If you need a 38 bar you should not get a 42....it might lead to subtle shoulder/elbow issues. Plus, again, it might make it harder to wrap your fingers around the brake levers if the bar is too wide.Quote:
Originally Posted by elk
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If you need a 38 bar you should not get a 42....it might lead to subtle shoulder/elbow issues. Plus, again, it might make it harder to wrap your fingers around the brake levers if the bar is too wide.Quote:
Originally Posted by elk
Elk:Quote:
Originally Posted by elk
you wouldn't think it, but 4cm makes a BIG difference. I can definitely tell the difference just between 38s and 40s, and find 38s more comfortable. My old bike came stock with 42s, and they were very awkward for me -- much too large. Don't compromise on size just because Sierra has a good deal... you'll regret it.
As to the ability to adjust the bar in the stem (rolling it up or down) -- yes, you can compensate with this a little bit, but there's a fairly small range of bar angles that put both the tops and the drops at comfortable angles, so don't count on being to make up too much.
I don't think your adjustable stem is going to address the potential issue of limited hood adjustability, because the problem isn't the actual height of the bars/hoods (from the ground, or relative to your saddle, or whatever), but the angle they put your wrist in at a given placement.
If it's any consolation I obsessed endlessly about which bars and which stem to get for my new bike :).
I found the Easton bar...equipe pro...in a 40.....??
is the shape and size otherwise good?
I think the Equipe Pro looks like a good shape.
40 is a really common size -- maybe you could find a friend who has 40s and take his or her bike out for a spin to make sure the size is comfortable before you commit?
AH! I was at some friend's last night, looking at old Cinelli bars which I thought were sweet and round and look what i found....in 26 38cm:
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...2&category=636
argghhh
here's what I have so far
current: Ritchey Biomax ergo 130 drop 75
others:
138 110 cinelli traditional curve 110 is the measurement of the bottom of the bar
130 75 easton "
125 80 modolo "
138 86 deda elem4 girls ergo?
Elk, check your email- I located some Tiagra shims for you.
*@"*@"Quote:
Originally Posted by BleeckerSt_Girl
.....\/ ......
that's my attempt at a bouquet of flowers...looks like an owl though...:D
to further complicate matters....or perhaps to simplify...http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...&category=1726
shims that turn 26.00 bars into 31.8 capable bars...which means I could actually get those FSA Wings like Liza's which I like the looks of....
:eek:
LOL here I am talking to myself again....I do it in life too:rolleyes:
Those will adapt a smaller bar to a larger stem. I think you have the opposite situation (you have a small stem that you WISH would take a larger diameter bar). So sadly they won't help :(...Quote:
Originally Posted by elk
d'oh!
---------------
I actually Found a 38/42 TTT Eva!!! Ordered it....I like the looks of it...and it's in Seattle!
I have an older version of the Dolce in black. They made all the difference for me in reach. They are thick, so you want to be sure your stem fits.Quote:
Originally Posted by elk
As for location of the hoods, I'd say you might not want to move the hoods lower on the bars but rather higher and then rotate the bars downward some.
INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW:
how do you like your new bars? :D
I DON'T KNOW!!!!!
I rode 30 miles on them yesterday and they seemed kind of cramped...when I wanted to ride on the straight bar. ANd my hands were hurting (thumb/wrist) alot until my friend did a tiny adjustment..(rotated them down a bit and scooched the seat forward a mm..) But my hands are my weak spot on the bike ...I'm pretty OK every where else.
I kinda long for 40cm...instead of these 38...but I am ignorant about bar geometry.... so I don't really know!!!
:confused:
thanks for asking.:)
Did you get the brake lever shims installed?
Don't tape up your bars until you are happy with them and happy with the hood position, tilt, etc. If you hate your new bars you can probably exchange or return them if they are not scratched or gummed up from tape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BleeckerSt_Girl
Didn't put the shims in yet...the reach from the drops is E-Z...but I do need them to get better reach on the hoods...I just have to zoom in on the PDF from Shimano....
and grrrrrrrr i already taped them up!!! :o
I still think all you really needed was the shims. :o
i also put some foam forms on the bar...which make the bar all lumpy and fat in places...maybe that's taking up my room?
I don't get it..they look so similiar to my originals except for the shape of the drop...:confused:
Elk, every little change is going to feel odd at first, maybe even make you feel sore for a few days too. You need to change only ONE small thing at a time to avoid total confusion.
Putting on new shaped bars, adding gel pads under them, then changing their tilt AND pushing your saddle forward all at once is not good- it will only confuse the situation and make it really hard for you to figure out why you are not comfortable now and how to fix it.
General biking rule is to make one tiny adjustment and then ride for a few days on it. Then maybe try another small adjustment and again ride for a few days.
When you make 3 or 4 changes at once all hell breaks loose and it's hard to find your way back.
My advice at this point: (putting aside the radical idea of putting your old bars back on and just installing the shims) would be to undo the last two changes...tilt the tops of the bars level again and put your saddle BACK where it was comfortable for you before, and ride a few days to give your body time to adjust to the new bars.
Leave your saddle alone, where it was comfortable before you changed the bars. By moving the saddle forward you throw your center of gravity forward more over the crank, and if anything this will put more weight on your hands. :(
Now that you have taped the bars you can't change the hood position unless you take the tape and gel padding off....(which actually might be a good idea anyway).
I put that gel on my Riv bars and truthfully I wouldn't do it again- they did nothing except make the bars FAT so that I had to buy extra tape. It looks kind of ugly to me now, like a big nightcrawler worm. :eek:
All the above is just my own opinion based on my having gone through all these very same issues myself and learning the hard way. :o
Hmmm... lots of stuff going on. I'm going to try to break my thoughts down into bites and number them so hopefully my response will seem somewhat coherent :D.
1. Depending on the kind of gel wrap you used, you may not have to totally unwrap your bars in order to move your hoods. I have partially unwrapped and rewrapped bars for adjustments before using the same tape with no problem. You have to be a little careful of course. The gel will make it more of a hassle, but even that is probably not insurmountable if you have patience.
2. Do you have a trainer? I know there's an inertia problem with putting your bike on a trainer when it's nice outside, knowing you will have to switch the skewer and everything the next time you want to ride outside :p... But I think it would be helpful for you to set up your bike on a trainer so you can actually sit on it on focus on how each adjustment feels, without the distractions of an outside ride. Leave the bike on the trainer as you adjust it, and keep getting on it and trying it out until it feels right. Assuming you're not making HUGE changes (stem height, bar width, etc), 10 minutes on a trainer should give you a very good idea of whether or not it's going to work. By the way, changing handlebars should not make you sore, if they are the same size as you had before...
3. I agree with Lisa that you don't want to change everything at once. What was the rationale behind rolling the bars forward and moving the seat forward? Was that because you were feeling cramped? If so, I'm not sure that's a great solution, for two reasons -- first, you really don't want to get into using your saddle position to adjust your reach, because outside of a pretty small range that may be likely to cause knee issues. Second, while rolling the bar forward may give an illusion of more reach, it can also mess up your wrist angle which can cause pain or numbness over time. Do the new bars actually have shorter reach than the old bars? Or is it how you have set up the hoods? One thing you *could* try that would have a similar effect to rolling the bars forward would be to adjust the rise of your nice adjustable-rise stem so it puts you down a little lower. As Lisa says though, this will tend to put relatively more weight on your hands, and that may or may not be okay. A longer stem might help too, if your reach really feels cramped...
4. When you talk about gel "taking up room", where are you talking about? Are the drops feeling like the drop is too compact? Or something else? I will say that 38 cm bars in general do not have a lot of real estate on the tops. Some bars seem to have a little more than others for some reason, but all smaller bars have small tops. I never ride on the tops, and I think part if it is that there is so little usable space up there that I end up grasping with too narrow of a grip for comfort -- if I had 40 or 42 cm bars, I might ride on the tops sometimes...
Ok, enough for now... but I really do think you should consider throwing your bike up on a trainer (if you have one) and testing each adjustment as you make it.
good luck!
Liza, I 'think' Elk put some foam pads in various places on her bars UNDER her tape.....like these, maybe?:Quote:
Originally Posted by liza
http://www.wallbike.com/oddsnends/marsas.html
http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2364
Yes, one can sometimes re-wrap the bars using the same tape if you unwrap them very carefully. :o
I re wrapped the first half of the bar about 4 times....I might have to use some new tape or glue...on my BROOKS LEATHER TAPE:eek::eek:
My foam pads are worse than those...I wish I hadn't bought them...they just seem to make the bar fatter not softer!! Fatter and lumpy...that nad hte fact that I was wearing bigger gloves may have stolen some room from me on the tops...I also felt a bit like I had less control of the bike up there.
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...7&category=840
OK. Don't have a trainer. My hands were killing me on the first 5 miles of our trip and my friend actually made it more comfortable by moving things a tiny tiny bit.... maybe......
Part of it may be sore computer thumbs and also I'm madly working in the studio to get my show ready (I have to deliver the work THURSDAY!!) ...and that can strain my hands...
But I have to say that I'm kinda happy that's the only part that really hurts...although now that I think about it...after that adjustment, I rode another 20 miles and my back was a little sore....
I have no core strength, I admit it....I think I'll put the saddle back where it was and then see what happens. geez.
SOmetimes I ride up and down the street to test out adjustments...
oh...the Cinelli s are 140/75 and my old Ritcheys are 125/75.
What do you mean by "killing me"?- Sharp pain? Numbness? just weight on them? Tingling?Quote:
Originally Posted by elk
I recommend you put the saddle back where you were comfortable on it before.Quote:
...after that adjustment, I rode another 20 miles and my back was a little sore....
I have no core strength, I admit it....I think I'll put the saddle back where it was and then see what happens. geez.
Better to ride several days to test an adjustment.Quote:
SOmetimes I ride up and down the street to test out adjustments...
killing me = stiff, numb...sometimes tingling, too much weight on them...I kept
shaking them out.
So let me get this straight- the new bars are apparently causing you to have too much weight on your hands, right? This is a bad thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by elk
Can you return them and go back to your old bars? What exactly was the reason you got rid of your old bars?
I don't know if it's the new bars...or the fact that when I put them on I changed the placement in some fundamental and mysterious way ..
I changed bars for better reach ...and because I think the ergo bars (are ugly...)
but I'll put em back on with shims if I need to...although I'd like these to have a chance.
Hi Elk, I just replied to your post about bars on another thread, and then I found this one again (yep, I'm a little slow sometimes...).
Did you try the deda elementi 4 girls then? They are 38 and easy reach - so maybe it could be a solution to your problem.
http://www.dedaelementi.com/It/Produ...ctIDMaster=377
For better reach of your fingers around the brake levers, right? Not to correct your whole body reach from your seat to your hands? Was your general body position and body/arm reach comfortable before, (not counting the short finger reach issue)? Did you feel your body weight was well centered befor you changed your bars, and not well centered afterwards?Quote:
Originally Posted by elk
If your reach problem is JUST in wrapping your fingers around the brake levers, and not a too long toptube whole body reach issue, then I personally feel the brifters shims would solve that, judging from your pictures.
Sometimes something that seems ugly but feels really good can slowly begin to look pretty beautiful. ;)
I once bought a banjo that was a good price but I swore it was the ugliest banjo I ever saw. Made with white formica kitchen counter overlay with little gold flecks in it. After I played it a while I realized how silky it was to play and how great it sounded, and then it became strangely beautiful in my mind. :)
Now it's one of my favorites.
No, Lisa...my overall reach is fine on the Aurora...it was a fingers only problem and then I got all caught up in the romance of handlbars with their various geographies....
I was wondering about the Deda 4Girls....you're the first one.. TxDoc to say she likes them. I'll go check out yr other post...but now I wonder if they have enough "real estate" on top...although I must say I use the tops far less than i used to...
It is true the ergo bends DO tend to place the levers farther away in the drops, especially if the hoods are placed on the high side, so I don't think Elk is crazy for changing bars.Quote:
Originally Posted by BleeckerSt_Girl
Elk, you (perhaps inadvertantly) changed to a bar the has a longer reach (that is, reach in the usual sense, not in the "wrapping fingers around brakes sense). It's not a huge difference, but probably enough to feel on the drops... I wonder if this is a problem for you?
You can test out the shimming suggestion without purchasing the official shimano shims-- just shove something, such as felt, in the gap created when you depress the levers. Floor protectors for furniture legs work well, as they have adhesive on one side. Try them out, then remove if you don't like them. Easy.
I had the dede4girls on my old road bike. They are fairly short reach, but were too narrow for my relatively broad shoulders. I have elf short reach bars on my new bike in a wider size that fits my shoulders and it's much more comfortable. Perhaps measure yourself to see what fits-- you measure from the bump in your shoulder to shoulder while standing up quite straight (this is illustrated on the web-- look for photos). Also note that bar measurements come in two flavors-- center to center (measured from the middle of the bar) and outside to outside (measure from the outside of the bars). The difference tends to be about a cm, so it's important to make sure you know which system is in use.
finally, the arm discomfort you describe could be because your reach is now too short (the reach to the tops or hoods; not the reach to the levers when your hands are on the hoods or drops). This is the most common reason for arm discomfort, per my bike fitter.
Perhaps when you installed the new bars, the reach to the tops or hoods was shortened. If so, you may need a new stem. This happened to me when I installed my new bars, which resulted in a 1 cm shorter reach to the hoods. When I put a new stem in, adding back the 1 cm, my arm discomfort cleared up immediately. Pretty incredible how 1 cm can impact the overall comfort and fit on a bike.
finally, from your pictures, it looks like your hoods are tilted up a bit. This can put pressure on your wrists as well because of the angle that your wrist takes when on the hoods. But the perspective in the photos could be warped
good luck. it sounds like you might benefit from a bike fit, as it seems like multiple factors are in play
I don't think Elk is nuts for wanting to try new bars either. We all like to try new or different things, and the theory behind it sounds good. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by liza
My own experience (yours may vary):
On my Rivendell, I had the very same finger reach problem as Elk had. Our hand photos are almost identical. But I also had an overall long toptube reach problem.
I first changed bars- from my original Nitto Noodle classic shaped drop bars to Salsa Poco ergo bars. That change did help my toptube body-reach issue a little bit, plus I found the Poco bars to be more comfortable overall. But unfortunately, it didn't change a damned thing about my finger/brake reach problem. :(
Then I got my custom Luna bike. I ordered it with the very same Poco bars (which I found to be comfy on my Riv). But the difference was that I also ordered it with the brifter shims already in place to help my fingers reach around the levers.
Voila- same bars, same hood placement, same bar tilt- only real difference was the shims, and my brake reach problem was TOTALLY and IMMEDIATELY SOLVED. What a pleasure it is to brake now- completely opposite from before. I feel so much more secure, especially on steep scary downhills.
So Elk- you will need to find a handlebar that you like, that is comfy for you and does not affect your body reach in a bad way or throw you off balance onto your hands. That might be some new bar you want to try, or one that you were previously comfy on. Or, maybe you will adapt to these new bars you just got and feel better on them after a few more rides?
To save yourself some time and money, try to refrain from taping up any bars until you are completely happy with how they feel after riding them for a week. ;)
But meanwhile, you have the correct model brake shims already, just sitting there... why not put them on?? The brake cable tensions will have to be adjusted when the shims are put on. Unless you know your way around cables and brakes, I do suggest you get a bike shop to install them for you so you can feel really safe.
I think if you were comfortable on your bike before you changed the bars, then it makes little sense to me to keep the new uncomfortable bars and try to make them work by changing saddle position, hood position, bar tilt, new stem, etc etc.....all to try to get as comfortable as you already were before.
Ok, I apologize- at this point I've been way too big mouthed with my opinions- I'm going to shut up now, I promise! ;-D
don't shut up! You always make sense....
Liza..the reach: 140 vs 130 on the old bars.
If I could find that easton bar...EC90 Equipe PRO (not ergo) for a 26. stem in 40cm width...that might be perfect....same reach/drop as the ritcheys but not ergo.
unless that's the one that won't fit on a 4 bolt plate....sigh....
I was SO close, SO close before I messed with the bars...I suppose that means I can get even closer...a bike fit might be in order NadiaMAc
and BTW..elk doesn't race...although her competitive spirit is awakened at certain moments...;)
Such as when men 15 years older and carrying around a beer gut, but wearing full CSC kit, pass her on the MUP when she is **slowing down to avoid pedestrians ahead** ?Quote:
Originally Posted by elk
ahem, cough, cough. I don't know anything about this competitive spirit of which you speak :o...