It was a really good feeling! Now I need to keep it up...Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie_Ama
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It was a really good feeling! Now I need to keep it up...Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie_Ama
140.6 - I like this downward trend! :)
Lynette
150 with a diagnosis of arthritis on Tuesday. Sigh.
146.0. Slow, but steady.
Still 141. Now that birthdays and sickness are behind me, I'm getting serious again!
Back up a bit, 194. But a couple rides are planned for this weekend. And I must remember not to eat anything with sodium the night before weigh-in day......:p
Back up...152:( I have been sick with a cold that has kicked me in the butt big time. Basically strugled through work all week, came home and slept until 7pm, got ready for bed and went back to sleep. I am feeling better today and Sunday we leave on one of our annual hut trips..lots of backcountry skiing so I hope I can lose some then.
Sounds like alot of folks had a rough week. Hang in there! We're all rootin' for you!
We've had nice weather the past two weekends, so I've been able to get out for bike rides (although it did start snowing on me last Saturday...). Tomorrow looks like cloudy and a high of 40, so I'll try to get out for 30-40 miles around 10am or so. We've been having freezing fog* the past few days (I never knew there was such a thing as freezing fog until I moved to Oregon), so the roads are too slick to ride much before that.
Susan
* From Wikipedia "Freezing fog occurs when liquid fog droplets freeze to surfaces, forming white rime ice. This is very common on mountain tops which are exposed to low clouds. It is equivalent to freezing rain, and essentially the same as the ice that forms inside a freezer which is not of the "frostless" or "frost-free" type. In some areas such as in the State of Oregon, the term "freezing fog" refers to fog where water vapor is super-cooled filling the air with small ice crystals similar to very light snow. It seems to make the fog "tangible", as if one could "grab a handful"."
The ice crystals drop out of the air as the sun is coming up, and coat the streets with a thin, powdery, icy layer. Takes a few hours to melt off, usually.
Susan O, your progress is wonderful! Just a few months ago, in November, I think, you started in the 160s if I remember correctly. You are now at 146--that's fantastic! I enjoy reading about your very steady and disciplined progress. It is possible, you are proof, you are an inspiration! You make it look easy, but I know that it is not. Congratulations!
That freezing fog sounds delightful, beautiful, and somewhat hazardous.
I'm 191 today.
148.4 slow is good :)
Congratulations, Susan!
I'm the same and because I hurt my back two days ago, I'm unable to bike or even walk very well. Hope this doesn't last long. :(
I missed the entry for these two months, but i've been trying to do the same thing as if i would have been posting here. I've lost two pounds since jan 1.
I just wanted to tell everyone congrats to all of your hard work and I'm proud of you! I'll join for the april/march one!!!
JP
Well, back to 120! :D Switched to salads and actually cooking with more veggies.
BUT...I took a crash today. My own stupidity and poor bike handling (ran over my own water bottle, then instinctively grabbed break.:rolleyes:) to I hope I can keep some discipline and that I'm not too messed up to get back on the bike in a couple of days...hmmm, maybe some of that weight is my skin that I left on the road!! :p
Quote:
Originally Posted by tulip
Hi Tulip,
Thanks!! I started on November 5th at 165 pounds. It hasn't been easy, but on the other hand, for the most part, it hasn't been excruciatingly difficult either. I'm a stubborn person, and once I set my mind to something, I can usually make it happen.
When I was 14, I started smoking cigarettes. It wasn't long before I had a pack-a-day habit. My mother allowed me to smoke in the house. She was a smoker, and recognized the hypocrisy of telling her teenage daughter that it wasn't OK to do something that she herself was doing. Plus, she was afraid I'd burn down the house sneaking cigarettes in my bedroom at night, so she preferred I do it out in the open.
Anyway, when I was 20 years old, I'd tired of smoking cigarettes. But habits are hard to break. So, I decided to tell everyone I knew that I was quitting smoking. Friends, family, classmates....everyone. Then, I set my mind to doing it. My stubborness, plus the fact that I didn't want to "fail" in front of my friends and family and all these people who knew what I was trying to accomplish, kept me on track. This Thanksgiving will mark 20 years without another cigarette.
I'm basically taking the same approach with my weight loss. I set my mind to it. I made a plan:
First, I joined WieghtWatchers online, and I record all my food intake diligently. I don't cheat on recording what I eat, because I'd only be cheating myself. That doesn't mean I always eat perfectly - believe me, I don't. But I record everything, regardless. I've become a label-reader. I look for lots of fiber, low fat, no added sugar, no high fructose corn syrup.... I try to make 95% of my meals at home, using natural ingredients & minimally processed foods. I like to cook, so this is not a burden.
Then, I announced my intentions to my friends, co-workers, family. This helps me in several ways. First, like with my smoking habit, I don't want to be a failure in the eyes of people I love and respect. Keeps me accountable to someone other than myself. Second, the people I interract with day-to-day in person now understand why I say "no" to certain things. "No thank you, I wouldn't like a piece of cake." "No thank you, a 2nd serving wouldn't be a good idea. " "Yes, I'd love to go out to dinner with you - let's try Sweet Tomatoes tonight instead of chinese." They help keep my on track, and cheer me on.
Then, I set some goals. The Shamrock Run 5K on St. Patrick's Day, The Canby Gator Grinder Sprint Tri in May, the Pacific Crest Olympic Duathlon in June, two long-distance weeklong bicycling vacations in July & August, an Olympic triathlon in September. I know I'm capable - I've done all these things before in my leaner/fitter years. I don't want to just "survive" these events. I want to have a rip-roaring good time doing them! :D
So, I made a training plan. Running 3 mornings a week. Cycling on the weekends (have to try to fit some spin classes into my evenings, but so far that's been hard with my work schedule). Swim lessons (i'm a lousy swimmer). All of this activity is paying off. I'm not just losing weight - I'm becoming much more fit. I'm building muscle. I'm keeping my metabolism high (I think diet-only plans fail because our bodies' metabolisms respond to less food by slowing down. Exercise is key to keeping metabolism high). And I FEEL so much better.
I've spent the past few years not being very good to myself, physically or mentally. I decided to change that and treat myself better. Like I said, it hasn't been easy, but it hasn't been excruciating either. I set my mind to it, knowing that the payoff is better health and a stronger/leaner me.
Thanks again for all the encouragement, ladies! The supportiveness of this group is amazing, and has been so helpful to me.
Susan
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjay
Oh kjay, I'm so sorry to hear you're injured! Take good care of yourself - best to rest up for a few days, rather than try to get out there before your body is ready. On the bright side - would this be a good excuse to pamper yourself with a massage? Might work wonders on both your back and your spirits. :)
Susan
Susan, its been so exciting hearing about your weight loss. Its been great watching your progress here (and everyones!). Why don't you post some pictures. You must be so proud of yourself. I am just curious, are you a Medium now, or even fitting into some Smalls?
One reason I am curious, is that I did notice a big difference in my body shape when I lost weight on WW vs a high protein/low carb diet. In my case, it may be because I have impaired glucose tolerance so did much better on low carb, but on the high protein/low carb diet I noticed that I preserved more lean body mass as I lost than I did on WW, so now I am the same clothing size (small, 4-6) at 140 lb as I was at 120 lb years ago on weight watchers (correcting for size inflation, etc.). Both times I started at ~170, which I noticed is also near your starting weight.
Trisk,
I don't have any recent pictures of myself. I'm planning to take one the day of the Shamrock Run, to use as a comparison to the "before" weight. I'll post the before and after then. :) It's definitely a noticeable change, even now. Many people that I haven't seen in a while (who didn't know I was trying to shed weight) have told me I look thinner. Yay!
Sizing is a very interesting thing. As far as cycling clothing goes - At 5'4" and 165 pounds, I was in an XL in just about everything. I can still wear all the jerseys, though they are noticeably roomier, especially in the waist/hip. I'm busty (I've dropped a cup size, from DD to D) so I still have a 38-39 inch bust circumference. A goodly number of my XL jerseys still don't look overly large in the bust. I should say, though, that I am not a super-form-fitting-jersey kind of girl. I prefer a semi-fit cut, so the fact that my XLs have gotten roomy is OK with me. But, undoubtedly, by the summer most of them should be simply too big (I'm hoping to be 130 by summer).
In shorts - just about all my shorts were XL, and I can wear L now. I could probably even wear some mediums, though I haven't actually tried any Ms on yet. I haven't given a whole lot of thought to which new pieces I want to acquire for the coming season, so I've not spent much time in the bathroom trying on bottoms. I *have* tried on a bunch of the new spring jerseys, though. I'm wavering between M & L in most of them. The Ls are roomy at the waist but are mostly good in the bust. I can wear some Ms if the fabrics have more give. But I'm still more comfortable in the Ls.
At 130, I'll probably be a solid medium in most things (I'm hoping to get my bust measurement down to a 34C. That would be heaven.) When I was 25, I was 133 pounds and wore M in pretty much all my cycling clothing. On the other hand, that was 15 years ago. With vanity sizing being as crazy as it is, who knows!
I have very little clothing labeled 6-8-10 etc so I probably can't really answer your sizing question. I buy my jeans from Chico's and they use a different scale (I am now a 1.5). Almost everything else I own is labeled s-m-l etc. I have no idea where I'll end up in "dress" sizes, though at 133 I was a size 8. But that was 15 years ago - with the shift in sizing, I'll likely be a 6 now.
It's interesting to me that you feel that the different weight loss methods had different effects on your body composition. Did you have the same exercise regimen each time? I wonder if a change in the type or frequency of exercise you did during your weight loss is responsible for some of that.
As for me, I've not been counting my fat/carb/protein ratios during my time on WW. I think I have a pretty good balance. Because carb-rich foods are calorie dense, I tend to eat them only in moderation. I haven't had pasta in 2months or so and only rarely have any potato. I eat wild rice 1-2 a week. Breakfast is usually carb-based (oatmeal, 10-grain cereal, muesli), but most of the rest of my meals are more reliant on veggies and lean proteins.
Susan
When I was younger I ballooned up to 165 following my pregnancies. I am 5 ft 4.5" tall. I lost 50 lb on weight watchers, but felt really hungry all the time, and got down to clothes that were labeled small then and still fit me now (we can't compare the numbered clothes I know). When I look back at records of my body fat percent though, what I noticed was especially as those last 20 lb came off, it was mostly muscle. At 115 lb my bodyfat percent was 22, so that means my LBM was only 90lb. My exercise at the time was marathon training, and when that ended even though I continued running the weight slowly but surely crept back on. I also found the WW diet tough, felt like I was constantly fighting hunger and my body.
Fast-forward to a couple years ago when I discovered I had impaired glucose tolerance and had to eat a low carb high protein diet. At that point I was an avid cyclist, and at 175 fairly muscular. I was a solid L in most things, an occasional M. Sized items were a 10-12, but again with vanity sizing hard to interpret. While I am not a body builder, I visited boards where women discussed bodybuilding. In body building lingo, I viewed my weight gain as an 'intentional bulk' that is when you gain fat you also gain muscle to carry it around with. So when body builders want to gain muscle and lose fat, first they gain weight (like I did but on purpose), and then by dieting down on a high protein diet, try to selectively remove the fat. As long as you are eating enough protein, you shouldn't need to catabolize your body protein. This made sense to me as a biochemist, and since I had to eat a high protein low carb diet due to my insulin problem, I wondered if it would work that way. To my surprise. I got to that magic body fat percent of 22%, but this time at 140 lb instead of 120. That means now at 140 lb I have a LBM of 110 and can wear many of the same size S clothing items I purchased when I was 120 lb (so I am comparing the same garments, not a number that has varied over time)! I think that is why even though 140 is still on the high end of normal for a person of my height, I can now wear mostly smalls, with the occasional XS on the bottom, and am a 6 on top and 4 on the bottom (which even with vanity sizing seems small to me!). What was also different about it for me this time, is the weight loss felt very natural. I didn't feel like I was dieting as in feeling hungry or deprived. As long as I ate to normalize my blood sugars, I felt like my body weight was normalizing too. I was eating more calories than when I had gained my weight (although that is due to my insulin problem) but the weight just fell off me. The other thing that is different is how easy its been to maintain. While eating less doesn't get me below that magic 22 percent body fat (I've always been that way as a minimum) if I just listen to my body and feed it what it asks, and don't eat foods that ever let my blood sugar go higher than 120 (i.e. I eat mostly lean proteins and non-starchy veggies, but am not afraid of fat) my weight has been really stable for almost 2 years now. You did make a lot of money on me though, as I replaced stuff when I was a M, thinking I'd never be a S, and then had to buy everything all over again in S (although if you remember you let me return the still tagged unworn M apparel)!
I throw this out, cuz I think one thing I learned is how important it was for me to keep my protein high enough (~110g per day) to preserve lean body mass while slimming down. Even without weight lifting, it let me selectively lose fat, and be leaner at a higher body weight than I was when I lost weight on a more balanced diet. I don't know how much of this are my issues with carbs, but I also think that many women that struggle with their weight, even if they don't meet the medical definition of impaired glucose tolerance, may be more carb sensitivie than their leaner counterparts. But clearly you are doing well on a balanced WW plan, but I just wanted to throw out that as you continue to lose, be sure to eat enough protein to protect your LBM!
Oops, I forgot to post for Friday.. I am stuck at 152. Don't know what my deal is right now but I think I have been taking in too many carbs due to my increased running mileage. This week I'm going to really work on cutting that down.
This made me think to add that if you are going to exercise on a low carb diet, be sure to still drink a protein rich drink with electrolytes on the bike.
That works out to about 440 calories per day. Do you have any idea what this is as a % of your total daily caloric intake?Quote:
Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl
Susan
When I lost my weight (20 lbs) a few years ago, in addition to cutting out my 1000 calorie breakfast at Starbucks, I also increased my protein significantly. I had been almost a vegetarian since my then-husband was a vegetarian. When we split up, I started eating fish, chicken, and meat again. I had more energy and lost the weight in a few months, without trying. I didn't do any math or anything, and there were alot of factors that contributed to the weight loss (stress over the split, no more starbucks, more protein, more fresh fruit). I actually cut my exercise because when I moved, I ended up much closer to my office and lost my 28-mile RT bike commute (not that I recommend cutting exercise, that was just my situation).
Just thought I'd throw that out as an anecdote.
147. DH did say yesterday I looked like I was getting lean in my bike clothes. I will take a slight weight gain, I feel damn good about my appearance.
This is the typical breakdown of my food while dieting (and even during maintenance, I basically reached a percent body fat for which my body doesn't like to go below).
~1400 calories per day
110 g protein x 4= 440 cal
30 g CHO x 4= 120 cal
93 g fat x 9 = 837 cal
But Susan, don't think of the 110 g as a percentage of your total calories, the idea was to try to eat ~1 g of protein per lb of LBM. You can calculate your LBM from your body fat percentage. Subtract your body fat percentage from 100, and multiple that times your body weight to get your LBM.
It may sound like a lot of fat, but I do use mostly monounsaturated fats, i.e. olive oil, but I do use full fat milk products like yogurt as they have less lactose, again due to my impaired glucose tolerance. Also, my triglycerides are very low, and all my blood lipids went down eating this way. Fat is only bad for you when combined with carbohydrates (gary taube's good calories bad calories is a great read).
On a day I do a long club ride, I would eat more in the form of protein shakes (Jay Robb Protein Powder, sweetened w stevia so no carbs, but protein and electrolytes). But if you don't have impaired glucose tolerance like me you might want to try a drink that is a blend of protein and carbs and electrolytes. My husband likes Cytomax I think its called.
I don't mean to push my low carb lifestyle on you guys. I have good medical reasons for needing to eat this way. But, I do think that for even a person with a normal metabolism, that keeping protein up while dieting is really important for selectively losing fat over muscle, which after all is the real goal. What bothered me about weight watchers, is they paid more attention to scale weight than body fat percentage. I did become a lifetime member, and while the diet did work for me when I was younger, I found maintenance tough if I wasn't marathon training too, and it didn't work anymore as my impaired glucose tolerance got worse. Now, while exercise is great, its not essential for maintenance. I just got back from a long trip to europe where all I did for exercise was walk, and even found I lost a few pounds.
My weight on Sat was 170.3 - so a slight gain. Not bad considering that I haven't been recording my intake at all (because I'm rebelling).
I'm working out some mental issues while I'm also working on increasing my activity. Ultimately, I'm changing the way I'm going about this as WW doesn't seem to be doing it for me. It's time to use what I know and lose weight the way I know it works for me.
Susan and Trisk - Your conversation of late is very interesting to me. Trisk - I know we've talked about this before. I am also 5'4", but I'm built very differently from both of you. At 170 lbs, I still wear smalls and mediums on top (not much chest here!) and a size 12 (vanity) jean. My bike shorts are still mediums, but I have relatively narrow hips and carry most of my weight in my legs. When I'm about 15 lbs lighter - I'm wearing smalls, so it's relative.
Anyway, I 100% agree with the protien concept that Trisk mentions. When I was at my thinnest (adult weight - about 4 years ago), I was 138 and wearing all 4's. I had a 19% BF. I was lifting HEAVY weights and using running and step aerobics as my primary cardio. This was right before I started biking - it's been all GAIN since then! Anyway, I was also eating a high protien diet. But, I was not low carb - for me, my carb ratio was more moderate and predominantly veggie/fruit related (with 1 whole grain serving per day). Overall, I was aiming for a 40% protien, 40% carb and 20% fat ratio at every meal, or at the very least, for my day totals. The weight just FELL off me. It's this ratio that I am going back to - I just have a hard time with my current lifestyle because we eat very little meat now. Additionally, I will not buy the large packs of 'industrial' chicken breasts that was a big staple of my diet back then. I will figure something out, though.
My point is that I totally agree that sufficient protien in your diet while losing weight defintely helps your body preserve the muscle and lose the fat. How else could I have been a 19% BF at 138 lbs?! I had a beautiful 6-pack and well defined arms and legs, then, too. 1 gram per lb of body weight is a good estimate. I like using my calories and figuring out 40% so that I ensure that I'm also getting the carbs I need for my cardio and the good fats my body needs for repair efforts.
Anyway, that's my 0.02...
I agree with everything you have said Catherine. I think dropping carbs really low is only necessary for those with impaired glucose tolerance. However I think having adequate protein, and more fibrous sources of carbs is good for all.
I just hope what I posted is helpful for those of you that are even borderline carb intolerant. I have tested lots of people with my glucose meter, and see a real range, even amongst people who still test in the normal range. Catherine, perhaps you are one of those that while normal, would do better to somewhat restrict carbs, not as much as me, but focussing on the higher fiber less processed sources. But, if you are following WW and not losing, perhaps you do have some impaired glucose tolerance.
In terms of protein being boring, no I do not buy bags of frozen chicken breasts. We eat lots of fish (if you are a smart shopper you can try different cheaper varieties and find ones you like that are 'underappreciated'). I also like ground turkey (85% lean is tastiest) which we add seasonings to and make sausages, chili, burgers from. My favorite pre-ride breakfast is a couple of turkey sausages.
154lbs.
I also find the discussion very interesting. When I start cycling (about 150miles per week at least - on a fixie) I was recommended to eat before long rides carbs but they just made me tired, sleepy and left me hungry.
Since being little, I hate taste of sugar, cannot stand chocolate and the only carbs I like are potatoes. Any form of sugar makes me feel really bad. I found that the best breakfast for me is egg, cheese and ham sandwich. It lasts me for a long time and gives me a lot of energy.
Lately I signed up for 30 days of Bikram yoga and half way through I was tired, stiff and totally exhausted. I read this thread and started to count the protein in my diet and realized that I am barely on 70g per day. I upped the protein (mainly Quinoa salads) and I am great again.
My question is - where and how do you get tested for impaired glucose tolerance?
Thanks,
Martina
So, just for giggles I went and calculated all my ratios for yesterday and Thursday (I had a meal out both Friday and Saturday, so skipped those days because they are too hard to estimate with any accuracy.)
Yesterday:
1032 calories. 17g fat, 176g carb, 47.5g protein. (14.6%-67.2%-18.1%)
Thursday:
899 calories. 14.5g fat, 150g carb, 35.5 protein (13.8% fat, 63.7%, 22.5%)
Before anyone goes and beats me up on how few calories I'm eating...
I only get 19 WW points, which works out to around 950 calories. In fact, most days I end up eating more*, either because I'm hungry or because I'm exercising and need more fuel. Yesterday I ran for an hour, but I made surprisingly filling meals and wasn't really hungry until late in the evening. But as I say, normally on a running day I'll get closer to 25-27 points. On Thursday I didn't get any exercise, so I tried to stick to my points budget.
Anyway, I was surprised that my protein % was as low as it was on those 2 days. A few things pop into my mind: Yesterday was a completely vegetarian day for me. I had tempeh & beans and cottage cheese as my main protein sources. Cottage cheese and some feta were my only animal products. On Thursday, the only animal protein I had was 2 oz turkey breast @ lunch. No dairy. The rest of my protein came from black beans and oatmeal.
Tonight I'll probably go back and do a few other days, because I'm not really sure these two days are really representative. As I review them, I realize that both of these days are lower in animal products than is typical for me. For example, I often (most days) have yogurt for a snack. I eat 3-4 eggs per week. I also have animal protein (lean beef, lean pork or, fish) 4-5 nights per week (I was a non-meat eater for 10 years, but went back to it gradually about 6 months ago).
Nonetheless, what this tells me is I need to work on making a conscious effort to incorporate some more protein into my diet daily. I should probably be getting 1.5-2x what I'm getting now.
Susan
*(My last 7 days calories have worked out to roughly 1650, 1000, 1450, 900, 1500, 1400, 1000)
One of the gals in my office teaches classes in nutrition at one of the local colleges. After I did all those calcs, I had a conversation with her about protein, etc. Here's an email she sent me on the subject.
"One thing to consider in increasing protein intake -
Pacific foods makes an "Ultra" soy milk - fortified with extra soy protein, calcium, and vitamin D.
Each serving is an extra 5 grams or so of protein compared to "regular" soymilk.
It tastes/feels a fair bit richer than regular-strength soymilk, too.
I've found it to be a very easy way to increase my calcium intake - important because osteoporosis is rampant in my mom's family.
At 145# and 25% bodyfat (I'd estimate 22-26%) you'd have a LBM of about 110#, and as an active person you'd want to have about 90 grams of protein per day.
Interestingly, the WHO would recommend a lower protein intake - 0.8 kcal per kg of bodyweight, which comes out to be about 55 g/day (i.e. about what you're taking in now). This is the figure that they believe to be barely adequate to maintain a person at rest or light activity, without compromising their immune system.
When you're in caloric deficit, you are going to burn protein as fuel. Any ship in a storm! Your body is EXTREMELY smart about protein, since it's the most expensive stuff to make. The metabolic pathways that make protein try to not compete with the pathways that break it down - in other words, if you're breaking down protein as fuel, your body will eventually figure out that it's pretty senseless to be building so much body protein, so the protein-building pathways will shrink to just cover your minimum needs for digestive enzymes, blood, immune proteins, etc. If you provide more protein in your diet, you're doing two things: First, you're limiting the amount of body protein that's going to be broken down - breaking down protein for fuel is a SLOW process relative to fat or carbs, and if there's a dietary source it will be used first. Second, abundant protein entering your system will make more protein synthesis happen by a phenomenon known as "mass action" - if you swamp the available protein-building enzymes with proteins, more protein gets synthesized.
Going too far overboard with protein intake will not help, but WILL stress your kidneys. And going to too high of a protein intake on a restricted calorie diet means that it's hard to get everything you need.
On a 1300-kcal diet, you'd be looking at 25-30% protein as a good target. Allowing 20% fat, that means your carbs would be 50-55% of your intake. 160 g/d of carbs is going to be barely sufficient when you're working out, and may not be enough to insure topped-off glycogen stores - in other words, in the last week or so before the Shamrock, you may perform better if you bring your energy intake up a bit - more like a maintenance, rather than weight-loss, diet. "
Obviously, I have some work to do to more appropriately balance my diet.
As always, thanks for the fantastic conversation, ladies!
Susan
Trisk - I do think I'm very carb sensitive. When I have too many, I don't lose. And more importantly, the more I have, the more I crave, which is how I let my weight get out of control. This applies mainly to starchy carbs, of course. I have never over eaten broccoli or spinach! :p
My issue isn't that WW doesn't work when I follow it, it's just that I am not even slightly motivated to stick to it. I hate the 'points' thing - I always have and I don't know why I thought this time might be different. I like REAL numbers that I can sink my teeth into and that mean something to me in the long run. WW has a great website, great tools, and a lot going for it...it just doesn't do it for me. Go figure. I've always been a numbers geek, so I don't know why I thought that simplifying that was going to be motivating for me...quite the opposite, actually. Eh.
Susan - great job at mixing up those daily calorie levels! Way to keep your body guessing!
In response to the query how to measure your glucose tolerance, here is something I put together for another website I frequent.
Also Susan, I do teach biochemistry to medical students, and in particular amino acid metabolism. What I stress is that while there may be standard recommendations for 'normal' folks, when you deal with people that have metabolic disorders, one needs to modify those. Just like you wouldn't recommend a high protein diet for someone with kidney damage, for someone with impaired glucose tolerance its just the ticket. Also, in the range I am talking about, 1 g protein/ lb of LBM, should not stress the kidneys of a person with normal kidney function.
MEASURING GLUCOSE TOLERANCE: Here is a blurb I wrote up before and modified slightly for you guys (some of which was copied from wiki) on how to measure your glucose tolerance. Notice the info. on the home test which is what many of you may want to start with unless you can convince your docs to run one in a lab for you:
This is how an OGTT (oral glucose tolerance test) works in a lab (from wiki):
The patient should have been fasting for the previous 8-14 hours (water is allowed).
Usually the OGTT is scheduled to begin in the morning (0700-0800) as glucose tolerance exhibits a diurnal rhythm with a significant decrease in the afternoon. A zero time (baseline) blood sample is drawn.
The patient is then given a glucose solution to drink. The standard dose since the late 1970s has been 1.75 grams of glucose per kilogram of body weight, to a maximum dose of 75 g. It should be drunk within 5 minutes. Prior to 1975 a dose of 100 g was often used.
Blood is drawn at intervals for measurement of glucose (blood sugar), and sometimes insulin levels. The intervals and number of samples vary according to the purpose of the test. For simple diabetes screening, the most important sample is the 2 hour sample and the 0 and 2 hour samples may be the only ones collected. In research settings, samples may be taken on many different time schedules.
To do an OGTT test at home, it is good to take additional time points, especially to check for reactive hypoglycemia. If you are not sure of your technique, you may even want to take duplicate measurements, especially at the 60 and 120 minute points, and remember to wash your hands before each measurement:
You can order a very good glucose monitor here for only $20 (uses small sample volumes and has excellent accuracy): http://shopcart.shopmash.com/manu/10...5/product.aspx
The test strips are expensive, but if you get your doctor to write a prescription they are cheaper. The meter will come with 10 to get you started. You can also order the strips from the same supplier.
This is the test. Don't eat after you evening meal. Next morning, measure you blood glucose per the instructions with the meter. Then drink 75g of pure glucose (you can use cycling gels, usually they have 25 g of carbs in the form of maltodextrin which is essentially glucose so you would take 3, or how ever many add up to 75g of the brand of your choice, you can rinse them down with water). DO NOT EAT AGAIN UNTIL AFTER THE TEST IS OVER ALTHOUGH YOU CAN DRINK PLAIN WATER. Call t=0 when you first started eating the glucose. Measure the values at the following points: 30 min., 60 min, 120 min, and hourly thereafter until it comes to a value less than 100 (6-8 hours). The 1 hour reading should be less than 200, and the 2 hour reading should be less than 140 if you are 'normal'.
While I have given this test to lots of people, I have seen there is a huge range in the responses. Some folks never go above 120 at the 1 hour point, while others can be anywhere between 120 and 200. While these folks don’t meet the medical definition of impaired glucose tolerance, they definitely have less glucose tolerance than folks that never go over 120, and they often tend to take too long for the glucose load to clear. These folks often benefit greatly from a low carb diet. When you are feeling bad on the bike (if this happens to you after a high carb pre-ride meal), take a measurement as well. Also record how you are feeling.
So, what I (and my doctor) think is even more important for optimum health (not exposing your body to high blood sugar levels which harms your organs) is finding out how you react to diff. foods/combinations of foods, and only eat foods that keep your blood sugar under 120 after 1 hour (after the first bite) and under 100 after 2 hours (after the first bite). Exercise can be used to raise glucose tolerance. So, while you may find that your blood sugar goes high if you eat fruit pre-ride it may be fine post-ride.
Interpretation of OGTT results (from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose_tolerance_test )
Fasting plasma glucose should be below 6.1 mmol/l (110 mg/dl). Fasting levels between 6.1 and 7.0 mmol/l (110 and 126 mg/dl) are borderline ("impaired fasting glycaemia"), and fasting levels repeatedly at or above 7.0 mmol/l (126 mg/dl) are diagnostic of diabetes.
The 2 hour glucose level should be below 7.8 mmol/l (140 mg/dl). Levels between this and 11.1 mmol/l (200 mg/dl) indicate "impaired glucose tolerance." Glucose levels above 11.1 mmol/l (200 mg/dl) at 2 hours confirms a diagnosis of diabetes.
Here is a More detailed way to look at your values From the National Library of Medicine http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...rmal%20Values:
Normal blood values for a 75-gram oral glucose tolerance test used to check for type 2 diabetes:
Fasting: 60 to 100 mg/dL
1 hour: less than 200 mg/dL
2 hours: less than 140 mg/dL. Between 140-200 mg/dL is considered impaired glucose tolerance or pre-diabetes. This group is at increased risk for developing diabetes. Greater than 200 mg/dL is diagnostic of diabetes mellitus
What next?
If you have impaired glucose tolerance, follow the diet in this book, Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. You can also order it from amazon, etc. http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com/ (although I do eat tomatoes, carrots, etc. which he doesn't recommend, depends on how severe your impaired glucose tolerance is). I also supplement with no carb protein shakes and almonds during exercise (Jay Robb Whey Protein which they sell at HEB Central Market, also contain electrolytes: http://www.jayrobb.com/cat_proteinWheyAll.asp), and am careful to eat plenty of protein to fuel activity. The amino acids are deaminated to carbon skeletons which can be burned for energy via the TCA cycle, and also used to do gluconeogenesis, but making glucose at a slower rate than consuming carbs on the bike. I have also trained myself to run on a high ratio of fat to glucose.
General info. on how to eat higher protein lower carb can be found in Protein Power by the Eades, although it is less based on glucose readings and allows fruits that raise my blood sugar too high. Another good book is good calories/bad calories by Gary Taubes. Even if you don't have impaired glucose tolerance, I believe it is a healthier way to eat although you would not be as restrictive as a person with impaired glucose tolerance. My husband doesn't have impaired glucose tolerance, but he eats the same as me although he sometimes supplements w carbs (like fruit, sometimes bread). But on the bike, he prefers a shake that contains carbs and protein to a pure carb one (cytomax, also has electrolytes which is key). I think its important to select a diet based on how it makes you feel. If you feel better by shifting the balance away from carbs and towards protein then you should do it regardless of what the test results show. I also think the carbs in veggies and fruits are then better for you than the carbs in wheat, sugar, rice, and processed foods. Protein is also more satiating so you'll be able to reduce meal frequency more easily, and even restrict calories more easily, if that is desirable. I lost 35 lb eating this way and never felt like I was on a 'diet' or excessively hungry, just like my weight 'normalized' as my blood sugars and hormones 'normalized'. But I don't think about myself as a sick person. While my endo labeled me a diabetic a colleague of mine who is a diabetologist said I am not a diabetic based on my blood sugar levels on my regular diet. Now, if I ate a different diet, my blood sugars would be high and I would be a diabetic. But, as long as I feed myself the foods I can metabolize correctly, my blood sugars are normal.
Having impaired glucose tolerance does not mean that you are insulin resistant. Impaired glucose tolerance can be caused by either insulin resistance, or insufficient insulin secretion. To find out, you need to get your doctor to monitor both insulin and glucose during an OGTT. From the ratio of glucose to insulin, it can be inferred how responsive your body is to insulin.
My problem is that I undersecrete insulin. The first clue was that my fasting insulin levels are below range although my fasting glucose was only marginally, if at all, elevated.. When I eat carbs (except small amounts of non starchy carbs from veggies), they make me sleepy, lethargic, and depress my body temperature. They also make my blood sugar go too high and stay too high for too long.
What does this all have to do with weight loss?
Well, when we eat carbs, we put our bodies in a hormonal state where insulin>glucagon. In simple language, insulin is a fat storage hormone while glucagon is a fat accessing hormone. If someone has really good glucose tolerance, then the time they spend in this state is small, so it shouldn't effect weight loss. But the more impaired your glucose tolerance is, the more time you spend in this state of insulin>glucagon. For me it meant I felt like I was starving on the bike, despite having glucose coarsing through my veins and fat stored all over my body And I was, cuz I still didn't secrete enough insulin to get the glucose into my cells, but as long as I was making a little insulin it kept glucagon down so I also couldn't access stored body fat either (and I was symptomatically hypoglycemic but when I would measure my BS I found out I was hyperglycemic when I felt this way). That is how I gained weight eating 1200 cal a day and biking 100 miles a week!
Like you Catherine this also happened as I cycled more. I think it was cuz I thought I needed to eat more carbs to cycle. It also happened cuz coincidentally our son's GF was eating with us a lot, and vegetarian, so we started to eat more pasta and dishes with a higher proportion of carbs to protein. I finally made the connection when I passed out after eating a plate of pasta and having my body temp plummet to 96! With the help of a very good endocrinologist we sorted it all out.
Another observation I've made is when I was heavier and rode with heavier women, they ate carbs constantly on the bike. As I leaned out and rode with leaner, faster, folks, I noticed they ate a lot less (both in terms of amount and frequency). Many also consume protein/carb combo drinks. I forgot to say that in addition to my protein drinks I eat almonds on long rides.
FYI, those are symptoms of hyperglycemia.Quote:
Originally Posted by martinkap
I am not bashing carbs as a good source of energy for cyclists with normal metabolisms. But I have found that many women, especially athletic ones that think they are doing everything right, yet are still struggling with their weight, often have issues with glucose tolerance.
Sorry for the delay folks, I was out of town. My new fridge comes tomorrow and I can't wait to get back to eating at least semi-normally, which I've not been able to do as long as the fridge was luke warm at best. UGH.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...pm8CAodYUC3EPw
Triske, hyperglycemia after eating sugars or carbs could suggest impaired glucose tolerance. Or am I completely confused?Quote:
Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl
Martina
P.S. I find your posts extremely educational and helpful. It makes huge sense to me. Thank you for taking the time and writing it up.
ABSOLUTELY! In fact, in addition to taking the home OGTT, you can then test how you respond to different combinations of food and exercise. The rule of thumb I have is to not eat any meal that lets my blood sugar go higher than 120 at t=60 min and higher than 100 at t=120 min.Quote:
Originally Posted by martinkap
In the end for me it meant giving up everything but non-starchy veggies most of the time. But for some of you, it might just be shifting the balance, that is instead of eating a pure carb breakfast, choosing a slower acting carb and then combining it with protein and fat which would further delay the rate at which it turns to glucose in your body. This is where a blood sugar meter can really be your friend. Remember your glucose tolerance always improves in the 1-2 hour window after exercise too, so this is when I get to eat strawberries!
Much of this is missed by docs who won't give you an OGTT if you have a normal fasting blood sugar. But despite my low insulin levels, I also have unusually good insulin sensitivity, so I can maintain glucose homeostasis when not challenged with carbs. So, for me the problem was only picked up following a glucose challenge. Then I had a colleague willing to do a research study on me who took frequent measurements of both my glucose and insulin in a research lab setting to quantify both the kinetics of my insulin response as well as my insulin sensitivity. I think he did it cuz he didn't believe I had the problem I had for the reasons I had it. He assumed I would be insulin resistance like most adult onset diabetics, but his data let us firmly establish what is going on which was already indicated in the less rigourous clinical lab tests.
I worried I gave you guys too much info., so I am glad it helped. It only took me 50 years to figure out!
I ran my ratios on today's meals. Here's what I came up with.
1065 calories. 14.5g fat, 164g carb, 80.5g protein. (11.8%, 59.1%, 29%)
This amount of protein seems more typical for me, based on my normal diet.
Susan
Forgot to report in! Actually forgot to weigh in! So this afternoon (which is MY morning :rolleyes:) I was 171.6. Sorry to be so late!
I forgot to send in my update. 128.8. grrrrr. I was insatiably hungry last week which probably accounts for that. But the last two days I'm finding most foods totally unappetizing. No morning sickness, just aversions to foods.