Deputy kills 2, 1 in critical cond.

For those of you in the area there is a memorial ride for Matt and Kristy on Sat. afternoon details in below link.

http://rememberingmatt.blogspot.com/

I would feel more optimistic about a fair investigation if deputy Council were to speak to CHP investigators but his lawyer has advised him not to. He left the scene with another deputy (stated because he was distraught and he was rambling) before they got there and he still has not spoken to them. I'm wondering if that's how things usually proceed?

I agree with Invsblwmn "... anytime someone gets hurt consequences need to be a little heavier than guilt and a traffic ticket." For the sake of Matt and Kristy's families and friends I hope it's resolved soon.

Whether or not the victim is in another vehicle, a bike or a pedestrian doesn't make any legal difference. It often makes a difference in the amount of sympathy the victim draws from the prosecutor (who decides what charges to file), and the judge and/or jury (who decide guilt or innocence and sentence).

What is wrong with the law, in every state I'm aware of, is the mens rea (mental element for those one or two non-lawyers in this thread ;)) required for vehicular homicide. Any other traffic offense is strict liability. That means if you're speeding, it doesn't matter if your speedo was broken and you didn't know it. If you're drunk, it doesn't matter whether or not you'd tested your BAC or whether you had any idea that one drink might interact with some legal meds you were on. If you run a red light, it doesn't matter whether you saw it or not.

Kill somebody and all that goes out the window. All of a sudden the state has another element to prove: what was in your head, and what might have been in the head of a hypothetical "reasonable person." The more serious the consequences, the MORE the state has to prove. THAT's what's wrong with the law.

Amen.

It's not easy to solve, though, because so many people simply can't imagine depriving somebody of the privilege of driving. Our culture is so dependent on it. If we can create a culture where you *can* exist with dignity without a car (I'm fortunate enough to be able to arrange my life so I can, but for others it *would* be, basically, impossible to perform the functions life demands without one), then we could hold people more responsible for being able to wield one safely.

A line from the old Police song "Fragile" is playing in my head as I read this thread about this tragedy...

"How fragile we are, how fragile we are."

I was thinking today when the sun was shining on the dirt on my windshield, how difficult it was to see..that I might have difficulty seeing anyone..you know when the sun is at that certain angle and you're squinting even though you have your sunglasses and the visor is down...like Veronica said we are all guilty of putting ourselves and others in dangerous situations...

lives forever altered in a blink of an eye...

Here is a link to Kristy's memorial blog. I posted Matt's link earlier.

http://www.rememberingkristygough.blogspot.com/


I like how it says "Let us remember Kristy not as a victim, but as the young woman who lived an outstanding life."

It also states that "In lieu of flowers, Kristy's family suggests that donations be made in Kristy's name to her favorite charity organization, PETA."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geonz

Amen.

It's not easy to solve, though, because so many people simply can't imagine depriving somebody of the privilege of driving. Our culture is so dependent on it. If we can create a culture where you *can* exist with dignity without a car (I'm fortunate enough to be able to arrange my life so I can, but for others it *would* be, basically, impossible to perform the functions life demands without one), then we could hold people more responsible for being able to wield one safely.

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Realizing rural areas and so on, this is not always possible but .... I was at a presentation with an advocate for the disabled and brought up something that was going on with our local transit agency. And Sharon (the advocate) said ":eek: how'd you know about that?"
"I'm a cyclist"
"huh?"
"it's the same issue"
"ooooooh" :)

None of us are promised one more day of health. Whether age, accident, medical condition or even just a one time thing (I'm too tired, drunk ... I should not drive) we all can loose the ability to drive.

So these drivers with a DUI and then they hit or kill someone ... there are plenty of transit options out there.

here is another write up on this tragic accident

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../BAEVVIOS9.DTL

"The sheriff's deputy who drove his patrol car head-on into 3 California cyclists, killing 2, will be charged with misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter, according to the San Jose Mercury News. This could result in a maximum sentence of 2 years in prison for the 27-year-old deputy, James Council. He apparently fell asleep at the wheel before hitting the riders. Killed were well-known NorCal racers Kristy Gough, 30, and Matt Peterson, 29. The third rider, 20-year-old Christopher Knapp of Germany, did not suffer life-threatening injuries. A report in cyclingnews.com says that Council had been convicted of street racing in Los Angeles when he was 20 and plea-bargained to have DUI charges dismissed. The Associated Press has reported that there was no evidence of alcohol being involved in the crash that killed the cyclists. The Cupertino City Council has approved a memorial plaque where the accident occurred, which is on one of the area's popular training roads."

Bump:

http://www.mercurynews.com/localnews...465?source=rss

How very unfortunate for everyone involved!

I am glad they took the deputy from behind the wheel.

did they really though.... they took away his gun and his patrol car, but from what the article says, he probably still has his private license.... unless they expect to make him serve summonses by taking the bus.... Perhaps they should have demoted him and made him serve as a bicycle patrol officer.... (and never get his drivers license back! I totally believe that if you kill/maim negligently with a car you should lose the right to drive forever)

He still has a job with a $55,600 salary.
That's not punishment to me.

That is just wrong.

I like the idea of making him work on a bicycle. He can be out there thinking about someone falling asleep and killing him. When you are sleepy and behind the wheel of a car, you darn sure know it and can take the opportunity to stop before you fall completely asleep... to keep driving in that condition is criminal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eden

did they really though.... they took away his gun and his patrol car, but from what the article says, he probably still has his private license.... unless they expect to make him serve summonses by taking the bus.... Perhaps they should have demoted him and made him serve as a bicycle patrol officer.... (and never get his drivers license back! I totally believe that if you kill/maim negligently with a car you should lose the right to drive forever)

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Uh, being a bike officer is NOT a demotion. In fact, it is a PROMOTION.

In the state of Texas, if the cop was found guilty or convicted of manslaughter (which is what this would fall under in THIS state if he recklessly or negligently caused the death of those cyclists) he would LEGALLY no longer be a cop. I am NOT saying that that the death of ANYONE by ANYONE else is not tragic, it is. I am not saying that he was not at fault, I don't know that. But unless a judge and jury found him guilty of it (and, trust me, cops are not immune to both criminal and civil litigation JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE) he has the right to his freedom just like everyone else. Now, if it were MY department, I doubt he would still be employed for whatever policy violation he committed (we can break traffic laws when responding to calls, even if we are NOT running code with lights and sirens, as there are some times that that is necessary) but I didn't read anywhere that he was responding to a call. If he was typing on his computer, operating a cell phone, or just driving like crap in general, he would have been violating policy in my department and be subject to being fired for it regardless of the outcome of criminal and or civil court.

I cycle in the city, I drive in the city, and I am a cop in the city. There are risks associated with all three. Terrible, terrible accidents happen. Cops are human, they make driving errors just as doctors, lawyers and indian chiefs do. We DO talk on our cell phones, consult our computers for dispatch information and drop the dang radio handset and have to fish for it. We swat at bees. And I dare say that every single one of us are aware of the risks we take to ourselves and those we are trying to protect just in the performance of our jobs.

It isn't my job, nor do I have the desire, to defend this particular cop in this particular incident, hopefully if he was negligent, he will suffer the consequences (and there is a difference, legally, between KNOWINGLY, RECKLESSLY, and NEGLIGENTLY) professionally, and, if necessary, criminally. It can't bring back the lives he took, and that is a shame for all involved. Some corrupt departments may protect their own to such an extent, I guess, but with liability being what it is today, I can't imagine that being the case.

MY heart goes out to the cyclists, the families, and the cop who hit them (unless he KNOWINGLY hit them, which I didn't see any evidence of). There before the grace of God go I. And, as you guys are all human here, I hope you never turn around to see why your kid is crying and take your eyes off the road for a minute and hit someone. I hope you never talk on your cell phone, change the CD, swat at a fly, eat a cheeseburger, or spill a cold drink on your lap and mow over someone walking on the shoulder in your moment of inattention. Those things happen, if it happened to me I would NEVER be the same, regardless of whether I were in my personal car or in my patrol vehicle, trying to hurry to help someone in the night. You wouldn't have to take my gun and badge away to make that happen.