The Swine Flu Shot a Waste of Time!

New Scientist is my favourite magazine, I love it. Thanks for the tip.

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Originally Posted by Eden

Antibiotics will only help you if you get a secondary bacterial infection (like pneumonia). Viruses - ala flu, are unaffected by them and are still *very* difficult to treat. We do have some anti-virals these days, but supplies are limited and effectiveness is limited (Tamiflu has a very specific time period that it must be taken in to work). Of course as you probably know even bacterial infections are getting more difficult to treat, with many resistant to multiple antibiotics. If you are hospitalized with flu your chances of contracting MRSA or some other nasty are much greater (especially if you require intubation). If we were to experience a major outbreak like the one in 1918 it is likely that many, many people (young and healthy people) would still die.

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Eden - you are correct to state that antibiotics do not help to eradicate the flu - antibiotics will do nothing for viral infections. I should have stated that the thought is that many died from a cytokine storm (our immune system in overdrive) that caused pulmonary edema and/or a secondary bacterial infection (which at the time there was no antibiotics for).

This is an interesting discussion but feels largely irrelevant from where I'm sitting -- my two-year-old (who is not particularly high risk aside from being very small for her age) is on waiting lists for both H1N1 and seasonal flu vaccine, because her pediatrician's office has run out of both. I'm pregnant and my OB does know when they are getting the shots. Kaiser seems to have both the shot and the mist, but nobody else has either right now. We'll both be vaccinated if we can be, but right now it looks like vaccines will not be available until the worst of the epidemic is over.

Doesn't your health department have it? Since it's on pandemic ordering (I didn't really understand how that worked before reading the article NbyNW posted), all the distribution is through state and county health departments.

Here, no private entities have the H1N1 vaccine, and no word on when they'll have any, but the county health departments have been having clinics once or twice a week for eligible populations.

I was in Sam's Club yesterday afternoon and I stumbled into a little-trafficked area by the pharmacy, and they had a flu shot clinic set up back there. About 50 chairs lined up along the aisle, and not a single person in line.

I did not get the shot. (I doubt they were giving H1N1 anyway.)

Karen

Probably just the regular flu shot. They've had a "clinic" -- more like a table in the back of the store -- at our local Safeway. People haven't exactly been lining up there, but I've seen a few getting the shot.

Xeney -- check with your Public Health Department

http://www.sacpublichealth.net/

News tonight says 10 million doses of H1N1 will be available by next week.

Our flu clinic is officially "out" of both seasonal and H1N1 vaccines.

However, each doctor has a reserve of both for the high-risk patients in their practices. Xeney, if your OB and pediatrician are out, can you contact your primary care physician and ask if they have any in reserve for high-risk folks? You being pregnant makes you qualify.

Snap is right. Each state and then each county has a distribution plan. The best place to start for info is with the Sacramento County Public Health Dept.

I'm in a high risk category and I've been told the same thing by my doctor (of course, for my own state and county . . . ).

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Originally Posted by snapdragen

Xeney -- check with your Public Health Department

http://www.sacpublichealth.net/

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Originally Posted by SadieKate

Snap is right. Each state and then each county has a distribution plan. The best place to start for info is with the Sacramento County Public Health Dept.

I'm in a high risk category and I've been told the same thing by my doctor (of course, for my own state and county . . . ).

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SadieKate is absolutely right, as always. She is indefatiguable in pursuit of factuality. Just because our PCP's all have reserves doesn't mean yours would. Please ignore my suggestion.

Our public health department is not starting shot clinics until mid November and they do not have any vaccine available at the moment. In Northern California most of it has gone directly to Kaiser, as I understand it. I'll go to the clinics once they start, but so far there have only been seasonal flu vaccine clinics (and I gather those supplies are all gone, too).

It's a great idea to talk to your PCP to asses risks and your decision about the shot. Speaking of which I caught this on the news the other day.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local...-67229792.html

Yes, I think we all should aspire to eat a diet rich in nutrition, fruits and vegies, high in vitamins and nutrients. Even a car crash I was in as a youth I came out of it ok because I was fit. We all try to "eat right", I'm sure that helps in a lot of ways. But we should know the science/medical risks and rewards.

Thanks to all you TE medical type folk for chiming in with the "house call" :cool:

The debate about vaccination has been a long one. Here's a quote from Benjamin Franklin:

In 1736 I lost one of my sons, a fine boy of four years old, by the small-pox, taken in the common way. I long regretted bitterly, and still regret that I had not given it to him by inoculation. This I mention for the sake of parents who omit that operation, on the supposition that they should never forgive themselves if a child died under it; my example showing that the regret may be the same either way, and that, therefore, the safer should be chosen.

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Originally Posted by Trek420

I'm not sayin' who I work for but someone once mailed a bill to my employer addressed only with our slogan "no job is so urgent, no service so important that we can not afford to do our job safely" and it got here.

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Ha! I used to work for them too; haven't thought of that slogan in years.

Pam

Well, this must be the new protocol in some organizations: no handshaking at all.

Happened today at meeting where I met 3 people. One of the individuals apologized ..several times in advance, and clearly told me because of H1N1 scare.

This was not a health care organization.

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Originally Posted by shootingstar

Well, this must be the new protocol in some organizations: no handshaking at all.

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I think that's a fine idea. After all, you have no idea where my hands have been ;)

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Originally Posted by badger

my dad has leukemia and taking chemo which has left him with virtually no immune system to speak of.

He's already gotten his shot, so I'm glad about that. I'm still sitting on the fence in regards to my taking the H1N1. I won't bother with the seasonal flu vaccine, as I just never do, but I'm a bit weary of the H1N1 simply because I would hate it to mutate like it did in 1918 and kill the young and healthy.

I also admit that, although this is a very rare side effect, I do worry about adverse effects of the shots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh5F5wP8RdU

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With no immune system to speak of - the leukemia & the chemo, chances are the h1n1 shot is not going to be effective for your father and he didn't build up immunity to it.

If you have the chance to get the vaccine & the normal flu vaccine, I'd suggest you might want to do it - just because it'd suck if you gave him the flu. I know my father's oncologist recommended the entire family get it when he was on chemo.

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Originally Posted by Zen

I think that's a fine idea. After all, you have no idea where my hands have been ;)

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Not to mention that dude with the knuckle tattoos.

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Originally Posted by badger

my dad has leukemia and taking chemo which has left him with virtually no immune system to speak of.

He's already gotten his shot, so I'm glad about that. I'm still sitting on the fence in regards to my taking the H1N1. I won't bother with the seasonal flu vaccine, as I just never do, but I'm a bit weary of the H1N1 simply because I would hate it to mutate like it did in 1918 and kill the young and healthy.

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I'm very sorry about this, badger. I wasn't aware of this at all.

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Originally Posted by Zen

I think that's a fine idea. After all, you have no idea where my hands have been ;)

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I think we here in the West also adapt the tradition of bowing when we meet. Shows respect rather than being from a tradition of "look, I don't have a sword" and much more sanitary. :D

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Originally Posted by Trek420

I think we here in the West also adapt the tradition of bowing when we meet. Shows respect rather than being from a tradition of "look, I don't have a sword" and much more sanitary. :D

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I see that often among the male doctors. Kind of an abbreviated bow, or an exaggerated nod. Female docs seem to all shake hands.

A second 12 year old, this one in Lincoln RI, died yesterday; they are not sure if she had Swine flu but she was at Hasbro with flu like symptoms.

Hmmm... sore throat, runny nose, red dry eyes (I look like Dracula!), headache, fatigue... but no fever.

Whatever I've got, I'm staying home today.

Good idea. Have some chicken soup :o

Ruh roh. Feel better soon Knott.

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Originally Posted by Veronica

How can they NOT tell you how many sick days you get and how can they fire you for being sick?

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From today's NYT:

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According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 39 percent of private-sector workers do not receive paid sick leave....

A survey last year by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago found that 68 percent of those not eligible for paid sick days said they had gone to work with a contagious illness like the flu, while 53 percent eligible for paid sick days said they had done so.

That survey found that 11 percent of respondents said that they had lost a job for taking off for an illness for themselves or a family member, and 13 percent said they had been told they would be fired or suspended if they missed work because of personal or family illness.

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hm, the flu shot IS a waste of time. People who work at my company were invited to the cafeteria for shots yesterday; so people went. THose that showed up discovered that there were no shots there; so they did NOT get their shots. (some problem with the supply, again)

Knot, hope you feel better soon!

It seems that it was incredibly ambitious to try to make so much vaccine available all at once. Here in Alberta the vaccination clinics were open to anyone last week, but I heard there were long waits. Today they have announced that for the time being priority will go to pregnant women, young children, and people under 65 with "chronic health conditions."

It's unclear how you prove that you have a chronic health condition. I'm unclear whether I qualify, with asthma and not yet having an Alberta Health Services card. They did let me get a seasonal flu shot a few weeks ago, but there wasn't a supply issue for that.

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Originally Posted by Catriona

With no immune system to speak of - the leukemia & the chemo, chances are the h1n1 shot is not going to be effective for your father and he didn't build up immunity to it.

If you have the chance to get the vaccine & the normal flu vaccine, I'd suggest you might want to do it - just because it'd suck if you gave him the flu. I know my father's oncologist recommended the entire family get it when he was on chemo.

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My dad and I were both wondering about that, but his oncologist still told him to get it, so he did.

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Originally Posted by NbyNW

It's unclear how you prove that you have a chronic health condition. I'm unclear whether I qualify, with asthma and not yet having an Alberta Health Services card. They did let me get a seasonal flu shot a few weeks ago, but there wasn't a supply issue for that.

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A letter from my GP or endocrinologist stating that I'm in their care for diabetes has been enough to get me a seasonal flu shot. I imagine that it depends a little on the jurisdiction.

Harrumph. Was just on the phone a couple hours ago with my doc, telling 'em I didn't have a fever and wanted to be cleared to go back to work... and now I have a fever.

Poopy.

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Originally Posted by badger

My dad and I were both wondering about that, but his oncologist still told him to get it, so he did.

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He might should get a pneumonia shot.

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Harrumph. Was just on the phone a couple hours ago with my doc, telling 'em I didn't have a fever and wanted to be cleared to go back to work... and now I have a fever.

Poopy.

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See, that's how you catch this thing: by talking to your PCP. :rolleyes:

Really, I know that correlation is not causation.

So much so that two years ago, the last time my arthritis flared (lasting 6-8 months), I didn't even connect it to the flu shot I'd just had.

Now, the psychological pull becomes a bit stronger. :(

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Really, I know that correlation is not causation.

So much so that two years ago, the last time my arthritis flared (lasting 6-8 months), I didn't even connect it to the flu shot I'd just had.

Now, the psychological pull becomes a bit stronger. :(

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That's why I get the flu mist. Two generations of my family have an arthritis-like reaction to the flu shots that lasts about a year. (best guess is it's related to an ingredient, not the virus itself) We all have goofy autoimmune issues, so who knows what is really the cause of the reaction.

I've never had a flu injection, so no idea if I'd have the same reaction or not. But the flu mist is no problem.

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

That's why I get the flu mist. Two generations of my family have an arthritis-like reaction to the flu shots that lasts about a year. (best guess is it's related to an ingredient, not the virus itself) We all have goofy autoimmune issues, so who knows what is really the cause of the reaction.

I've never had a flu injection, so no idea if I'd have the same reaction or not. But the flu mist is no problem.

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Oh, wonderful. I'd be eligible for the mist today if it were available to me (which it's not), but as of tomorrow I won't be any more. :mad::mad:

I wonder if a healthy 50-year-old can beg and wheedle her PCP for the mist.


ETA: but maybe since the H1N1 shot is non-adjuvanted in the USA, it won't aggravate what I already have? I can hope anyway.

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

That's why I get the flu mist. Two generations of my family have an arthritis-like reaction to the flu shots that lasts about a year. (best guess is it's related to an ingredient, not the virus itself) We all have goofy autoimmune issues, so who knows what is really the cause of the reaction.

I've never had a flu injection, so no idea if I'd have the same reaction or not. But the flu mist is no problem.

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Interesting. I have been hearing stuff lately about some of the ingredients in the injected vaccine (particularly the H1N1) and am not sure what to believe but it is starting to make me nervous. I already had the injected seasonal flu shot this year as I have for the past few years, but have been struggling with the decision to get or not get the H1N1 b/c I am a health care worker and would not want to give the bug to my patients but also don't want to end up with a problem from stuff in the vaccine. I think I'll get the nasal H1N1 vaccine since both will (supposedly) be available at the free clinic where I volunteer (they're giving it to health care workers first). Probably better immunity anyway--it's a live attenuated rather than an inactivated virus and it's using the same portal of entry that the actual flu would. Plus I won't have to deal with a sore arm (the flu shot for me is worse than the tetanus shot as far as that reaction goes) :p.

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Originally Posted by Zen

He might should get a pneumonia shot.

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yeah, he'll get one soon. He didn't want to get 3 shots (seasonal, H1N1, AND pneumonia). Good thing he didn't as he did have a fever after the 2 shots, who knows what the 3rd shot would've done.

A co-worker of mine got 2 shots in one day also and she also didn't do very well. Ended up taking 2 days off as she had a slight fever and was achey all over.

" Oh it's OK. It's just allergies..."

Grrrr

I'm one of those who cannot get a flu shot. I have lupus & my rheumatologist has forbidden it. Alive, killed or barely breathing - no flu shot. So I really get p.o'ed with people who show up places sick. I want to say, "Why do you think you're so important that you MUST be here??"

So, I'm just really careful. I carry hand sanitizer, I watch that I don't touch my face in public, wash my hands a lot, blah blah. I don't want to be one of those OCD people on Intervention though :p

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Originally Posted by Dogmama

" Oh it's OK. It's just allergies..."

Grrrr

I'm one of those who cannot get a flu shot. I have lupus & my rheumatologist has forbidden it. Alive, killed or barely breathing - no flu shot. So I really get p.o'ed with people who show up places sick. I want to say, "Why do you think you're so important that you MUST be here??"

So, I'm just really careful. I carry hand sanitizer, I watch that I don't touch my face in public, wash my hands a lot, blah blah. I don't want to be one of those OCD people on Intervention though :p

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I know what you mean. Someone I work with was home two days last week taking care of her sick children. Despite the fact that she can work from home whenever it's necessary, she came in to the office on Friday. And she hacked and coughed and sniffled the whole day. I had work to do with her but I stayed away instead. There was absolutely no reason why she couldn't have stayed home with her germs.

I'm at the point where I use hand sanitizer every time I go into the office kitchen. Lord only knows whose germs are on the refrigerator handle, microwave and drawer handles.