Yes. Do you think the police set up road blocks for cars who are just speeding 5 mph over the limit on the highway? Or does it take a more serious offense such as running from the scene of a crime?Quote:
Originally Posted by Catriona
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Yes. Do you think the police set up road blocks for cars who are just speeding 5 mph over the limit on the highway? Or does it take a more serious offense such as running from the scene of a crime?Quote:
Originally Posted by Catriona
Originally you said:Quote:
Originally Posted by denny
Which makes it sound like they're riding after sunset.Quote:
even if the riders were in violation of riding more than 2 abreast after sunset.
The problem is this has happened twice, which seems to show a disregard on the part of the riders in this group for warnings already given.
If they're speeding, they're speeding, they need to stop doing that. If they're breaking other rules, they need to stop doing that as well.
Whatever the rules are they need to comply with them. There's no excuse for drag racing by cars on isolated stretches of road, even if there isn't "usually" much traffic there. Same rules apply to bikes. Using the same tactics to stop bikes that are used to stop cars isn't a fault on the part of the police. If you're going to fast to stop, whether in a car or on a bike, you were already in the wrong. There IS an immediate danger to the public when you've got a peloton zipping down a public access road like this.
The point is its not a race track, it's a public road, and there are plenty of reasons people might be walking along a well-lit, public road, with kids and dogs in tow, or kids might be walking along there. It's an issue of public safety. It would appear this has been happening on a regular basis, hence the concern and intervention of the local gendarmerie. In order for the cops to be there on two occasions in the right place at the right time, there must be a pattern of disobeying the rules to which they are responding.
Nobody wants anyone to get hurt. But I don't see how much choice the cops had. At the very least, the first attempt to stop the peloton should have been considered a warning, and yet the group repeats the same offense again?
We don't know how often the police have complained to the bike group or not. Or other bike groups if there's multiple bike groups that are doing this...
The faq on the stone mountain site says that you can ride a bike if you do it single file on the road.... not even the 2 abreast that seems to be the Georgia standard.
I know around here, the police routinely step out in front of your car and wave you over if you're violating HOV restrictions, don't have your personal property tax sticker, or you're driving in a shoulder to get to an exit faster in traffic.
None of those are terrible traffic violations that require a person to physically step in front of your car, but cars stop without crashing, and deal.
Yes, but the context of my post was cyclists traveling at the same speed as cars. Why would your 80 yo mom need to pass the cyclists in that case?Quote:
Originally Posted by Irulan
Also, left lane implies two lanes going in the same direction. If your mom is afraid to drive he left lane-that is going the same direction as the right lane-perhaps your mom shouldn't be on the road at all.
Whoa, buddy. Did you read your link? I did and the law says:Quote:
Originally Posted by PscyclePath
"Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable, except when turning left or avoiding hazards to safe cycling, when the lane is too narrow to share safely with a motor vehicle, when traveling at the same speed as traffic,
If the bikes were traveling with traffic, they can take the lane. Now, they shouldn't have been riding more than two abreast and I'm certainly skeptical that they were.
Based on the facts presented, it appears that the cyclists were not following the rules and knew it.
The officer was doing his/her job.
To be honest, I would get nervous coming upon a big group of cyclists riding fast on a curvy park road, even if there was a passing lane. I'm 46 years old and have a good driving record.
We all have a civic duty to obey the rules of the road, regardless of our mode of transportation.
I guess we are going to get all nitpicky here... somewhere I missed that there were two parallel lanes, and I was picking up the concept of a group of bikers blocking/filling a single lane on a two lane road, in general. Stupid me I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by ilima
I'm pretty sure the first time they stopped the peloton ought to have counted as a warning AND a complaint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catriona
Also, a peloton is fairly anonymous - how would you "complain to the group" if you have no idea of what the group is? I'm wondering whether there have been complaints by non-cycling citizens, possibly newspaper articles . . . in any case, having been stopped once, this group apparently chose to ignore the warning and continue the objectionable behavior.
I like riding my bike on the kind of roads described here, and frankly a high-speed peloton overtaking me and passing me would scare the living daylights out of me, probably would force me off the road if I could get there without crashing . . .
I'm nervous when groups that large pass me on closed roads. Most of the riders in big groups that have passed me on rides have not been very considerate, honestly. I was on Tour for Woodside on a closed road and a huge group of riders knocked another cyclist who was going up hill more slowly then they were, into the bushes. I stopped to help, they kept racing. I'm not saying that this group is like that, but I have seen the absolute disdain that some elite cyclists have for anyone who is not of their caliber, that I could see how such a group could be considered a threat to public safety.
Well we are only getting one side of the story with out the benefit of the laws and or rules in effect in the referenced park.
Sounds to me like it's time for the leader of the peloton and perhaps one eloquent accomplice to sit down for a meeting with the police chief and work out what will, and what will not be tolerated, and to educate the police on the dangers of the methods used to try to stop them. It would be good to get a crash course on the law in that jurisdiction, and may do well to consult a bicycling attorney.
There was a recent blog entry "When the Cop Says Stop" by Bob Mionske posted at Bicycling.com on this very subject, this time in Ohio. It was a peloton of two, but similar situation. It is very long, but just goes to show what happens when things escalate:
http://bicycling.com/blogs/roadright...-disobey-cops/
Now there is a equally interesting response in a "A “Cop” Responds" by Mark Wheeler, a Florida cyclist, and cop.
http://bicycling.com/blogs/roadright...-cop-responds/
The lesson is to pick your battles; there is a very fine line between being right, and being dead right.
Let us know how this turns out.
The FAQ for stone mountain park says that biking is allowed and bikes must ride single file on the road. And that there is a bike lane on one side of the mountain.
I only brought up whether or not there were complaints before in response to people asking was it really necessary for the police officers to step out into the road or pull the car out to stop the peleton... If there have been multiple complaints before to the bike groups whether it's when they're pulling into the park or out of it by the rangers (I have no idea how this park looks), or comments yelled at them... And if these complaints have been steadily ignored, I can see why a police officer would think that stepping out into the middle of the road is reasonable...
And if nothing else, the fact that there were crashes means that the peleton really isn't riding in a controlled fashion that they can respond to obstacles or pedestrians.
Btw, thanks for teaching me the word peleton, which I find very cool.
Not stupid. I've actually been to Stone Mountain. Unless there's a big laser light show thingy going on auto traffic is pretty light--at least it was 10+ years ago when I was last there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irulan
When we ride in the park, we're typically two across, but to be honest, where there are two lanes in each direction, we'll take the whole lane. In that situation, I feel it's safer for the cars to move to the outside (same direction) lane to pass us, than for them to try to move over slightly and pass us with another car next to them. (Car in outer lane, car sharing inner lane with us.) The traffic is typically very light, especially later in the day. It's a closed loop - there is no through traffic, and all cars have to pay to enter the park - bicycles and peds are free.
The group in question probably was going too fast. But just like a pedestrian shouldn't step out into a line of fast-moving cars, the policeman shouldn't have done the same. Yes, an animal could have done the same, and there wouldn't be an issue - that's an accident. This was intentional.
Hmmm, except . . . apparently the rule is that bikes are to ride single file.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedal Wench
From the Stone Mountain FAQ:
http://www.stonemountainpark.com/faq/
You're not supposed to be riding two abreast, let alone spreading out and taking the whole lane.Quote:
Bicycles can be ridden along the roadways inside the Park. There is a dedicated bicycle lane on Robert E. Lee Blvd., on the back side of the mountain. Bikers must ride single file and follow all traffic laws.
The flouting of park rules is also obviously intentional, and not only intentional, but repeated. I don't see that the officer had much choice in the matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedal Wench
I agree with Sadie Kate - even if they were intentionally flouting the rules there is such a thing as responding with unnecessary force... I would like to think the officer didn't know what the consequences of stepping out in front of the cyclists would be, rather than the officer intentionally endangering the cyclists for a minor traffic infraction. It would have been more appropriate to wave them off of the road to ticket/warn them or used lights etc in a squad car to pull them over as they would with any other traffic stop. (I find it hard to believe that officers risk their lives by stepping out in front of cars!)Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenSojourner
On another matter - what is the point of requiring cyclists to ride single file if they are traveling the speed limit.... the whole reason for making them do so is to make them easier to pass. If they are traveling the speed limit no one should be passing.....