Precisely. :cool:
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Precisely. :cool:
+1
And now folks, move on, after 45 posts, there's nothing more to see here....
http://home.arcor.de/m-g-b/Bilder/london/bobby.jpg
That's your interpretation. I wouldn't think it strange at all if a private "personal" party selling a bike paid to have it professionally packaged to ensure it would survive the trip via UPS or FedEx. Just seems prudent and not "commercial" to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickchick
Take a look at ebay, for example. It's common sense to pay someone to pack up an expensive item professionally.
I find this whole thread rather strange. And I agree with tantrumbean that it's very weird the way people are jumping on the "follow the rules" bandwagon. Americans (and I am one) are just plain weird about "rules."
If you had a guest in your home and you had asked them to stop swearing in front of your children and they didn't, what would you do?
This forum is not ours. It belongs to TE. We are guests in their "home" and as such we need to abide by their rules.
Veronica
And if prior to holding a private conversation, they publicly berated you for asking you not to swear in front of their children, what would you do?
My teacher father always swore that he ran a democratic classroom with full freedom of choice. You could do what he said or get out. I'm an American and not weird about "rules" when in someone else's business, home, classroom, etc. It's simple courtesy and respect to obide by them.
There's an additional consideration:Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica
- The Admins have a life! Let's not impose an unnecessary burden on them by pushing the envelope.
This group generally does a good job of self-policing the debates...and frankly I'm concerned that Susan felt in a position to have to actually defend her actions in the debate. JMHO
That, I will agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by ilima
Actually I will go as far to say that I find this thread disturbing and downright disgusting.
Well, that's where you lost me.Quote:
And I agree with tantrumbean that it's very weird the way people are jumping on the "follow the rules" bandwagon. Americans (and I am one) are just plain weird about "rules."
It's not rules, it's courtesy.
It's consideration.
It's respect.
You think that's weird?
Well, then maybe you would be happier at another forum.
I think you're all weird that we should have 4 pages of people going back on this. And I don't think this thread should degenerate to suggesting other people need to find another forum as well.
Yes, this forum is a courtesy provided by team estrogen that I'm quite happy to have found and be on - but let's not forget that this forum also brings team estrogen quite a lot in terms of customers and advertising. Many women who would not necessarily have found team estrogen for buying clothing or whatever (because... the prices are often the same as the local bike shop or rei... the selection is definitely better), have found this forum through searching on the internet looking for comfortable saddle reviews or something like that... have found the forum to be a great resource, and have thus chose to support team estrogen's store. And I think it's a great strategy by the owners of team estrogen - they provide a service to the community and build a base of customers simultaneously.
As for biking selling, I really am not bothered too much either way. I like for old bikes to get recycled to new owners that would be happy to love them. I bought a frame off here that I'm quite happy with. It does say in the rules no commercial postings - but I know I've posted a couple of times items that were going to end up on ebay if I don't sell them here and stated it. Does that make me a commercial seller? I don't buy anything specifically to resell on here or ebay, but I do try to clear out stuff that I'm not using and I'm usually happy to break even or lose a little bit. If my sister wants to sell her old bike rack - can I post it on here, or should I have her make a new account, make at least 10 posts so you guys know who she is and then post it to sell?
You're losing sight of what started all this in the first place. You're talking about selling a few of your own things here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catriona
If I understand it correctly, the OP has been selling items on behalf of other people, many things, and thus acting as a dealer.
Like you pointed out, it says in the forum rules no commercial postings. According to her own posts, a couple of pages back :) ,Susan did discuss the matter with the OP (contrary to the OP's assertions).
But the OP didn't like Susan's decision. Apparently the OP didn't think the forum policy should apply to her, so she went to the forum to try to paint Susan as unfair and unresponsive. Those of us who know Susan (even only slightly, like myself), know that she is neither.
Some of us, myself included, have been up in arms about this it is because we admire and respect Susan and deeply appreciate what she is doing for the women's cycling community by hosting this forum. Jeff and Susan set up some forum rules and policies with the assumption that posters would act like grownups and accept those policies as a condition of being here. The only condition of being here.
Speaking only for myself, I'm dismayed at how easily some people here are willing to disregard and second-guess and re-interpret the requests of our hosts. Jeff and Susan deserve better.
You know, I'm developing a headache from beating my head against a wall here.
Many of us have posted items for sale, that's what the For Sale/Wanted forum is for. But, when a bike shop manager posts 9 different bikes for sale, the alarms go off, the complaints pour in. After receiving a number of said complaints, I deleted her posts. It's done, it's over, let's move on.
As my son would say: Dead horse smoothie...
Who exactly do you think you are to tell me to go to another forum?Quote:
Originally Posted by jobob
Yes, I realize Susan/te provides this forum and others volunteer to be moderators. For that I am grateful.
But I was also under the impression this was a community. A community with fluid boundaries of decorum.
You are exactly the type of "rules" person I find baffling. The type that doesn't realize that rules are never meant to apply to 100% of situations. Rules are meant to apply to the vast majority of situations, but not all. And that's the problem.
Rules folks like yourself think they are black and white "well it says right here" without even trying to logically think about said rule. Sometimes rules need interpretation (hello Supreme Court for an example!).
I like the genial demeanor of this forum. But I have found this thread strange in many ways.
I have always been very happy with the customer service from te and will continue to order from here (although it's been quite a few months). Perhaps I will stick to RBR, though.
But isn't that the point? It wasn't "genial" of the OP to attack her host. I kinda like the rule that says you don't attack your host unless they are about to commit bodily harm.Quote:
Originally Posted by ilima
I don't know any other specifics about the OP's behavior except what's been posted, but I did witness the lack of courtesy by the OP - and I'm really surprised at the people who seem to think this is acceptable.
I think part of the problem is that there are now (at least) two different issues on this thread that have got mixed up:
One: The commercial selling aspect. This is clearly not allowed and if it has been established for sure that that is what the OP is doing, then obviously TE is totally within their rights to remove those posts. That's clearly covered in the forum guidelines, makes perfect sense and therefore should not really require too much discussion (apart from the fact that the OP's idea to what constitutes a commercial post does not necessarily match admins). I have not seen the posts, but I can see that there might potentially be a grey area.
Point 2 is the discussion if this should have been discussed publicly on the forum or not. Now that both admin and the op have stated what happened, it's pretty clear that there are two different versions of the story. I don't know which one is the right one, but both parties clearly feel they have done what they should have done to sort it out. Which leaves the discussion about should forum members be allowed to take things public when they feel (note the word: "feel") that they have not had the response they feel the issue warrants from admin.
Afaic that is a completely different point and has not necessary anything to do with the OP at all, it's a general issue that could probly apply to lots of situations.
I thinks it's throwing both those issues in the same pot that's caused this discussion to get quite heated and possibly caused members to misunderstand each others responses.
Maybe it would be worth adding a "Feedback" or "TE office" subforum, most forums I know have these, and it might be a good place to post anything from "Could the background colour be changed, I'm struggling to see it", "Anybody else having problems with the forum running slow?" to "Why was I not allowed to sell my puppy on here" and it would possible make some of the decisions taken in the background more transparent and a more public conversation with admin would allow everybody to get their views across.
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by snapdragen
I think this whole thread should be deleted. It's really a matter between the forum owners and the OP and doesn't need to be endlessly dissected and debated by the rest of us.