the drug of choice many years ago. Even the great Eddy Merkx had a suspension over amphetamine use! And think about what would happen today if anyone won all three jerseys (as Eddy did) - no one would believe it was a clean win, no matter how much testing proved it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bron