got a private message

Little anecdote:

Around here there was a rather tragic situation that emphasized who is a cyclist? A woman downtown was pushed under a bus and killed. The first reports that came out were that it was a cyclist riding on the side walk that caused the woman to fall. So what did everyone immediately think? It must have been one of those crazy messengers - see we told you cyclists were dangerous etc. Well when the whole story was reported it came out that the man and woman were having an arguement when he shoved her and she fell under the bus. The man then grabbed a bike from someone else and rode off to flee the scene. The media continued to report it as a cyclist killing a pedestrian. Was he a cyclist or a man with a bike? Could he have been both at different times?

Sometimes the different groups of cyclists around here tiff a bit over who is more justified to be on the road - whether or not we should have a helmet law (which was recently enacted) and who bike laws have the most effect on. In the end we just need to realize that cyclists are a varied community. We all have varied and valid reasons for riding a bike and no we aren't all going to automatically be friends or agree, but at least we can respect those who choose our mode of transportation. Who knows maybe next year that person who was afraid to venture off of the sidewalk will buy a new road bike and get the confidence to go out on the road. Maybe when I'm 98 1/2 and riding a tricycle I'll want to stay on the sidewalk and not ride faster than a walk..

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Originally Posted by Eden

Little anecdote:

Around here there was a rather tragic situation that emphasized who is a cyclist? A woman downtown was pushed under a bus and killed. The first reports that came out were that it was a cyclist riding on the side walk that caused the woman to fall. So what did everyone immediately think? It must have been one of those crazy messengers - see we told you cyclists were dangerous etc. Well when the whole story was reported it came out that the man and woman were having an arguement when he shoved her and she fell under the bus. The man then grabbed a bike from someone else and rode off to flee the scene. The media continued to report it as a cyclist killing a pedestrian. Was he a cyclist or a man with a bike? Could he have been both at different times?
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Good grief, Eden, i followed that story and never heard these details!!

Roguedog,
Those are my thoughts exactly! We are pretty darn lucky to be able to discuss the definition of a "cyclist" and anything it entails and be able to do what we love to do, ride, as a hobbie and/or form of transportation, health, etc. I think someone already mentioned it, bicycle mag had an article, Invisible Riders, which is pretty good.
As for the PM, I take communicating through the net simarly to communicating to someone in person, it's just not cool to be insulting and offensive, in order to defend your argument. If someone has a problem with what's been said, politely confront and discuss the issue. No need to create more hate and anger; this world doesn't need anymore!
Remember, we're on this forum b/c we all relate in one particular subject: cycling, riding, bicycling, or whatever you wanna call it! :D

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Originally Posted by Lisa S.H.

I don't know, I simply found it mildly snobbish (I can be mildly snobbish about lots of things too, including biking). Several people have already expressed that they did not find anything offensive at all in the post. Clearly the post is viewed differently by different people. That's not unusual. It's ok to enter into discussion that disagrees with the poster's opinion. That's what the forum is about- exchanging various ideas and opinions. There's probably nothing we would all agree on.
What makes this case different is that apparently someone sent a nasty private message in response to the post. Just how nasty it was we will never know, but if it was indeed nasty and rude well then that was inappropriate and uncalled for. It's healthy to disagree and argue one's point, but I think it's NOT ok to be toxically nasty and/or attack people personally. In my opinion, using the cover of a PM in order to get away with saying nasty things to another member without it being openly seen is abusing the forum.

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I would agree - basically, being toxically nasty (on the forum or in PM) is uncalled for. (And I wouldn't call saying 'don't confuse Sue with a cyclist' *toxically* nasty - it was more the idea that anybody who ever hops on a sidewalk for their own safety can't also hammer that I found beyond "expressing an opinion" and crossing to "putting down the other person." )

I'd like to point something out about the media referring to people as 'cyclists' that perhaps they shouldn't:

One of my other hobbies is rock climbing. (I hesitate to say I'm a climber. I don't think of myself as one). There are always news stories about people at (usually) local crags that fall to their deaths.

The news stories refer to them as climbers.

Many times, these 'climbers' are actually people who are scrambling up on the rock and have no business being there. They are kids fooling around without realizing the danger, hikers who think that surely their feet won't slip. They are not climbers.

Or are they? The media calls them that, and so climbing may get more bad press... local areas may begin to have access issues.

I'm just saying that calling something or someone by a name does not mean that they necessarily are one. Whats that famous saying about the rose?? It happens in lots of sports.

K.

I reserve the right to define myself by any label that furthers my aims.

Conversely, I reserve the right to refuse a label that prevents me from being fully equal or makes me less than.

In other words, I reserve the right to self-determination.

Karen

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

I reserve the right to define myself by any label that furthers my aims.

Conversely, I reserve the right to refuse a label that prevents me from being fully equal or less than.

In other words, I reserve the right to self-determination.

Karen

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Amen

<butting in a week late as usual, what can I say, I think slow>

This exact argument has gone on more times than I can count on my (rock) climber forum. Someone offhandedly throws a comment about "newbies who climb grade x", and everybody who has never been above grade x in the course of 15 years of climbing get all huffy about being called newbies.

What it basically boils down to is that if you do something you're proud of, and mentally have given yourself some kind of "title", you don't take kindly to someone else saying you're not worthy of that title. Especially not if they at the same time imply that they are more worthy of said title.

Sure it's a valid personal opinion, but it's not surprising if people don't like it.

And for the record - I could care less about what other people think of my cycling, but I HATE it when people call 5.10 climbers newbies... ;) Obviously my pride lies in climbing, not cycling.

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Originally Posted by lph

<butting in a week late as usual, what can I say, I think slow>

This exact argument has gone on more times than I can count on my (rock) climber forum. Someone offhandedly throws a comment about "newbies who climb grade x", and everybody who has never been above grade x in the course of 15 years of climbing get all huffy about being called newbies.

What it basically boils down to is that if you do something you're proud of, and mentally have given yourself some kind of "title", you don't take kindly to someone else saying you're not worthy of that title. Especially not if they at the same time imply that they are more worthy of said title.

Sure it's a valid personal opinion, but it's not surprising if people don't like it.

And for the record - I could care less about what other people think of my cycling, but I HATE it when people call 5.10 climbers newbies... ;) Obviously my pride lies in climbing, not cycling.

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Excellent post! I imagine there are folks here who identify deeply as "cyclists"...by the same token I imagine there are folks riding in the TDF who would scoff at those who identify that way.

I like Tucks post so I think I'll stick with that:

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

I reserve the right to define myself by any label that furthers my aims.

Conversely, I reserve the right to refuse a label that prevents me from being fully equal or makes me less than.

In other words, I reserve the right to self-determination.

Karen

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In one of Lance's books he stated something to the effect that "real" cyclists wouldn't even take the bike out of the garage for a ride of less than 3 hrs. Was I offended? No. Do I consider myself a cyclist? Yes - A recreational cyclist. I rode a bike from the time I was 4 until I went off to college. Did I consider myself a cyclist then? No. I was a bike rider. Do I consider the person riding on the wrong side of the street, with no helmet and wobbling all over a cyclist? No. But likely, neither does he. But I still make eye contact with him, raise a finger or say hello because I feel a kinship with anyone on a bike. There are all kinds of levels in life...what's wrong with just being a bike rider? It doesn't make you any less of a person. I'm not any less of a person because I can't ride 3 hrs with Lance...and I guess I agree with him on some level...I'm not a real cyclist...I'm a recreational cyclist. I have no delusions of being in the same league as Lance and the boys (and girls). I don't think it's denigrating at all to try to describe things on various levels. We're all cyclists in the literal sense...but that doesn't mean I can't define "cyclist" for myself in my own way.

Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

Queen, you beat me to the quote!! :) Or I didn't see it I guess.

ah, heck, I've been a cyclist since I was 3 on a red tricycle. Lance isn't more of a cyclist than me or any other kid. he might be faster, stronger, tougher, and a lot more famous than any other cyclist, but we're ALL cyclists if we like to ride bikes!

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Originally Posted by mimitabby

ah, heck, I've been a cyclist since I was 3 on a red tricycle. Lance isn't more of a cyclist than me or any other kid. he might be faster, stronger, tougher, and a lot more famous than any other cyclist, but we're ALL cyclists if we like to ride bikes!

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Absolutely, positively +1.

I note the OP is now 'guest' rather than her registered name. ??

Belle - I noted that as well. Hmmmmm.....:rolleyes: