WoolWeenies Club

Wow, keep the tips coming. When I visited Crankin in Boston, I wore a goretex pant over my jeans, and was OK but felt really dorky. I then proceeded to buy a primaloft coat and tall boots which worked fine in Boston over jeans and ibex on top, but I think it was only in the 30s.

But, now I am looking for travel clothes to take me from southern portugal to switzerland with the smallest number of pieces that can be combined in lots of different ways. And I think Switzerland will be colder than Boston was, and I will want to ski. I guess this is getting mixed up cuz its not always clear which responses are good for just walking around vs skiing, and I guess I am looking for clothes that in different combinations will work for both. So, its sounding like if I want to add one more piece the alpstar pant will do it, I just need some sizing help on it from anyone that owns it (do your actual body measurements match the size you ordered?).

But Catriona gave me another idea. The shebeest windpro tight is lined with powerfleece. I have one pair of wool pants that are a size too big, so if its really cold in switzerland I could put the tight on under the pants, and if its less cold pair them with the woolies for walking around.

Another thing to keep in mind are wool camisoles - ibex pointelle or the icebreaker ones. Those are great for layering and can be worn alone in warmer climates with a wool zip up over it. Portugal's probably still going to be in the 50's?

Oh Catriona, you have me so overwhelmed. I just looked at that arcteyrx tau pant and it looks lovely for walking around.

Maybe I should order both the alpster and tau pants in assorted sizes, and return what doesn't work.....

I do have a number of ibex tank tops that I use for around here under blouses, so I am good with those. But that's another great idea, layering those under one of my base layers.

So, while I know everyone is diff, Catriona tell me another thing, what would be the warmest temperature you would wear the tau and alpster out in (not for sports now, just walking around). I know that I froze in DC in lined wool dress pants in the 30s with wind (I think it was the wind went right through them), but I had no base layer on either.

What I'd take:
Top layers:
Maybe 1 short sleeve wool shirt if you have one in case it's warm in Portugal.

A couple wool tank tops or camisoles

1 full zip wool layer or fleece layer.

At least 2 lightweight wool tops - icebreaker chakra or their 150 weight stuff.

Your ibex shaks or comparable 260-320 weight icebreaker.

If you need more warmth - bringing a vest along would be useful. A lot of the down ones fold in on themselves and don't use up a lot of space. You can sometimes get the kids north face nuptse vests pretty cheap and the kids large & x-large are actually quite big.

You seem to like jeans, so take your jeans.... They'll be fine for portugal and with your woolies or your sheebeast tights underneath them you'll probably be fine. But if you were putting your goretex pants over the jeans in boston, maybe you won't be.

1 pair of either goretex shell pants or some sort of softshell pants for skiing - You can probably do it in the ibex alpstars, but if you've already got the goretex shell pants, just stick with those. Softshell pants are more comfortable than goretex, they're warmer and you won't look as goofy just walking around town in them.

A couple pairs of ibex woolies (I dno't know how long your trip is and how many times you want to wear the same wool over and over - so if you don't want to change clothes to much - you can leave this off) or smartwool or icebreaker tights. If you had to, you could make them layer over each other for more warmth.

1 thicker pair of baselayers - your sheebeast tights if you want, or whatever

Wool hat of some sort.

A balaclava of some sort - I like the seirus windproof ones (this is for skiing)

Scarf

Gloves - I usually use a thin liner glove - there's the arc'teryx delegate ones that are wool, or patagonia capilene, and then a thicker layer over that (arc'teryx has nice fleecy ones and REI's got some nice midweight gloves), and then a goretex or waterproof shell over that. I also sometimes just use a softshell type glove with a shell over that. If you buy an insulated glove and bring it - if you need to adjust anything while skiing you get cold when you take them off. If you need brands or suggestions of these, let me know and I can go look.

Socks:
If you bring tall smartwool socks for skiing - remember those can also be used for layering when you're going around town in your jeans & woolies. I usually use a capilene liner sock under my ski socks. I don't like wearing more than that while skiing.

And you can decide on whatever other casual clothes you want.

It's going to depend somewhat on how windy it is and how you acclimatize to the temperature. I find after a few days skiing, I'm walking around town with my jacket & fleece completely unzipped because compared to the top of the mountain, it really doesn't feel all that cold.

yeah, 50's is like a warm Seattle winter day (as opposed to a cold Seattle winter day) and that sounds like a lot too much to wear while riding.
When the temp is 40 degrees, I need a light hat, warm gloves (or double gloves)
a light-medium wool inside layer (think of a cashmere sweater) then on top of that, a bike jersey and on top of that a raincoat. add booties and that's really it for that temperate. when it's in the 50's I wear just that inside sweater and a jersey on top and maybe a light vest - while riding.

m

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl

Oh Catriona, you have me so overwhelmed. I just looked at that arcteyrx tau pant and it looks lovely for walking around.

Maybe I should order both the alpster and tau pants in assorted sizes, and return what doesn't work.....

So, while I know everyone is diff, Catriona tell me another thing, what would be the warmest temperature you would wear the tau and alpster out in (not for sports now, just walking around). I know that I froze in DC in lined wool dress pants in the 30s with wind (I think it was the wind went right through them), but I had no base layer on either.

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Alright, I live sort of northeast of the dc area, closer to the mountains so it tends to be a little cooler out here. It's snowing out there now and 34 degrees. I just went out and stood outside in my tau pants and I found it doable. I only have ankle socks on, and I've have preferred taller socks because the pants are a little loose around the ankle. So I'd wear the tau pants to maybe 30 degrees and then stick some ibex woolies underneath. Probably the same with the alpstar pants. I was wearing the alpstar pants at Keystone in Colorado last February without base layers underneath them and walking around. (I think without base layers) without a problem. I don't know the temperature, but it was cold and at a ski resort.

On top I was cold, but I'm only wearing an ibex camisole & a patagonia synchilla hoody (also an extremely warm layer), and I just got back from a bike ride so I'm a little chilled in general.

On the bike ride I was wearing the tau pants, ankle socks, and some 3/4 length cycling tights - if I did it again, I'd put longer socks on or some leg warmers. I only stayed out for 20 mins, long enough to start getting warmed up, but to severely regret not taking some sort of face cover or thicker gloves. (so I wimped out and came back to the house)

Last week in the 30 degree DC temps - I think I was wearing my prana fleece lined pants and was fine walking about - but I really didn't do much walking about outside other than back and forth to my car. I think I spent sometime walking around at night on my cell phone because it wasn't working in the house, and I think I was wearing my tau pants then without a problem.

I should really not show you more arc'teryx stuff, because it's a more expensive addiction than ibex...

However a really nice arc'teryx layer is the arc'teryx emissary. There's a hoody version. I'd say it's similar to the shak, but heavier weight and it's wool.
http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/out...rt-Womens.html

Thanks everyone for all the help, and Catriona, don't bother to look up the sizing tonite. I was worried the backcountry 20% off sale would end today, and I am gonna be busy tonite, so I went ahead and ordered all three pants you recommended: the ibex alpstar, the praana and the art'yrex tau in a couple of sizes each. I'll only keep what I love. I actually do this a lot, especially until I learn how the sizing runs in brands I am not used to. While I try to get things on sale, I am pretty selective about what I buy, I won't buy something just cuz its on sale, I have to really love it. Hence, the Ibex addiction..................... WHile I love my arc-tyrex parka, I think Ibex will always be first in my heart, the arc-tyrex folks use too many synthetics for my taste. I even bought and returned a fleece they make that is the same color as my parka, but then returned it cuz I didn't really like the fleece and worried it would get stinky traveling.

I must admit though, I am *most excited* about the ibex alpstar pant, but I'll give the others a shot too (afterall this is the wool weenies and not winter apparel thread.......). I really think at this point my bottom is my problem. In fact, the main reason I bought my long primaloft coat last year, was to keep my bottom half from getting cold, and the first thing I noticed when I tried to wear the arctyrex parka in DC last week, was how cold my lower body felt. So, I think this means I've got the top thing down (and I only had 1 shak and 1 light base on, so room for more on top when I go to a colder place). I even own a patagonia down vest, and while it fits under my parka, it does make me look puffier than I like but yeh, it folds down real small so probably is a piece I should bring along.

Another interesting tidbit about owning stuff for very cold weather as a person that lives in a mild climate, is that we don't have central heating either in our house here or in our family home in portugal, so I do need warmer stuff indoors than folks that live in cold places. In fact, what drove me crazy in DC is that stuff I wear here in san antonio everyday at work had me overheating there in interiors. Same thing in Boston. But, then they don't sell this kind of clothing here, so its really hard to get sized, etc. for mail orders. UPS is definitely my friend................. Can't wait to get home tonite and try on my hooded shak. But given I already have 2 full zip shaks, I just know I'm gonna love it.......................

Great! I have a huge return box currently to go back to backcountry/sac/chainlove. So as you can with my extensive knowledge of all ibex & arc'teryx pieces, I end up ordering & returning a lot with them as well.

The only fleece from arc'teryx that I think is worth buying is the maverick sv. My all time favorite fleece is the patagonia lw r4 - hands down the warmest fleece for weight.

Arc'teryx does have a wool line - the rho w line, the emissary, and a few other pieces, but it's not really their strong point. Their hardshells, softshells, and packs are.

I have a lot of wool - but I still keep a lot of my synthetic stuff for different purposes.

Is the ibex shak full zip any heavier than the half zip or the hoody? I've got 3 of the half zips & 1 hoody. NOt that I need any more wool fullzips

I hope I didn't lead you astray with any of my suggestions.

What's even worse in DC is the summers - where it's 95 degrees out + 95% humidity, and the air conditioning makes it 70 degrees indoors....

So if you dress for the weather, you freeze to death inside.

Well, I am a bit disappointed by the hooded shak, probably it will go back. It does let me add another layer, but it fits kind of like a sack or sweat shirt, not the sleek fit of the full zip shaks.

Catriona, the fabric is thinner than the full zip shak, and the cut is longer, although I am comparing a medium hoodie to a small full zip. Perhaps I don't like the cut cuz I got the medium, and while it layers just fine over my small full zip shak, the cut of the sleeves makes me start to feel too constricted around my arm pits yet its baggy around my torso. I also don't like the finger thingies either, and not sure I really need the hood since I have plenty of hats and neck gaitors (and it looks goofy on me). So..........back it goes.

But, the good news is I tried Lisa's suggestion of layering more under my shak. I didn't think I had room, but I got two midweight shirts under just fine (a norgie crew and zepher zip T in the same color, both smalls, and it looks cool together). Then I put my medium PI gavia jacket over that and my medium arc'tyrex parka over that, and had plenty of room to move since the sleeves of the gavia are less constricting than double shaking felt. I also like that my top 3 layers are full zips as I move indoors.

I like the woolie bottoms, they are very soft, and fit well, although they come quite high above my natural waist, and they are a tad long. Can I expect them to shrink a little? But, I am not sure that coming up so high is such a big deal, since its covered by my shirts. What surprised me is that they fit even under my slimmest cut size 4 pants. So, now I have to decide if I shouldn't worry about them coming so high. I did try a smartwool bottom on in a store and it was lower cut, so I could replace them with those. But I have had better luck with Ibex over smartwool, so not sure what to do. I think I'll probably keep them, Perhaps having the waistband come some high will just keep me warmer and helps them fit better under pants.

Catriona, you were a great help to me today! I know I went a little crazy on the pants order, but I really need to try this stuff on. I do hope I like the fit of the alpstar pant, as its my favorite from the pix and description, and I may have ordered too large on some since I keep overestimating my size, but that's in part cuz I lost 35 pounds 1.5 years ago, but still can't accept that I am really small on the bottom. I was really surprised how much looser small woolies felt than the small smartwool midweight tights I tried on in a store. I just can't seem to figure out my size.

Well I am finally 'getting it'. You guys must think I am such an idiot, but its really hard to figure out how to dress in a place that is a lot colder than where you live. But I woke up this morning, and it was cold in my house (remember no central heating) which made it a lot easier to try things own.

I continued to explore Lisa's idea of putting two base layers under a shak. DUH........ why didn't I try it before? I think cuz it was already so close fitting but its fine. Today I paired a kate with a norgie crew. Then I dug out my LLBean fleece in small sizes from 20 years ago, and it paired over that just great, with or without a shak underneath. So, I am absolutely set on top.

I was sitting in my freezing cold family room drinking coffee (just fired up the gas radiator but it hadn't kicked in yet, and never gets the large space it has to heat terribly warm), toasty warm on top, but cold on the bottom. SO, I slipped a pair of woolies on under my jeans. Yeh, the waistband sits higher than the top of my jeans, but with the kate tucked in over it no one can tell. Hmmm, toasty warm. Warm enough to go to the cold garage and dig out my husband's winter clothes (as he stayed indoors wrapped in a down comforter). These are a keeper..........

I don't know why I thought I needed to size up my clothes to fit more layers underneath. These pieces are so thin its just not a problem. A guy in an outdoor shop explained to me that the shaks are really designed to wear over a base, not over another shak, which is why sizing up just didn't work for me. He also pressed me to get smalls when I wasn't sure on stuff, explaining that these layers are designed to fit close to the body to work well.

For layering over my shak, I decided that I like garments that are my size (small), but designed for layering so they had wider arms. I know double shaking works great for a lot of you, but maybe my arms are thicker or something. But, the good news is that since my daughter is coming home for thanksgiving next week, I can let her try on all the medium stuff I ordered and see if any of it works for her before making the return packages (and its very hard for her to find time to shop as a busy student which is why she asked me to get her the woolies in the first place). I bet the hooded shak is a great piece for a college student in boston who doesn't own any ibex yet, its a beautiful garment it just doesn't fit me.......... I also ordered on the midlayer zip Ts on TE with the coupon in M, but now realize it won't fit, but it would also look lovely with her grey suit or under a shak..... She recently lost 20 lb and went form a L to a M, so she also needs some new clothes. SO, now I don't feel so ridiculous that I ordered so many things in so many diff. sizes, maybe I'll help her also even out her wardrobe.

I am so glad I bought the arc'tyrex parka. I got the idea from Catriona's response to wackyjacky who querried about columbia 3-in-1s. I have an old columbia 3-in-1 but its too big, so I too was looking for a better approach. I knew in theory layering under a goretex shell was better, but then it took me a long time to figure out exactly how to do it. I bought most of my ibex on closeout last year, so it was a bit random, but now I am finally figuring it all out. Some of what I need to do in europe is professional, some is vacation, some is active sports, and I am still amazed how I can combine the very same pieces in different ways to generate combinations that work for all 3. That is why I am a wool weenie/ibex addict!

Thanks for the input Mimi! I do understand what to wear to ride my bike at any temperature. Its how to deal with trips to very cold places (i.e. teens to 20s) and skiing that I am working out now, or trips that take in a wide range of climates. But with everyones help here, I've got a plan! Another problem for me is that when I travel, I am not acclimated, so often I need to dress warmer than folks that live in a place. But the breathability of merino works so well even if I overdo I am usually still OK.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

yeah, 50's is like a warm Seattle winter day (as opposed to a cold Seattle winter day) and that sounds like a lot too much to wear while riding.
When the temp is 40 degrees, I need a light hat, warm gloves (or double gloves)
a light-medium wool inside layer (think of a cashmere sweater) then on top of that, a bike jersey and on top of that a raincoat. add booties and that's really it for that temperate. when it's in the 50's I wear just that inside sweater and a jersey on top and maybe a light vest - while riding.

m

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OK, I know you are sick of my posts, so I promise this will be the last one. While my woolies feel so comfy, when I took my pants off I realized the fit is rather loose. Then I noticed they come in XS. Never in my life have I been an XS in anything, but should they hug the body, or should they feel a little loose? Will they shrink? I also don't want them to be too small or they'll tear more. Any thoughts? I know the smartwool fits more snugly in the same size, but I read reviews that they tear quite easily.

I would think woolies should be on the tighter side; too loose and they might not fit under other stuff.
What size I wear depends totally on the brand! Size creep is a wonderful thing. Seriously, I am a true extra small in Ibex tops, but a small on the bottom. However, there some Ibex styles in pants that I just can't wear. The x smalls are way too tight and the smalls are too big. I don't have any woolies, so I can't be specific, but you may well wear an x small.
My red half zip Shak came already! I know you didn't like the feel of it, but it is good for hiking as either an mid layer or top layer. I wore my black one once for cycling in the cold and it was too warm! I also ordered 2 micro weight smart wool tops, but I have to try those on...

Dear Wool Weenies, I nearly succombed to the purchase of a patagonia down sweater yesterday. But then, I got a new idea. While double shaking didn't work for me, when I got to work this morning, I saw my ibex full zip boucle hanging up (looks like a full zip shak but made from boucle not shak wool), which I know has a snugger fit than my shaks, even though the size is the same. So, I asked what would happen if I slipped it on between the Smartwool mideweight half zip T I had just gotten from TE (which is lovely by the way despite being a M.........) and my shak, and bingo, I've got my heavier merino layers down!

So, what I am learning, is that sizing in this stuff is CRAZY, even within one line. While I clearly prefer small tops in ibex, I think I am gonna need an XS woolie bottom (which is on order..........). When the med SM midweight full zip arrived from TE, I was pleasantly surprised that I liked the fit. I wanted to compare it to a small, so I went to a store nearby that stocks limited SM. What I found is that both pieces fit (I think cuz the fabric is very stretchy), and if I just wanted a very close fitting base layer for sports I would probably go with a SM, but to wear over another mideweight baselayer (i.e. Ibex ribbie, mmmmmmmm), it is perfect, and also for a more professional look with suits it is perfect. I tried their bottoms and their M lightweight bottom fit like my S Ibex bottom, while their S bottom was perfect. So I am hopeful the XS ibex woolie on order will fit like the S smart wool bottom. I did like the weight of the wool a tad better on the ibex than on the smart wool piece. I also like that I can layer my wool blazers over the midweight half zip Ts (with or without another base underneath) and under my goretex shell for professional stuff.

Doesn't this women's sizing stuff drive you crazy??? How can clothes sized 4-8, XS-M, all fit the same body???????????? Guys have it so much easier, they input their waist size and inseam and bingo, whatever they order fits.

Crankin is right though, the ibex hooded shak is a lovely piece, I just think for me I got the wrong size, and the look wasn't what I was going after. But I didn't send it back yet, cuz it may be perfect for my daughter to hike or go around town in chilly boston in, and its her normal size. For me sizing up to layer didn't work, but what I have noticed is that different ibex pieces even that are all the same size, have trimmer vs looser fits, and that is what allows them to be combined in different ways. I aquired my ibex a bit haphazardly, ordered stuff that was on closeout at the end of last season in colors and styles that were appealing. But, I am finding they pair up in ways I hadn't anticipated to really give me the verstaility I am looking for to deal with a range of climates and situations (from mountaintops to no indoor heating to probably overheated interiors.........). I think the only way I'll really figure this out is to take this trip, and see what works when I am in a range of situations.

So, I think I am done shopping. All that's left is to try on what's coming and make the return packages. The worst case scenario is if the woolies XS bottom doesn't fit I'll exchange it for smartwool S bottom.

Thanks again for everyones help and sorry if you are bored to tears reading my naive crazy posts!

Nope, not boring. I can live vicariously through all of your purchases, without spending a dime!
The Smart Wool micro weight T fit perfectly, a bit long, but not as bad as my Craft base layers. I wore it hiking yesterday, with the new half zip Shak over it, and my Go Light jacket on top. I had to unzip a little about half way through, but otherwise it was a good combo. It was 32 and sunny, but we were in the woods, so not a lot of warmth. Really my first truly cold outdoor activity of the season.

OK, off to the train.

No worries Triskelion girl - I was busy all weekend and today. But it sounds like you've got everything almost under control. Get the x-small bottoms, loose bottoms are kind of annoying.

I know I've mentioned it like 80 times in here, but I've had a lot of my smartwool stuff randomly get holes after 1-2 washes, and have never had that with ibex or icebreaker. A fair number of people in the steepandcheap forums have complained about that as well with smartwool.

Catriona, thanks for confirming my ibex bias.......... Other than socks, the midweight zip-T is my first clothing purchase from smartwool. It seems sturdy, but the microweight bottoms made me uneasy and I've read a lot of reports of them tearing, but not of the woolies. I hope the top holds up. the color (orchid heather) looks wonderful over my ibex raspberry woolie........... and under a grey or black suit..............

Hopefully I'll be thrilled with the XS woolies that are due to arrive tomorrow! Zappos had them on sale, plus a 20% off coupon, plus free overnight shipping w free returns, so I'll know soon enough. I have one icebreaker thin base t that is scratchy, and I found their sizing terribly inconsistent, I've ordered small tops that run like mediums and small tops that run like XS, so most of what I've ordered from them has gone back. I also don't find their stuff works as well as 'scientist sheek', looks that I can either give a research seminar in or play in, with subtle modifications...... A little too on the sport only size, with the finger thingies and sport stripes.

I can't wait for wed, the day my children arrive home from college and the rest of my packages come! That way my daughter and I can try on all the goodies in the assorted sizes together. She is one size up from me, so maybe I won't be sending back that much at all if things work out right. I did get good deals on everything I ordered, loads of coupons, etc.

I think I am most excited about the ibex alpstar pant. Maybe it will make an Ibex 'suit' when paired with a shak......at least for a scientist rather than a business person!

Trisk,
You will find that the Smartwool mid-weight zip top is very sturdy and warm and soft. I too have had occasional tiny holes pop up with the microweight SW stuff (easily sewn but annoying nonetheless), but the mid-weight is very durable- I've worn and washed mine dozens of times and no problem.

Incidentally, I've been wearing my SheBeest WindPro tight so much lately in the 20'sF, that I just ordered a second pair so I can rotate them while laundering. They are the warmest solo-wearing tight I have, on days that I don't want to layer 2 tights together.

OOh thanks lisa that is so good to know... You are such a great font of information! In fact, my small windpro tight also fits a tad loose, and while I was tempted to send it back for an XS, I figured that was Ok if I wanted to layer it over a shebeest tech tight for cold weather cycling, but I guess I could also layer it over the XS woolies if they fit right.

So, do you go out in just the woolies/windpro tight for a hike, or do you put that under a pant or goretex shell? I thought I could put it under a goretex shell to ski.

I am now realizing that all that stuff I thought was just a tiny bit big is great for layering stuff underneath!

*sigh* I wish you hadn't mentioned an ibex sale.

I've had 2 midweight crews and 2 midweight smartwool tights develop the random holes. Probably about 6 of the lightweight shirts have developed holes, and a bunch of the socks. I do throw them in the washer, but I don't put them in the dryer.

I'm not sure if it's a quality control issue or what - because some pieces I can use over & over without developing holes, and others will just develop holes almost instantly. I haven't seen it in any of their heavier weight stuff, but usually those are sweaters or zip ups that I don't wash often.

Scientist Chic - do we have to dress up anymore? Some of the icebreaker works well for it... Look at the nomad hoody (okay, so I think it might have thumbloops), the nature line is really nice, and then the jetter jacket. Some of the sport 320 stuff that's just solid colors can also be dress up. thumbloops aren't noticable unless you put your thumbs in them.

Trying on ibex with your daughter sounds like it would be a blast. I can't say that I have gotten my mother interested in wool at all, however a couple of years ago the Anne Taylor loft outlet near my mother's would quite often have sweaters or sleeveless vests in cashmere or wool for $5 each in the summer... and my mother & I used to have quite a lot of fun buying that up.

By scientist chic, I mean that there are situations where I need to look professional, but with an edge, that is not like a business person. So for that I have 2 wool suits, one black and one grey. For each suit I bought 2 pairs of pants and one jacket (all from ann taylor loft at 70% off). I can then either pair the pants with a black or purple heather full zip shak, or with a suit jacket. If I wear the suit jackets, I like to dress them down with a zip T. Then to dress down further as I move from work to play, I pair the shaks with jeans, etc. Even this trip to europe involves both family stuff and professional visits with talks at universities in seville, madrid and lausanne. I won't bother to bring the suit jackets, but the dress pants and shaks will be perfect to give seminars in. I only wear the suit jackets when I have to go to DC to serve on government panels, or to give a very formal talk at a very large meeting.

Oh, my daughter just called. She is soooo freezing in boston right now. She can't wait to come home and pick up her wool! She also just lost a lot of weight and is getting cold more easily and doesn't have much that fits her. So, I have a feeling I am not going to be sending much back at all.............

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl

So, do you go out in just the woolies/windpro tight for a hike, or do you put that under a pant or goretex shell? I thought I could put it under a goretex shell to ski.

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I don't ski, but I do snowshoe and I fitness-walk for miles in the cold and snow.
I have a pair of rain pants (thin but waterproof) that I put on one time snowshoeing in heavy wet snow conditions, but they were pretty hot over my wool tights, didn't breathe, not sure if I'd choose them in any but the worst conditions or going out in a blizzard or a long cold woodland hike.
My layering depends totally on the weather conditions which of course vary tremendously, so it's hard to tell you what I do "in general"...i've used dozens of different layering combinations in all kinds of weather. I keep learning new tricks every day, or abandoning old ones.
Generally, one warm pair of warm tights are enough down to 40F, then between 40 and 30F maybe just the WindpPro tights OR a combo of 2 other tights (like maybe my underArmor tights and my Ibex wool tights over those for instance). Below 35F I'll pair two of my heavier tights, or the Craft Storm tights. Below 25 I'll put my underarmor tights under my Storm tights or under my WindPro tights.
The SheBeest Tech tights are fairly warm, so when I need a chamois for a long cold ride I'll wear those and maybe pull some Ibex wool tights over them.

Catriona- about all those holes...it seems like an awful lot of holes you are getting! You and i have many of the exact same items but you are getting way more holes than I am. Are you using regular detergent? Regular agitation cycle in the wash?
I use only Woolite (granted not everyone thinks Woolite is great but it works well for me) and I set the washer to the GENTLE cycle and WARM/COLD temp. I do this for ALL my laundry.
Somewhere I once read that regular laundry detergent slowly eats away at the delicate merino fibers and weakens them. Just a possibility to consider.

Hey Catriona, I just noticed in another thread you are a scientist too, so you should know what I mean. I just got back from SFN in DC, and while there the most common thing was a wool blazer with casual slacks, that's still too much of a uniform for my taste, so I prefer the dress pants with the casual shak sweater on top. It varies with the meeting though. I had to give a talk at the japanese neurosci society meeting this summer, and everyone but me was in a business suit, both male and female. I wore an ann taylor dress with a nice sweater jacket so it was fine, but again, its my retaliation against a uniform. I looked professional, but had my own personal style.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl

Hey Catriona, I just noticed in another thread you are a scientist too, so you should know what I mean. I just got back from SFN in DC, and while there the most common thing was a wool blazer with casual slacks, that's still too much of a uniform for my taste, so I prefer the dress pants with the casual shak sweater on top. It varies with the meeting though. I had to give a talk at the japanese neurosci society meeting this summer, and everyone but me was in a business suit, both male and female. I wore an ann taylor dress with a nice sweater jacket so it was fine, but again, its my retaliation against a uniform. I looked professional, but had my own personal style.

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My Mom had a friend once that worked in a Kasper outlet - so I have a gazillion Kaspar suits... I tend to just pack one blazer with me and at least wear that if I'm giving a talk or something like that. I really like the keystone symposias (not only because I get to ski), so most of my meetings lately are at ski resorts... and there's usually a lot of people walking around in their ski gear. I tend to just put the blazer on over a wool sweater or shirt when necessary, and pants are usually the alpstars or the REI mistral pants (another softshell pant). However, quite a few don't even bother with that and just give their presentations in their ski clothing.

Yeh, that works at a ski meeting. Its just when you go to a meeting in a more formal location like a big city, that I like to have something a little dressier. We went to a cool meeting on the costa brava, where we cycled every afternoon in the foothills of the pyrenes, and you better believe we showed up for the morning session in cycling clothes to be ready to ride after lunch. In fact, one of the european teams was holding a training camp at the very same hotel, so we got to get ideas for routes from them.

But that is one of the cool things about science, there aren't a lot of rules about dress. Interestingly, we were visiting older colleagues in cambridge recently, and they told us they really hold it against a scientist that isn't dressed 'professionally' (not at a ski meeting or gordon conference where casual dress is de riguer) but at a big city meeting or seminar visit. So, as I've gotten older, I've learned that to some people its a sign of disrespect if they invite you to give a seminar and you don't dress 'professionally.' So, I started dressing better for these events, but still like to exert my personal style which means often means a zipped shak rather than a blazer. The other time I realized clothes matter is when trying to get money, especially from certain agencies that expect a more businesslike look. That is when I wear my suits. But sometimes I wear them cuz they look sharp, especially since I lost weight and bought some nicely tailored ones.

I just had to approve 3 abstracts for a Keystone meeting.

Oh yeah, I like wool too. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl

But that is one of the cool things about science, there aren't a lot of rules about dress. Interestingly, we were visiting older colleagues in cambridge recently, and they told us they really hold it against a scientist that isn't dressed 'professionally' (not at a ski meeting or gordon conference where casual dress is de riguer) but at a big city meeting or seminar visit. So, as I've gotten older, I've learned that to some people its a sign of disrespect if they invite you to give a seminar and you don't dress 'professionally.' So, I started dressing better for these events, but still like to exert my personal style which means often means a zipped shak rather than a blazer. The other time I realized clothes matter is when trying to get money, especially from certain agencies that expect a more businesslike look. That is when I wear my suits. But sometimes I wear them cuz they look sharp, especially since I lost weight and bought some nicely tailored ones.

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I have some really nice wool sweaters from icelandic design. I often wear those when I'm "dressing up"

http://www.rei.com/outlet/search?vca...x=0&button.y=0

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/sea...criptions=True


I'm going to a keystone in January, I'm all excited. Skiing sucks here.

Nice, yeh I much prefer a nice sweater to a blazer. BTW, I did just order a lot of stuff from backcountry with the 20% coupon code. Its not advertised at the site anymore but it does still work. PM me if you need it. They have a ton of ibex, some on sale plus the 20% off coupon and free shipping..........

My XS woolies arrived today..........mmmmmmmmmmmmm.............soft, now I get why Lisa wears them as PJs. In fact, I haven't taken them off yet. I am sitting here in my woolie bottom and SM zip T top, so cozy. That will also work great on our trip since I can have my baselayers double as sleepwear.

They are much more comfy and robust feeling than the smart wool bottoms, but still light feeling. I still am so surprised they fit even under my slim cut pants, I had this idea I'd need to wear loose pants with them. I think that is why I didn't buy any last year.

Oh, I so want to LOVE the alpstar pants, I just hope they fit me well. I am a little worried they report a pretty short inseam, but we'll see.

You know, I am actually excited when they are predicting cold weather, cuz it means I can wear more Ibex!!

Trisk, I have never worn anything but a pair of long underwear (silk, either light weight or mid weight) under my Ibex tights for snow shoeing, hiking, or x country skiing. I don't know what style the Ibex tights are; my husband bought them for me on STP before I knew what that was! They are part wool and part wind block fabric and extremely warm. I hiked in them in Lake Placid in -8 temps. There would be no need to wear anything over something like these. They are not quite as skin tight like cycling tights, but almost as tight.
It finally warmed up a bit here. It actually felt warmer tonight coming home from Cambridge than when I left at 11. I have to get up at 4:30 to head to San Diego, where I will be forgetting about wool. Well, I did pack my Shak for the evenings.

Well, my kids arrived and my packages arrived........

First surprise was my daughter fell in love with the M hooded shak (her first ibex piece, is this the gateway drug?). Its amazing how the same piece can look so differently on two different bodies. It fit her really well and is very flattering. Everything about it that I disliked she loved. The smile on her face as she slipped her fingers into the the finger thingies I hated, and pulled up the hood.......... Then I had her try my M patagonia down vest that I picked up at 75% off last spring. Bingo, another hit (especially over that hooded shak, warm and stylish!). Looked way better than the large clothes she arrived in (a big puffy fleece and down vest both a size too large for her). This made me feel much better since I didn't like at all how it looked on me but couldn't justify buying myself a different piece since I could wear it if I needed to. I knew it was too big when I bought it, but let the sale thing get to me. But giving her the vest let me justify finally getting myself the down sweater I'd been wanting for the last couple years. I tried it on in a store and it layers beautifully over a shak and under a shell, its very slim fitting and flattering (and its on TE at 33% off right now......). I know some of you think its too much, but it packs so tiny (comes w stuff sack) I think it will be great as an insurance policy, and I know myself well enough to know I'll need it if it drops below 20.

She took off to see some friends before the pants order arrived, so we didn't try those on together yet. But they screwed up the sizing on my order. I ordered the ibex alpstar pant in a 4 and 6, and they sent a 4 and 8. Wouldn't you know the 4 was a tad tight in the hips (could zip but no room for layers) and the 8 was too big. Its a lovely piece, the only one I liked of the 3 styles I ordered, but I am not sure its worth exchanging for the 6 since the waist on the 4 was actually too loose while the rest was a little tight. I am also not sure its worth the $ now that I have the woolie bottoms. It seems to me that I should be OK with the woolies paired with either my wool dress pants for casual/work stuff, or the shebeest windpro tight under my goretex pant for skiing or active stuff. Perhaps if I skiied a lot or lived in a colder place it would be worth it, but maybe its just an item I get only if I can find it very heavily discounted. If they sent the 6 it might have been hard to send back, but they didn't so maybe it just means I am just finished. I am like that, I don't shop for months, and then I realize I need something for a trip and get all focussed on shopping for a little while.

So, unless someone wants to tell me I must re-order the ibex alpstar pant, I am finished shopping!

Triskelion - do your alpstars have velcro on the inside of the waist? Mine have an adjustment that you can cinch in the waist on them.

Sorry I led you astray on all the pants!

You should definitely take the down sweater. My current favorites for downs are the mountain hardwear phantom (very lightweight 800 fill), the cloudveil down patrol (windproof down with pitzips), and the mammut pilgrim jacket (hooded downy lusciousness).

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Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl

(and its on TE at 33% off right now......).

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Well, technically is 31.4% off. (It's a Pi Sale) :D Right here: http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodPA_84626.html

Of particular interest to Wool Weenies are the Ibex items here:

http://www.teamestrogen.com/ibex/pro...roductAge-desc

and the Smartwool items here:

http://www.teamestrogen.com/smartwoo...roductAge-desc

Enjoy!

Susan

Actually Susan's link is to the down sweater vest, which she calls an ultralight down vest, but everyone else calls a down sweater vest.

The one I got is this one, the actual down sweater (again TE calls it the ultralight down jacket but every one else calls it a down sweater):
http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodPA_84681.html

I think Susan did this so people wouldn't confuse them with their heavier down jackets. I tried this item on so many times in a store but couldn't bring myself to spend $200 on it. It is 800 fill down and is amazingly flattering on me (I have a broad back, small waist, and medium hips). It's the best thing I've found to layer over a full zip shak that isn't bulky but really adds warmth. I also think it will be good on a long cold airplane flight when the shak isn't enough. Again, its amazing how compact it is in its stuff sack for travel.

Catriona, yes the pants have those straps to adjust, but maybe I didn't do it right, rather than laying smooth it made it bunch in the areas where you adjust it. It is such a lovely piece though, maybe I should ring them up about an exchange order......... Its the only piece I think that is practical for me. The other pants were nice, but the prana pant was way too long and puffy, and I think I ordered the wrong size (M on the size chart but kind of big) but it just seemed way too heavy, its like a fleece attached to a shell, so something very bulky to pack that could only be used under very cold circumstances. The acrtyrex pant struck me as a very expensive hi-tech sweat pant, just not my style. But, you do have me reconsidering the alpstar...........oh the temptation...... I do really like them, and am pretty sure the 6 would work. Do you actually think I will be cold with woolies under a lined wool dress pant on the bottom and my arctyrex shell and layers on top? If so I could always order a midweight base layer to put under the wool pants.

And don't worry, you didn't lead me astray at all. Your suggestions have been very helpful. I think I am more averse to synthetics than you are. I am not fond of fleece. The shebeest wind pro stuff is different (and also available right here on TE!), very high tech and functional, same with goretex, but otherwise I love my natural fibers, wool, down, etc.

Had to take advantage of the Pi sale... I got my husband a jersey, a Shebeest sweater I'd been looking at for months, and (the best) a pair of Ibex boy shorts underwear. I am tired of having a cold rear when hiking.
It's been warm but raining off and on in San Diego. Took a walk on the pier at Mission Beach and around La Jolla, but no cycling this holiday. We brought hiking stuff, but I don't know if we'll have time. So, I guess this is mostly an eating vacation.
I will be wearing my Shak tonight, though, it's in the 50s.

I can't remember if you got your alpstars from backcountry or zappos - but if you got them from backcountry, get on chat or call them and tell them they sent you the wrong size alpstars - they will send you out the right size if you want, but also ask them for a prepaid shipping label because of the mistake... They'll email you one of those and you can return everything you need with that.

The tau are high tech sweat pants, but they're warm & windproof ones.

If you're walking about town, you should be warm enough in woolies & your dress pants. I wouldn't ski in your dress pants though :)

The patagonia down sweater's are really nice. Patagonia changed their sizing chart a couple of years ago and I don't find that I like their fit as much anymore. I tend to live in their organic cotton t-shirts in the summer. But I'm going to be in Salt Lake City in a month so I can go to the patagonia outlet store!

I do a lot of kayaking, hiking, and skiing in addition to cycling - so I vary what I use depending on activity. Synthetics definitely have their purposes. Down is not something I want while on a kayak camping trip, I need things that will still insulate if they get wet, so I use a primaloft sleeping bags and jackets for that. If I'm climbing on rocks or something like that, I'd really rather abuse something synthetic than my nice wool.

Thanks Catriona. I never did the live chat before but it worked great. He even emailed me the return label while we were online. So, yeh, I'll get free return shipping and I'll have the size 6's here on wed. I'll wait to be sure I love the 6s before I do the return package, but from the way the 4s and 8s fit I am sure I will. I looked again at the velcro tabs, and I just need to adjust them more carefully. They do seem light and versatile, I was just so upset about the size mixup, and didn't want to start over with another order, etc. So, I'll have one pair of technical casual wool pants. Last year was about outfitting my top half in ibex, this year its my bottom half. But now I am done, really, I am. For me at least, but the saga continues..........

Dear Daugther returned home from seeing her friends, and wool weenies, WHAT HAVE I DONE??? All she asked me to get her was 2 pairs of long johns, and she tried the woolie bottoms on, and asked, can I have MORE? MORE ibex she wants.... She went from having no wool, to having a shak hoodie and 2 woolies overnight, and she wants MORE!!! So tomorrow, we sit down for some TE PIE, and make her another order, this time sent to her at school since she goes back on sunday.

FYI, she also needed to size down on the woolies which is great. She is usually a medium, but took the smalls I originally ordered for me. Just as I had hoped, since I had already worn one pair so couldn't return it anymore. I'll just send the mediums back in my backcountry return.

Backcountry, steepandcheap, tramdock, and chainlove have a 100% satisfaction guarantee (as does Altrec.com and rei.com) - so you can basically return anything anytime whether or not you've worn it. I don't abuse it - but when something just doesn't work or gets a hole or fails in some other way, I do return them used. Backcountry sells their returned used stuff on geartrade.com

You've created another ibex monster.

Its getting worse, the monster is stealing MY ibex now............ she saw my ibex loppet jersey I bought used from Kathi right here on TE hanging on the drying rack, and while its a small she tried it on and noticed it fit her PERFECTLY. That's OK, even though its a small its the least favorite in my collection since it fits more like a medium, and I'm not thrilled about the color, but to her its the most beautiful jersey she's ever seen........... So, she goes from having no ibex 8 hours ago, to now being the proud owner of 2 woolie bottoms, one hooded shak, and 1 loppett jersey. OH DEAR WHAT HAVE I DONE? I CAN'T AFFORD THIS! SHE CAN'T AFFORD THIS!!! At least she already has a job lined up for after graduation, and maybe this way she'll stop getting sick in Boston. It never occured to me that she was simply freezing.

So, the next question is do I show her the medium tau and prana pants? I didn't dare, but maybe she actually NEEDS them. I know they'll fit her........... But is she ready for arc'tyrex yet, I don't know.................Maybe Ibex is enough for one day.