Triskenlion: Perhaps the difference of some males (not all) who are deliberately rude if he is confused, is to look at it differently:
if the customer had been a female customer instead, many women most likely would look blankly in befuddlement and ask outright for further explanation. Or ask 'please show me what you are talking about..'
I don't *think* anyone (RunningMom or anyone else) was being elitist at all. I think anyone who posts here, asks advice here, vents here, reads and posts here is not wholeheartedly aware that somewhere someone knows more. Otherwise, we wouldn't be here, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl
It is all about tones, body language, and circumstance. You can't see that in a post. Remember my post about my unfortunate bike and the ladies that were so obnoxious? Was I irritated because they choose to wear those funny fake nails, carry expensive accessories, eschew dirty legs and sweat and complain about a "funny noise"? No...I was irritated because they would NOT listen to the cause of the funny noise (cross chaining and poor gear selection, from the look of the bike it had about 5 miles on it), they gave me the holier than thou look, and ordered the mechanic around like he was a kitchen maid.
Do I judge? You better believe it. Maybe the Caveman was having a bad day, maybe those women were really St. Elizabeth and St. Mary in disguise, but I doubt it. How people treat others is judgeable.
Trisk-
It was not being ELITIST at all. The caveman reference was to the fact that when I explained the tube situation to him he tuned me out and then got snotty and acused me of not answering his question. But when my male counterpart explained it to him using the exact words I did, he suddenly tuned back in and changed his tone with him.
It was the fact that I had the distinct feeling that he had an attitude towards me because I was a woman. Even my mgr agreed. He actually was the one to refer to his attitude as that of a caveman.
And as for just generally not being elitist or speaking down to someone, or using to much shop speak.
I really take my time to get to know my customer. Figure out how much they know or don't about cycling. I ask a lot of questions.
For people that are completely new I actually show them what a "drive train" or Derailluer is by pointing it out. I try not to overwhelm them with too much knowledge, but also want them to know what to look for when shopping for a bike.
Now people that are cyclists and are upgrading I go a bit more in depth with.
I always hated the way I was treated in bike shops, so I try to be careful about how I interact with people.
Ok. After getting some PM's suggesting that my post was out of line, or may not be so good for business, I am going to let this thread go now. And I think this is the last edition of "tales from the lbs".
Maybe I will just journal them and write a book someday.
carry on folks.
What a bummer. Did you write the Best of Craig's List, Letter from the bike shop? We laughed so hard--then showed it to my BIL. He frowned and said, "I think this is me?!"
We buy the occasional accessory online, but make a habit of purchasing from our local bike shop--because when you need it NOW, you'll be glad they're there.
A business associate just expressed interest in buying a bike. I told him lots of fun stories to encourage him to give it a try. Then he explicitly asked where to buy a bike. "Anywhere except WalMart or any other big box store." I explained they are inferior quality and frequently put together wrong. He said, "but they are name brands? My kids bikes are from WalMart are perfectly safe." Time to walk away. (Pet peeve--don't ask if you don't want my advice.)
Cavemen: Try the aviation industry. Planes don't know you're a girl, but most boys can't deal with a female captain. It's too hard on their very big, fragile ego.
Bleeker: Thanks, I'll have to try that.
Running Mommy--you posted while I was typing. Sorry to hear that you no longer feel that you can vent here. I didn't think you were out of line, but try this: http://www.craigslist.org/about/best...192150038.html I don't think the people you were referring to will end up here, but.......
I think that craig's list post is what Irulan already posted.
I liked your story. It is why I read this, in addition to getting great help and support. Please write more...I got you (and I bet most everyone else did too).Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Mommy
Ignore them. I know exactly what you were trying to convey here and saw nothing "out of line". Some men are like that. I have words for them but will refrain from expression lest I upset some delicate sensibilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Mommy
I liked the story too. And I don't know much about bikes, especially by the standards of these boards. I have met the occasional caveman, though, and it seemed to me the story was more about sexism than bicycle ignorance.
However, as a relative newcomer to the world of bicycling, I was mentally composing something of a rebuttal as I read it. Since you said to carry on, I'm going to. I've been frustrated by my LBS's here recently. One sold us a POJ (piece of junk) that we could just as well bought at WW. He's been bought out, and his successor told us it was a POJ when we brought it in to be repaired. Great. Apparently I still need to be an informed customer, and I don't have a clue how to go about getting informed. (Well, I do have one clue. I'm reading here. It's a slow process, though, when I don't even know what questions to ask. And a fair amount of what I read is right over my head.)
The other shop just doesn't seem very interested. One of my husband's students who works there said that every time the shop gets really busy, the owner leaves. People say, "Don't go there. They only care about people with $3000 bikes."
I'm wondering how many of you shop at big box stores for things other than bikes?
I liked the story as well. I was a bit offended by parts of the CL rant. (And very grateful to know that there are many LBS owners who are less, well, judgmental.) There were numerous differences between your story and that rant. If you were like the CL guy, then I'd also suggest you keep your stories elsewhere. As is... well... I'm going to be sad at the thought of not getting to enjoy similar stories from you. :(
maybe you could collect a list of those of us who WANT TO hear the ranting of a bike shop owner. I loved the stories, including the "pole" story; because sometimes I forget a word and the only thing I can do is substitute something else (and it's funny, I know it is!!!)
It wasn't such a long time ago that my derailleur was a thingy and if you ask my DH he'll tell you I still don't get cassette and chain rings straight sometimes!
The CL rant is humor btw.... like most CL rants, it's overdone to make a point. I'm sure most of us could rant like that about some aspect of our work or personal lives. If that style of humor offends you, probably don't surfQuote:
Originally Posted by witeowl
Best of Craig's List in your spare time: there are some doozies out there. "Why I Want a Stoner Boyfriend" is one of my all time favorites, as is the Minute Man Bike Path Rant.
Ditto here, Denise.Quote:
Originally Posted by kenyonchris
Yeah, I got that. I liked most of it, but I certainly have the right to be offended by the implications of certain jokes; certain things just aren't funny if you don't have a shared view (humor has to be based on truth). For example, to truly appreciate the post, you'd have to think that someone sounding like a fattie would be a bad thing. (Would sounding like a black person be a funny insult?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Irulan
But that's OK. I was just using it for contrast, not complaining. :)
RM-I understood what you meant & certainly have my stories to tell from when i worked in retail.
Feel free to post your rants on my facebook page :D
I guess many folks don't understand the stories posted over at the customer is not always right.. :rolleyes:
I didn't think there was anything wrong, either. Frankly, I wish I had a shop where people would explain stuff. Like I said, I have no need to go to a shop, since I shop at TE or Terry and DH does mechanics. I sometimes wonder what would happen if I had decided to get into cycling if I was single. I have no mechanical ability and I even need someone to help me readjust my helmet straps when they get too loose. Can you imagine if I went into a shop asking for help with that every month or so? While I know a lot about how bikes work now, the "fancy" shop where I bought my bike didn't seem to know anything about short and shallow bars or short reach brifters... it still makes me mad that I had to do the research for that, even though they gave me a new, smaller frame for "free" after 2 years of riding a bike that was too big.
The fact that every time I went into the shop and saw people I knew, probably helped me in the long run. I think the owner thought I was a stupid woman, who only did what her husband told her. However, when several local racers were in the shop and knew me (from when my son raced), he must have observed, and realized I would blab my big mouth all over town about his bad service.
Irulan, there is a Minuteman Bike Path rant??? I guess this is why I don't go on it..