The Economy

We have certainly tightened up our errands to be most efficient. I get sick of doing so many things in one trip, but I keep telling myself I have to do it that way.

We gave my Camry to my son to drive to Texas for his internship; that means my husband (What does DH stand for anyway?) now drives my son's old Civic since he commutes 35 miles to work. No option there. I'm a teacher so it is more important that my arrival is not dependent on traffic. Teachers are expected to be ready for the kids, no excuses!

We feel the education crunch for sure with 2 kids in college and my husband in grad school! Our best defense right now was to change the way our "savings" are handled in order to shield us more from taxes, which take our vacation money every DAMN year:mad: I'm hoping that in the next two years we will be able to breathe a little between paychecks. Ha!

I wish I felt that I could cycle to work, simply for the exercise; there again being a teacher I bring a lot, a lot, A LOT of stuff home. I also don't think the principal would appreciate me coming to work all sweaty. I figure I live 2 miles from work and wouldn't be saving that much gas. Thirty-five miles is a bit far for my husband to cycle. Although he does leave before the sun smiles on us each day to avoid sitting in traffic burning gas.

We are sweating around the house, even though he swears the air conditioner is on. I imagine we will wear a lot more clothing this winter to avoid higher fuel costs. Some people don't have heat at all, so we will live just fine if we are a little less than comfortable.

So far we haven't given up Starbucks yet; we've cut back, but not quit:D

Interesting comments from everyone. I enjoyed them.

I teach and my principal loves that I ride to work most days. It sets a great example for the kids. My ride is a little over two miles and I just don't ride very hard on the way to work, to avoid getting sweaty. I choose to ride up a big hill on the way home, so I'm always sweaty when I get home. :p

I have a rack and a bag on the back of my bike. When I bought the bag I took my Social Studies book with me, since it was my biggest textbook, to make sure it fit. Funny, we don't use that textbook series anymore.

I do evaluate whether or not I'm REALLY going to need to take certain things home.

V.

I'm an ER Vet. This used to be a crazy time at work, but it is very average now. I have definitely noticed a change in the number of people with call about pets that SHOULD be seen, but don't come after talking to us. As a result, my bonus has been lower, and my hours are less.

DH is a teacher. They made huge cuts in staff and are reorganizing. Most now are teaching out of their area of expertise... he is an art teacher. Next year 1/3 of his classes will be history? Sadly, the students will be the ones paying for this -- try as he might, he is not going to muster excitement or expertise on American History in the next 6 weeks.

We drive less and combine trips -- I'm looking to buy a commuter bike. Not replacing my car tho most would! We replaced light bulbs and got a more efficient heater.

Grocery shopping is hard for me -- could spend less, but at the cost of nutrition. I try to buy more things are on sale. Honestly, I've never paid much attention to how much each item costs.

I try not to buy my coffee daily -- 3x weekly is the new goal. Travel is down. I'm saving for a couple big trips so will likely cut out the smaller fun trips as a trade-off. Still stuffing retirement money into the funds at same rate, but have considered cutting back in order to get down payment on a home.

All in all, we really live fairly comfortably, just not extravagantly. We could be MUCH tighter, but life would be duller!:rolleyes:

Last year we took two 5,000 mile trips. This year, we're cutting back to one. ;)

Seriously, though, 2 trips was more a one-time thing. Son and I have been taking long car trips since he was little, because I want him to see the world, not just the inside of a classroom. This year might be our last, though. (He'll be 15 in November. gulp.) He's going to online high school this year, and will probably have a job in the fall (he's already a bat boy for a minor league baseball team, but that ends in September). So, he's going to start having a real life, without me, boo hoo, and so I don't know when we'll find the time to just take off and go like we're used to doing.

Gas prices have already curtailed many weekend trips.

I looked at hotel rooms outside NYC last night. (We're going to Vermont in September and we're going to see the Yankees play in Yankee Stadium since we'll be "in the 'hood".) Those hotel rates are a big ouchie and now I don't know what I'll cut out of the trip (4 weeks long) to make it work. We usually camp out at KOA cabins, to afford these trips. Gas will really take a bite out of things.

But, he only has one childhood, and I don't plan on cutting much else out of this trip for that very reason. It may be our last rodeo.

Karen

These different points of view are all interesting. Although we have made the changes I discussed in an earlier post, things really have never been better for us. My husband works for a company that makes a profit every quarter, He makes a great salary and gets unbelievable bonuses. While we could save a lot more, we haven't been willing to cut our lifestyle that much! I have to decide what to do with the money I left in the state retirement fund when I quit my teaching job. I don't qualify to get a pension now as I was 3 years short of having 20 years here and I withdrew my money from the retirement plan in AZ when we moved, so I can't count those years. We needed it to buy our house here and I do not regret that. If I leave the money in there until I'm 62, I know how much I'll get and it's OK. On the other hand, I feel like if I take it out and invest it myself, I could probably do better. My husband will probably work for at least 10 more years and I figure I have about 5-10 years of working in my new career when I finish school in 3 years. But, most of that will be part time. Also, if I take my pension, I only get about 1/4 of the Social Security I put in when I taught in AZ. because our pension is so high we don't participate in Social Security. One of the things that worries me is that if my husband dies while I am getting the pension, I can't get HIS SS income either and that is a considerable amount. He has plenty of insurance and a a decent 401K, but it pisses me off that the government thinks this is "double dipping," because I live in a state with good pensions for public employees.
We don't have any debt except for our house and the second mortgage we took to remodel. We sold our last house at the peak of the boom in 2005 and got this house for a decent price. We have spent a lot remodeling, but we plan on staying here another 10-12 years. Prices stay somewhat stable here, since it is a desirable town to live in. We spent a lot making our house energy efficient and it is paying off. Our gas and electric bills are half of our neighbor's.

I am single and will likely stay that way. No "DH" to augment my income.
I live off of my disability retirement and the small amount I make from a part time job.
I have a house that is badly in need of repair and I'm hoping to sell it and move in to town.
I have to do all my errands on one or two days, there is no going in to town for one thing only. I can't afford to drive to the gym just to go to the gym. I haven't been to the gym in ages.
Food and fuel prices are rising faster than my salary ever will. This is especially hard for people who live in rural areas.

The sampling of your poll is somewhat skewed. Cycling can be an expensive sport.
The answers you would get from the general populace are far different than those you'll get here.

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Originally Posted by zencentury

The sampling of your poll is somewhat skewed. Cycling can be an expensive sport.
The answers you would get from the general populace are far different than those you'll get here.

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I definitely agree with this. Folks who post at a minimum either live close enough to public internet (e.g. a library) or have a computer/internet connection at home. That, right there, skews the poll. Then you add in cycling as an expensive sport, and even more skew. I have lots of relatives who are hurting. The scary thing is that there isn't more out there about the people who are really hurting. I know they're out there. However, even in this group, most still think the economy is in bad shape and have made major changes (I know we have). That should tell us something...

CA

Like Zen, I'm single and it's just my income, which is nothing to brag about. What scares me is that I've already been living a very frugal life and I am not exaggerating when I say there isn't much else to cut back on. I don't have cable TV, my cell phone is a pre-paid that I never use, and I have dial-up internet. I don't smoke, I don't drink (much), I don't have a Starbucks habit, I rarely go out to dinner, and I shop at Grocery Outlet, which is the coolest grocery store ever (if you have one in your town, check it out!). I don't have air conditioning, last winter I kept my thermostat at 61 degrees, and I wash my clothes in cold and hang them to dry. I want to buy a new bike, but I guess I better get my priorities straight and make sure I can afford to heat my house next winter! I'm even a frugal cyclist. My Trek 1000 WSD (the cheapest Trek road bike) has 4,000 miles on it and I still have the original chain. And I've got 2,000 miles on my current tires. I got a $50 REI gift card for opening one of their credit cards and I'm going to use that to buy tires. Oh, and I always pay off my credit cards every month!

The main change I've made is doing errands after work when I'm already in town and pretty much not driving anywhere else if I can help it. I'm trying desperately to make it on $50 a week in gas, but I'm failing. I drive a Jeep Liberty and it gets horrible mileage. But I own it outright and don't have a car payment, so after running the numbers, it makes the most sense to just keep it. Plus I live in the mountains where it snows and I need 4 wheel drive. I would commute on my bike, but it's just not realistic. It's too far, too hilly, too dangerous, and takes too long. I live in a very rural area so public transportation is not an option either.

I also agree that this poll is probably skewed. I work for County government and my office is in the welfare building. Every morning, there is a line outside the door...and each week, it gets longer and longer. They open the doors at 8 am and my coworkers tell me people start lining up before 7:00. I've heard caseworkers talking about people who were in tears because they were so embarassed to be asking for assistance. I think a lot of folks out there are getting very desperate.

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Originally Posted by zencentury

I The sampling of your poll is somewhat skewed. Cycling can be an expensive sport.
The answers you would get from the general populace are far different than those you'll get here.

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*1. I've felt with few exceptions this is a DINK sport (double income, not a lot of kids) and a middle class or higher sport to boot. And I fear as a group (the sport) we don't deal with class issues well. :o

Most of us here are fairly educated and may have options and access to information others don't. Obviously all here have access to internet. :cool: which can save a lot.

I mean look at us here. A quick glance at this board and we're debating which Ti frame to get, which week long training camp to go to, this supplement or that one ... I just got off work where I've been talking to folks who debate whether to get gas for their work, food or medicine.

Yes we all have hard choices to make but most here have it fairly good.

If you think you're hurting consider how this is for others with lower income and or fewer options.

One thing I feel strongly about and not to politicize this thread is we have an opportunity which as a country we'd be fools to miss. I forget the article I read, think it was Will Durst, a comedian I like who talked about this well.

We have the chance to both help people and solve the climate crisis. If we don't take this chance we're fools and deserve whatever flood happens. Do I mean public works programs like the WPA that train people and energy retrofit the homes of those who can least afford to do that themselves? Maybe.

Do I mean entrepreneurs and small businesses take it up, make goo-gobs of money and create green jobs? Maybe.

Do I mean that we donate to charities and non-profits that provide bikes for those who can least afford them? Like here's one:

www.rubarbike.org

Maybe :rolleyes:

Do we translate all this info, bike safety tips and tricks to other languages and do outreach to other communities including invisible cyclists? Maybe.

Do I mean we have coalition with the disabled public who need safe transit options and public transportation as much or more than we do to create a huge movement that helps us both? Anyone here can be disabled in a heart beat so we should be working together. Maybe.

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Originally Posted by Trek420

Do I mean that we donate to charities and non-profits that provide bikes for those who can least afford them? Like here's one:

www.rubarbike.org

Maybe :rolleyes:

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And BikeWorks in Seattle: www.bikeworks.org

Well said Trek and Knott!!!!!!

This is a time when giving to others gets harder, and it's the most important time to remember it. Whatever the cause may be.

I TOTALLY agree with your points about time for change! Whatever that means to you, PLEASE make it know by VOTING!!! There won't be another chance like this. Things can and will get much worse if something isn't changed drastically.

Off my soap box!
Happy weekend everyone!:D

We have also been getting ready for a bad market. Doomsayers have been saying potential Depression, but for now it's a recession and we'll see how things go.

Our home is paid for, as are our cars. We had to do a lot of remodeling on the house and that has left us with some debt on a credit card, and we are working like crazy to get that paid off.

One of my side jobs is at an organic bakery & market. I work for organic produce :D and bring home about $50 worth every week. That would be the majority of our food bill as we're vegetarian (more vegan than tarian but we all have to cheat on cheese sometimes!). I also have a pretty good organic garden of my own going and have stocked up on jars so I can be canning things as those 34 tomato plants start producing. I'm freezing just about everything - broccoli, spinach, green beans, corn, shredded zucchini... The panicky side of me wonders what winter grocery costs will be when nobody can grow much and the powers that be can raise it all they want - we have to eat.

Other than that, just the usual cost-cutting methods. I'm an opinionated little snot so I'm not changing to CFL bulbs with their mercury content and constant flickering and buzzing. I HATE that! I'll use candles and hurricane lamps before I give up my incandescents.

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Originally Posted by Dogmama

Mr. Silver - I can tell you are concerned. Your post was time stamped 2:25 AM!

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I assure you that there are many things that concern Mr. Silver...but he was asleep at 2:25AM;) I think the time stamp is an anomaly of my/your computer set up...It was probably 5:25 AM...

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Originally Posted by grey

One of my side jobs is at an organic bakery & market. I work for organic produce :D and bring home about $50 worth every week. That would be the majority of our food bill as we're vegetarian (more vegan than tarian but we all have to cheat on cheese sometimes!)

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In Tucson, that would be about 3 bell peppers, a dozen zucchini & a head of lettuce!:p Seriously, I do still try to buy organic because it's better for the planet and for us.

I'm glad this topic is here. I often forget that while I'm complaining about my luxury problems, there are people who are really struggling. I'm going to be on the look out for ways to help in my community.

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Originally Posted by smilingcat

As for riding it out, I haven't bought into that idea. Why not dump it and wait until it drops then buy it back?

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Smilingcat, I hear ya'. The problem with "market timing" is it assumes that you are sitting on top of the market to execute your moves perfectly. This is far from reality for anyone but a floor trader.

I'll let you do the math (importing daily data on the Dow from YahooFinance into an excel worksheet). I just did this and here's what it reveals:

50 Years Ago, On 7/7/1958, the Dow was at 481.85. Yesterday, it closed at 11,288.53.

In the last 50 years, the 10 single largest DAILY gains were:
Date

10/15/2002- 4.80%
7/29/2002- 5.41%
7/24/2002- 6.35%
3/16/2000- 4.93%
9/8/1998- 4.98%
10/29/1987 - 4.96%
10/21/1987- 10.15%
10/20/1987- 5.88%
8/17/1982- 4.90%
5/27/1970- 5.08%

If those 10 days (out of 12,585 days) were "0" because you were sitting on the sideline, "your Dow" would have been 6,464. The cumulative effect of ONLY THOSE 10 DAYS accounted for nearly half the return on the Dow in the last 50 years.

Intuitively, the idea of timing makes sense...but for all practical purposes, it's almost impossible for ordinary people to do.

TO BE FAIR: If you also take out the worst 10 days as well, "your Dow" would be > 15,000! But, I usually hear about a bad market day when I get home...when I've already incurred the loss...then, it's too late...