Stem and Hoods questions

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Originally Posted by GraysonKelly

Thanks for all the info. The only reason I messed with my fore/aft position is because that's what the LBS told me to do since he didn't know how to fix my complaint about reach without getting me a new stem (an idea which he wasn't all that enthusiastic about...in fact he seemed rather irked that I went in there several times with the same complaint). I was just experimenting when I was moving my seat up and back. Just getting a feel for it. I marked where my seat had been before I started messing around so I'd know where to put it back...did the same thing with the seat post so I'll always know where I need it to be. Like I said earlier, I'm obsessive about my knee so my thought in this whole fit process is to make sure my knees are okay and then kind of make the rest of the bike "fit" that...does that make sense? Or is that the wrong attitude? Of course I don't wanna hurt my back or shoulders and honestly nothing hurts (except my wrists in certain positions), it's just that I don't feel comfortable. I don't have the vocab to explain it better than that. But I do appreciate all your help. :)
Gray

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Well, I'm irked that your shop was irked. Ordering a different length stem is hardly an unusual step to take to tweak bike fit and it's a pretty easy swap to make. Suggesting that you change your fore/aft position instead, when they know you have knee issues, is just all kinds of wrong. I have to wonder whether you're going to get the assistance you need from that shop.

At this stage, given your various issues, I think you'd be well advised to find a good fitter in your area. As a starting place to finding one, check out the websites for the bike shops in your area. I'd be willing to bet that at least one of them either employs a fitter or can refer you to one if they carry any custom bike brands, e.g., Serotta, Moots, Independent Fabrication.

Here's one that I found just doing a brief search: http://www.trizilla.com/triathlon/pc/services.asp

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Originally Posted by indysteel

Well, I'm irked that your shop was irked. Ordering a different length stem is hardly an unusual step to take to tweak bike fit and it's a pretty easy swap to make. Suggesting that you change your fore/aft position instead, when they know you have knee issues, is just all kinds of wrong. I have to wonder whether you're going to get the assistance you need from that shop.

At this stage, given your various issues, I think you'd be well advised to find a good fitter in your area. As a starting place to finding one, check out the websites for the bike shops in your area. I'd be willing to bet that at least one of them either employs a fitter or can refer you to one if they carry any custom bike brands, e.g., Serotta, Moots, Independent Fabrication.

Here's one that I found just doing a brief search: http://www.trizilla.com/triathlon/pc/services.asp

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Thank you! The guys are nice enough and I get free tune ups and stuff since I bought the bike from them. But they aren't all that willing to really help me get the bike comfortable. Anyway, I did find a shop that has a guy who does bike fits. But since it's winter he isn't in with any kind of regularity. I called yesterday and they are leaving a message for him to call me back. If he doesn't call in a week or so then I'll try again. Thanks so much.
Gray

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Originally Posted by GraysonKelly

Thank you! The guys are nice enough and I get free tune ups and stuff since I bought the bike from them. But they aren't all that willing to really help me get the bike comfortable. Anyway, I did find a shop that has a guy who does bike fits. But since it's winter he isn't in with any kind of regularity. I called yesterday and they are leaving a message for him to call me back. If he doesn't call in a week or so then I'll try again. Thanks so much.
Gray

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Free tuneups for the first year or so is pretty standard practice, so it's not really an extra--they don't deserve extra credit for it. They should work with you for a proper fit, if for no other reason that you would be more likely to buy your next, and presumably upgrade, bike from them. I've had shops blow me off and I took my checkbook elsewhere. I know there are folks on TE from Pittsburgh, so maybe you can take a trip up there sometime (when it's warmer!)

I do agree that getting a proper fit should be your next step. Once you know what needs to be changed you can do what needs to be done and not have to futz around with this and that.

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Originally Posted by lunacycles View Post
Unless you have profound neck/back issues, you really shouldn't shoot for a position in which your handlebar is higher than your saddle, imo, unless your bike is designed for it (and yours isn't).Quote:
Originally Posted by jobob View Post
Why?
I agree, why?

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Having your bars higher than your saddle effectively reduces the amount of body weight that goes over the front wheel. Almost all stock bicycles (Rivendells might be the only true exception) are not designed for this kind of biased weight distribution. The result is that the bike does not handle as it should/was designed to, especially your steering. If you ride a well fitting bike that allows you to get lower without discomfort, a whole new world opens up. In addition, a conditioned body riding in a position that allows some drop from the saddle to the handlebar allows the chest to open up, and permits a more aerodynamic and aggressive position that responds more quickly and efficiently to changes in terrain. It tends to make the transition for in the saddle to out of the saddle easier and more natural. Your arms/upper body can actually contribute to the cycling process besides just handling the controls. Plus, you usually go faster.

A poster recently commented on how she switched her stem from the stock one to one that is 6cm long in order to fix her reach problem. She said it made her bike handle horribly, but she got used to it. OK. We can get used to anything, really, but my point is simply to state that this kind of "fix"--which is striving for the same goal as getting a stem with more rise--is on some level a compromise compared to what's possible as far as position goes for the average jane or joe the big bike company designs their bikes for. Unfortunately, if you are on the very small end of the spectrum, that often doesn't include you.

Riding with the vast majority of your weight over the back half of the bike can also create saddle problems, although there are certainly saddles designed for this kind of leisure riding.

A lot of small folks on smallish stock bikes that don't fit well end up in this rather upright position as it is more comfortable when compared to where they started. It is a very common way to alleviate the discomfort caused by an overly long reach--and sometimes the only way to get comfortable on a stock bike that almost fits. There is nothing wrong with that. I believe if you aren't comfortable, you won't be efficient on the bike, regardless of how you sit on the bike. But if you are comfortable and efficient, you will get more out of cycling.

And I have found women by and large prefer a higher front end/less drop from saddle to handlebar than men do. Including myself. Sage folks like Dr. Andy Pruitt often recommend a higher front end position for racers who feel they need to look like Tour de France racers but just can't find the sweet spot comfort wise, or who have incurred stress-related injuries by trying to force themselves into Lance's position without residing in Lance's body. There is a point at which coming up a bit at the front end makes a lot of sense. But there is a point at which it truly effects efficiency and handling. When the bar height exceeds the saddle height, I generally draw the line....unless it is absolutely necessary for anatomic or joint pain, and then I try to design the front end (head tube angle and fork offset) to accommodate it.

Wow that was wordy. Thanks for reading.

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Margo, what do you think of Eden's remark that shimming effects the braking effeciency (I think that is what she means by 'throw' but not sure).

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I think what she means is that there is less cable pulled compared to a brake lever that does not have the shim. But this doesn't affect braking efficiency in any meaningful way. I like to pull a lot of brake cable and have the shims on the brifters on one of my bikes, and have never noticed any kind of loss of braking efficiency. I think more brake efficiency is lost when my fingers are totally extended and trying to engage a brake lever. That's unpleasant. I think shims are a good solution for retrofitting Shimano brifters. Not having to shim anything, as the SRAM brifters allow, is even better:).

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Originally Posted by lunacycles

Wow that was wordy. Thanks for reading.

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Thanks for 'splaining! That was interesting. :)

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Originally Posted by jobob

Thanks for 'splaining! That was interesting. :)

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Yep thanks from me too. Very helpful :)

Yes that was an interesting explanation, and makes sense for this situation.

Of course I always think it's good to remember now and then that probably 90% or more of the world's active bicycle riders are neither leisure OR competitive riders- but are riding their bikes for basic transportation and for transporting things. Few of those people ride with their handlebars lower than their saddles- they ride mostly upright and they really lay on the miles on a daily basis. These are serious bike riders, not leisure riders (as most of us actually are). They would be bewildered and bemused by all our endless fussing about aerodynamics, knee position, CO2 cannisters, clipless shoes, aerobars, and carbon seatposts. :D I like thinking about this from time to time to put bike riding in perspective in my mind. ;)

Yes, and some of them even put baskets on their handlebars ;)

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Originally Posted by jobob

Yes, and some of them even put baskets on their handlebars ;)

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Yes, and they actually have ROOM to put baskets on them since their handlebars aren't 18" from the ground! :D ;)

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Of course I always think it's good to remember now and then that probably 90% or more of the world's active bicycle riders are neither leisure OR competitive riders- but are riding their bikes for basic transportation and for transporting things. Few of those people ride with their handlebars lower than their saddles- they ride mostly upright and they really lay on the miles on a daily basis. These are serious bike riders, not leisure riders (as most of us actually are).

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Good point. It occurred to me later I should have asterisked the whole spiel with some reference to this referring to traditional roadie positions. Frankly, I think if people are happy with their positions and loving their bikes, regardless of what style of riding they do, then there is definitely nothing to "fix.":)

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Originally Posted by lunacycles

Good point. It occurred to me later I should have asterisked the whole spiel with some reference to this referring to traditional roadie positions. Frankly, I think if people are happy with their positions and loving their bikes, regardless of what style of riding they do, then there is definitely nothing to "fix.":)

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Luna,
I appreciated all your advice on this. I knew that a lot of what I was going to get in the way of suggestions was going to be along the lines of the stuff you talked about. But it helps so much. I have read and reread all the posts, took out my bike and tried really hard to picture what you all were talking about. It helped a lot. I'm not an aggressive rider. I don't really like being in the drops...probably because I can't reach them comfortably. But I don't know what kind of rider I'll be until I get more comfortable and that really really helped that I could get all of your and other people's advice. I would say I'm a cross between a leisure/commuter/long-distance/stress relief/ because I love it rider. Not really sure there's a cookie cutter bike set up for that category...but I know from all of you that the bike needs to fit and feel good. The rest is up to me. And That's the part I really love about riding. So thank you and the rest of you for all your advice.
Have a great day!
Gray