Just another reason not to visit the US...
Found this today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11834185
I'd love to fly El Al, just for the security experience!
Printable View
Just another reason not to visit the US...
Found this today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11834185
I'd love to fly El Al, just for the security experience!
There is the official shirt :rolleyes: :pQuote:
Originally Posted by colby
http://www.chokeshirtco.com/product/tsa-uni
BingoQuote:
Originally Posted by bmccasland
We live in an age of paranoia...
Some people are paranoid about suicide bombers, and some people are paranoid about the government -- here's a comment from the above-referenced comment thread on Fox News' website:
The airport was the pilot project. Then come the trains, the subways, government buildings, public buildings, the library, the schools .... Each time it is an x-ray scan. Every individual will have many scans every day. The dose adds up. As a consequence, there will be many people who will become unable to have children. They will use fertility services, which the government taxes and regulates. The government will eventually insist on gene-designed babies, because the gene pool of the population at large has been too damaged by the scanners ... Brave new world!
I guess we each choose the version of reality that seems to us closest to common sense. It's astonishing how much this differs between us, though.
I really don't have any more problem with getting scanned at the subway than I do at the airport. If I had children, I would have no problem with the requirement to vaccinate them in order to enroll in public school -- and this is very much the same thing to me. Public safety, like public health, requires a critical mass of participation in order to be effective.
Thank you....
I flew from Orlando to San Diego on Wednesday and all the news reports literally had me fighting anxiety attacks. I actually called the airline twice to ask about scanning and pat downs and were there any ways at all to avoid them. I was ready to go buy a used Prius and drive home instead of putting myself and my 12-year-old daughter through the trauma (and yes, to me, it's traumatic, and I'll tear the place down before I let anyone lay hands on my daughter). We've driven cross-country together twice, just the two of us, and it's a fun trip, so that was actually looking like a good alternative, but I didn't have time to shop, really, because our flight was the next day.
I got to the airport three hours earlier than normal because the local news had shown long lines at security and when I called the airline, that's what they suggested. I was even expecting long lines to return the rental car.
When we arrived, there were no lines anywhere. We drove right in to rental car return and were handled right away. We walked in to the ticketing/baggage check building and I was expecting long lines there, too, and at some airline counters there were average-looking lines, but no mobs. At the Southwest counter, there was absolutely no one ahead of us. The lady checking bags was leaning against the computer stand with her arms crossed over her chest. I breezed up to her and asked, "Where's the crowd?" She laughed and said, "You're it."
We checked our four bags and continued around to the first TSA checkpoint and here's where I got nervous -- would I have to stand down some TSA supervisor, explain why I don't want any strangers touching me or my daughter, and that I'm a cancer survivor, too, and don't want to go through the AIT machine -- but there was no line here, either. We walked up to the first checkpoint stand and there was one woman walking through just ahead of us. She joked with the guy about there not being any big crowds and he smiled back and laughed with her, and I said I was just thinking the same thing as he checked my ID against the boarding pass I'd printed out at my mom's house. He waved us through to the next pair of agents who were directing people through to the various scanner machines.
I had to let them know I was traveling with my father's cremated remains. This older man nodded and ushered me to a line with hardly anyone in it and told me to let the agent there know, so I did. I started unpacking my laptop and my daughter was doing the same, putting our shoes and purses in the bins, when the next agent, a woman, came up behind me and I said, "I was told to let you know that I'm traveling with my father's cremated remains."
She said she was sorry for my loss (seemed sincere), then said they had to put a coin under the case for the purposes of the x-ray machine, so she actually helped me get our bags situated in the bins and put a coin under the bag with the remains in it and as we were walking through the metal detector, the guy at the end had taken the bag with the remains in it (they were in a Mason jar, still in the plastic bag from the crematorium -- my stepmom's doing, and totally in my dad's style, and I'd wrapped that in a soft-sided insulated lunchbag) for further swab testing. I told him he was welcome to unpack the whole thing if he needed to, but he declined and gave the bag back to me.
And that was it for security. No AIT machines, no pat downs, nothing that the news had made such a big deal of. We took the tram to the terminal and there were no crowds there, either. We had two full hours to go before our flight, so we had some lunch in the food court and then we walked down and got settled in the wi-fi chairs near our gate. I let the agent there know, too, about the remains, and apparently that gets you a pre-boarding pass, so we were the first ones onto the plane, too. Go figure.
We experienced the same thing in Denver during our 1-hour layover. No crowds, friendly airline personnel.
Absolutely no drama whatsoever. No invasive anything. They were actually all very accommodating and even seemed like they were all in pretty good moods in spite of having to work on the worst travel day of the year.
Why didn't I get THAT on video and post it on YouTube? I wish I'd thought of it.
Roxy
A creative way to cover your assets in the porn tube:
http://www.rockyflatsgear.com/gifts-for-women/
Those are cute, but obviously anyone who goes through the scanner with radiation-blocking garments will have to be groped.
Roxy, I'm really glad you had a good experience this time (and hoping I'll be able to travel one more time before things get really nutty), but I'm pretty sure that right now they're using profiling to select people while the technology is being rolled out, the intent is that eventually everyone will have to be either irradiated or groped. :( I wasn't able to verify that on TSA's website - but I'm 90% sure I've read that in reliable sources -
If Homeland Security was really interested in ending terrorism in the skies, they would adopt the procedures the Israelis use in their airports: enter a booth, scan for explosives and detonate.
That's really not nutty, though, is it? If you were in charge of security, and you had the ability to screen each and every traveler without huge compromises in efficiency, wouldn't you do it? If we could figure out how to screen every package, I'm sure we'd do that too -- we just don't have the resources and infrastructure to make it possible yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by OakLeaf
My sister flew El Al perhaps 15 years ago. She was 17, between her junior and senior years in high school, and going to Israel as part of a church group to participate on a Harvard-sponsored archaeological dig. This was back in the security dark ages when you could still say goodbye to travelers at the gate... But not at El Al. Travelers were checked for ID and tickets at the outer door to the terminal, and friends/family were not allowed in. I remember my parents having a fit... Anyway, my sister reported that everyone was interviewed individually in a private room -- mostly focusing on whether or not anyone else had had access to their bags. I don't remember if there was a pat-down or not -- if so, it didn't leave a strong impression on her -- it was the individual interrogation that really stood out. As far as I know, she wasn't "profiled" or singled out -- everyone, or perhaps all non-Israeli passports, had to go through it. It's sort of an interesting approach -- apparently Richard Reid (the shoe bomber) was almost not permitted on the flight because of his erratic actions. It's possible that behavioral profiling might be an effective tool. For me, it raises quite a few more concerns about "the police state" and the possibility that justice might not be applied evenly than scanners do, though.
The radiation worries me, but not the pat downs. My son has a pacemaker, so he is patted down every time we fly. They always, always, always use a same-sex patter. I've even suggested that I wouldn't mind if a woman did it, and they said no, we had to wait for a man. The same would apply to female travelers--only female agents can pat them down.
The radiation on the other hand... My son has been exposed to way more radiation than I'm comfortable with already, frequently without the little lead apron for his private parts (they're a little lax on that sort of safety measure here). No more of that than absolutely medically necessary, thank you very much.
I worry about transgendered folks going through the new TSA stuff. (I know several, and none have done any airtravel lately.)
The "drag queen tuck" isn't gonna hide from either the backscatter nor the pat-down, and a "packer" is gonna show up wrong on the backscatter. (as would breasts in a binder, I assume.)
How does TSA designate the patter for the transgendered pattee?
ETA: google and ye shall receive: http://www.transequality.org/Issues/travel.html
Thanks for the link Knotted; it's an interesting read.
Children really are vulnerable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chile Pepper
Oh thank goodness! I was worried my lucrative career as a drug mule was about to come to a halt! *smirk*Quote:
Originally Posted by Owlie
Regarding safety of the machines, I can't stop thinking about how they told us the air was safe to breathe after 9/11.
I agree about increasing use of sniffer dogs. As far as hiring people who are "trained to pick out the nervous traveler", the problem I see with that is that there are a lot of "nervous travelers" who are not terrorists--flying is just plain nerve-racking sometimes. I'd hate to think that I would potentially get in trouble just because I am a bit stressed out by the following: the crowds and lines at the airport, trying to find where I need to go and get there in time, being interrogated (like the person who posted her experience flying from Amsterdam to the US, I had to go through all that when doing so this spring--necessary but still unnerving, like being treated as a criminal), and just the fact that I am about to put myself in a situation where if something goes wrong, it could be really bad news. How would they guard against those kinds of "false positives" so to speak?Quote:
Originally Posted by smilingcat
http://ori.cnbc.com/id/40335379
The gal who pulls her breast prosthetics (masectomy) and tosses them in the bin belong to a professional group with me, she shared this article.
I wish Homeland Security would allow TSA to train with Israeli airport security. Not only are Israeli's thorough with inspections (and no pat downs!) but they are trained to study the reactions of individuals who, upon questioning, may be deemed as a possible terrorist. If there's any country that has to deal with the greatest potential for terroristic threats by extremists, it's Israel.
I came across a letter endorsed by several biochem professors at USC that details the documented risks and resulting injuries produced by the backscatter machine. View the actual letter here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/35498347/U...nings-4-6-2010
I have a real problem with not only the use of these so called security measures but for the TSA's approach to young children who are strip searched in front of their helpless parents. :mad: :mad: One woman, who was traveling with her young grandchildren, opted for a pat down and was forced to set her toddler on the floor well away from the TSA agent and watched helplessly as people walked by the baby. The agent told her that she could not hold the child because she would "contaminate" her.
What kind of screening is that?? Placing a toddler on the floor, away from the grandparent, in a busy airport where someone could have easily kidnapped the child?? Sorry but I would have politely told them them they could not touch me or my children.
That letter is scary, sundial. I would definitely trust what those UCSF scientists/faculty have to say vs. what the TSA and government have to say about the safety of the backscatter machines.
I wonder if anything will come of this letter - I fear not.
Thanks for that, sundial. I'd heard the same thing, but only repeated second or third hand by people with no expertise - hard to convince others when I'm just repeating it myself.
Emily, I fear the gov't doesn't really have our best interest at heart.
Oak, I hope people become more aware of the dangers of the backscatter devices. The more people are educated about such matters the better.
That letter is amazing. It never occurred to me that the operators of these machines might be able to adjust the radiation level to improve the image. Holy cow. And that the level of radiation exposure is more concentrated in the skin and immediately adjacent tissue...I can't imagine any man agreeing to put himself at that kind of risk for testicular cancer, and I sure don't want my daughter or me going through the machines. I have a history of skin cancer.
I don't think I'll be able to fly until these machines are gone.
Roxy
I flew from Canada to the US and back last weekend and was expecting all kinds of inconvenience -- in my past experience they've taken the US security measures quite seriously. But this time, no pat-down, no backscatter. Just the normal stuff. I was surprised.
Still, I'm grateful for this thread for raising my awareness about what people have been experiencing these past few months. Who knows what TSA will be doing for Christmas!
Given the option, I'd take a train. Much more comfortable! But not an option right now.
Thanks for posting a link to the letter sundial. I flew to Seattle last Wednesday, was selected for the backscatter at O'Hare, and I opted out. Thus, I was patted down. The TSA woman was very respectful, asked about any sensitivities and explained every step before carrying it out; the process was tolerable. I requested fresh gloves, though.
What is most annoying about security in the US is how reactive the process is: shoes, underwear... I think having bomb sniffing dogs in security would be more effective than any X-ray or "enhanced pat down". Dogs would also be friendlier.
Glad to hear the patdown wasn't too bad. I'm leaning towards doing that instead of the backscatter if I get picked for that the next time we fly. I'd rather face a couple of minutes of embarrassment than risk my health for something non-essential.Quote:
Originally Posted by pll
Pll, you're welcome and I'm glad that you had a TSA agent that was respectful of your modesty. :)
Here's another letter raising concerns about the backscatter devices. This is written by Rep. Holt (D-NJ) who is a PhD physicist:
http://holt.house.gov/images/stories...11.19.2010.pdf
Do you suppose these machines and the aggressive patdowns will be gone by summer? I really want to go to Hawaii, and I get motion sick on the stationary Blood Mobile, so a cruise really isn't an option.
Roxy
Well, most big cruise ships have stabilizers, so chances are you wouldn't have too much of a sea sick problem. My mom took ginger on her cruise, it helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by channlluv
It's starting to sound like not everyone has to go through the machine or the pat down, some just go through the regular metal detector. Or am I reading it wrong?
That's what it sounds like to me, but I don't think you get to choose. I assume you'd need to be prepared to deal with the machine or the pat down.Quote:
Originally Posted by snapdragen
More info on the x'ray medical issue, a pretty good article:
http://myhelicaltryst.blogspot.com/2...y-scanner.html
I flew "home" to visit Family
At LAX(Los Angeles International) , They were just using the metal detector (They did have the Backscatter machines there)
Lil'old Cape Girardeau doesn't have the Nude-o-Scopes yet. I did have a note in my checked luggage that it had been searched by the TSA.
I've been through various airports eight times in the last ten weeks, crossed the U.S, the Pacific and the Atlantic, with and without my bike. I haven't come across anyone or anything that I considered rude, annoying or violating. I only got a pat down twice, and both times, they were non-obtrusive and the agent was extremely polite.
The only annoyances were people who did not know of the TSA carry-on regulations, thus holding up the lines.
Did the TSA thing yesterday.
The pat-down was no problem at all. Standard pat-down just with a lot more detailed verbal explanation before each touch, and attention to the legs than usual.
The poopy part was the "Opt Out" 3-ring circus.
I was directed to the x-ray backscatter, and politely said I couldn't do it. (I did not offer to display my collection of cancer scars, but I was ready to.)
Dude running the metal detector and backscatter in my lane hollered out "WE HAVE AN OPT OUT" and that got repeated up and down the 5 lanes that were running. "SHUT DOWN THE BELT. WE HAVE AN OPT OUT."
They directed me to stand right where I was, shut down the x-ray belt my stuff was on, the TSA folks on the lanes either side of me made all the passengers pick up their stuff from my lane and duck under the lane dividers and get into new lanes, all the while saying "I'm sorry, we have to start you over because there's an Opt Out in your lane." One woman glared at me as she struggled to carry 2 bins of stuff and fold over double to duck under the divider. I told her I was sorry.
I felt like sh*t.
It took a couple minutes before a female TSA agent could come get me. She removed my stuff from the stopped belt (wouldn't let me carry it) and brought me over to the pat-down area. Once I was removed from the lane, they started the belt up and let passengers enter the lane again.
After the pat-down, I asked her what I could do in the future to prevent an entire lane from being shut-down and other passengers behind me having to pick up their stuff and move to new lanes. She told me there really wasn't anything else, and that I was fine.
Some airports I've been in have the special needs lanes/slow lanes at the TSA check point. I think in future I'll just go straight to that lane (if there is one) to avoid the total lane shut-down I cause just by asking for the frisking option.
Oh wow, that's too bad, Knott. I think they should just have an "opt out" lane. Maybe in time they will as it would be much more efficient for everyone.
You know, I think they purposely make you feel embarrassed as punishment for not going through their porn tube. There are so many filed complaints of passengers who were belittled for opting out. I'm glad that you stood your ground and did the opt out and that your pat down was conducted in a professional manner.Quote:
Originally Posted by KnottedYet
Excellent source of information and links for filing a formal complaint against TSA:
http://wewontfly.com/
There's a class action lawsuit that's been filed against TSA. Hopefully it will result in the removal of the gropers and scanners from our airports.
I agree, and that's nothing new. It's the same reason elderly people, particularly elderly women, have been profiled all along for more intrusive searches.Quote:
Originally Posted by sundial
But that's another thread...
I flew out of DC a couple weeks ago - there were machines but they weren't using them. Same with flying out of Fort Lauderdale yesterday.
I would have opted out if they wanted to use one. I find the entire thing ridiculous, especially since the machines can't find anything in cavities or anything - so really... what exactly are these machines doing that a metal detector & some sort of explosive sniffing dog or swiping machine couldn't do? But I love traveling too much to decide not to ever travel again because of them.
Re - motion sickness in cruises - I get motion sick, but most especially when I don't have fresh air or wind - so if I stay on deck on a cruise, I don't have much problems with it. I make sure to get an upper level room because it's down in the bowels of the ship that I really have issues.
My mom had an interesting experience in an x-ray backscatter machine a couple weeks ago.
She has a lot of scar tissue UNDER the skin of her belly from decades of insulin injections. (no visible scars)
The backscatter radiation penetrated below the level of her skin and reflected off those subdermal scars, setting off an alert on my mom. She got a pat-down of her torso before they would let her through.
There's a bit more penetrating radiation in that procedure than we might think.
Knot
thanks for starting this thread and sharing your experiences (and those of your mom!!!)
Even though I am not an incest survivor, nor a cancer survivor, I am pretty unhappy about the aspect of getting zapped by their machines as well as getting groped by a man or a woman. I am not sure why I am supposed to be comforted because the groper is guaranteed to be the same sex as me. Why is that less intrusive?
I used to look happily towards my next flying experience, I first flew in 1957 and then intercontinentally in 1964. Sadly, I find myself wanting to avoid ever flying again.