Oh my, that Dama is one beautiful bike. I'm not a huge fan of pink ordinarily, but that bike needs pink handlebar tape!
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Oh my, that Dama is one beautiful bike. I'm not a huge fan of pink ordinarily, but that bike needs pink handlebar tape!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadBunner
I snipped a bit -- saved stuff I was planning to address...
First tidbit is the reach -- that elbow to fingertips thing. And I don't know what you mean by the "middle of the bars" exactly. So, running out to the garage to visit MY bike (thanks for the excuse) I see that the tip of my finger nail comes to about that distance from what would be the center of the tube that is the handlebar, so I'm guessing that's where you're talking about. I also don't know for sure what you mean by "an inch from that mark." If you mean that the tip of your finger is an inch from the center of the bar, then you're not that far off that "2cm" mark -- the difference is about 1/4 inch. I'm betting they can fix that.
The stem -- my bike came with a 100mm stem. FIRST, we changed the angle of it. When I decided I should have a shorter one, as well as that angle change, my bike shop switched it out for me, putting a 90mm stem on. From what I'd seen here, I thought they came in "even numbers" -- like 80 was going to be my next step. Maybe you can have a 70mm stem instead of a 60?
To go with this reach thing -- you say that when you're on the bike, your elbows have the bend, but you're more comfortable with your arms straight. I don't remember reading about what you have been riding before this bike. I found myself "degenerating" into the straight arm position a lot at first on my road bike. I had to actively think about keeping my arms "loose."
Your bike guy wants to work with you and make you happy on this bike -- you say he wants to have lots of time for you. When I bought my bike, on a Saturday, I was told that same thing. Come back another day for more detailed fitting. Your dude has told you to come back a lot sooner than my dude: mine said ride like this for a couple of hundred miles. When we met him, we talked about my old bike, a Specialized Expedition -- upright, suspension fork and seat post. I told him what I did NOT like about it, and that I felt like I'd be happier and get more power with my butt up higher, on a road bike.
I'm about 5'3.5" and at the time weighed about 220. EVERY OTHER BIKE SALESMAN I talked to wanted to put me on a hybrid or comfort bike, even though I was saying I don't like my hybrid/upright bike. This guy took me to road bikes. I had ridden a Specialized Dolce in a 51. It was crowded. REALLY crowded. Granted, there was a lot of me to put into that cockpit. We started out looking at those, and then bike dude took me to the Allez. He had me ride a 52. This was love! It had a double crank, and I was interested in a triple, so he suggested the Roubaix. Found one of those, on clearance -- a past year, you know, in my size, carbon frame, better components, SAME PRICE. I didn't even ride it!
Bike guy said take it home, put your pedals on it (I had SPD pedals on my Expedition) and ride for a couple of weeks. He said I WOULD be uncomfortable for a while, changing position so much, and that I should build a bit of strength before we made changes. I changed the saddle almost immediately, then changed it again. Then I changed gloves, and then we changed the handlebar angle. The last change was the stem -- from the 100 to the 90. I've been really happy on my bike ever since. Oops, we added some shims in the brakes to make them easier to reach.
On the other side of the equation, I spent quite a bit of time with strengthening my body. Upper back work to help me keep my shoulders down while riding, and core work to help me hold my body up without relying so much on my hands/arms. That was harder!
Anyway, with all this -- your bike dude said come back when we can spend some serious time together to make this bike work for you. He did some things to get you started. I'm thinking that the thing to do this weekend is to ride your bike. If it's got clipless pedals on it, and you don't have shoes yet, then go find some platform pedals to get going. If it's got NO pedals, put some kind of pedals on it and ride! You'll have more idea of what isn't right -- on you and on the bike -- after a couple of rides, I think.
BUT
Ride to enjoy your new bike. Don't ride for speed, or great distance (it's remarkable how many miles you can put on while tootling around in a subdivision. one night we rode abou 15 miles without ever being more than about half a mile from home) You'll find out what needs fixing without focusing on problems. Sounds like your boyfriend rides, and if he comes with you, he probably knows things like how to tweak your saddle at least, and probably carries tools. (not that he'll be able to make it truly comfy if it's like sitting on a brick, corners up)
Feel her handling, feel how your legs feel, how her gearing works, etc. When your shoulders start to hurt, think about putting them down and relaxing your arms, and think about holding your body with your body. Notice what only you can/need to fix too, and give the bike a break on that part.
Oops, I'm supposed to be at work in twelve minutes! Better get a move on!!!
Karen in Boise
Me either. BTW, the pink on the bike is a really pale shade and none of the pink bar tape I tried looked good with it. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by lph
Kano, thanks for all of the suggestions. Originally I gave the stock Onix and the Trek on the same day about 30 min each and definitely had a preference then. I remember I had pain in my hands/arms and felt less "safe" with the Onix but no pain and felt very secure on the Trek (plus I rode the Trek after the Onix so the pain was not endurance related). I'm going to give my bike about a 30 min ride on Sunday and see if this is still the same or not since the handlebars were changed.
Talking to some people, I'm beginning to think the difference between the two is that the Dama has a lower front than the Trek. Being a newbie I'm naturally more comfortable a little more upright. I have a feeling that with shims and maybe a slight stem change, the Dama is probably okay for me just I'm not used to that position.
I guess it comes down to whether I'd rather have a better bike for the $ that I'd probably get used to (but maybe not) or if I'd rather go with something straight off the bat which is comfortable.
I understand your feeling -- it's hard to know you can count on the bike working for you in the long term! I do think it's not a bad idea to see what the guy can do for you on Monday. Maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised!
Enjoy your ride tomorrow!
Karen in Boise
I don't have an opinion on these two bikes but I wanted to second this:
I have a 50 mm stem on my road bike to make it fit me and it sucks. I mean, it's rideable, I've gotten used to it, I don't hate it, and it's a whole lot better than not quite being able to reach the brakes. (Or feeling like I can't quite reach the brakes.) But it is far from ideal and I would not buy a new bike if that was what it took to make it fit me.Quote:
Sorry about the bike, buying a new bike should be a fun experience. That said, I think a 60 mm stem will be too short. So if that is what it takes to fit the bike, get a different bike.
Some people don't mind very short stems, and some of them will tell you that it doesn't matter, that fit is all that matters, so go with the short stem if you need to. But you're buying a new bike so you shouldn't need to. And if you do need to go shorter than about 80 mm, I would do an awful lot of riding on the bike with that stem before deciding not to return the new bike.
Good luck. They both sound like great bikes. I test rode an Orbea year before last and loved it, but it just doesn't fit my needs right now.
Yes, a 50 and a 60mm DO 'suck'. They make your bike steer kind of wobbly. I tried them to fix my reach problem, and had to go back to a 70 in order to steer straight. My bike originally came with a 90mm stem. I've struggled with reach problems for 2 years. Better to start with a bike that fits well.Quote:
Originally Posted by xeney
I absolutely love my Onix Dama. But with that being said, just because it's the bike for me does not mean it's the bike for you. Fit and comfort will make the difference between pure riding enjoyment and...well...maybe not riding at all. Don't settle for something that's not right for you. Talk to your LBS, but don't let them 'convince' you of something that just doesn't feel right.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadBunner
I really hope you get this resolved - as a poster said earlier, this should be a totally fun, exciting experience - not a panic situation.
Good Luck!!!!!!!!
DO NOT KEEP A BIKE THAT YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE ON. BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. DO NOT RIDE A STEM SHORTER THAN 7CM. Yes, shorter bars, stem, etc. can make it kinda sorta work, but they compromise the handling. If you wanna get more aero later on the trek you can always lower or lengthen the stem.
I think you have two options, try the smaller orbea (at 5 foot 2 I can't imagine you NOT on a bike with 650c wheels, I am 5 foot 4 and require either a 24" front or 650 wheels), or return it for the trek. It seems to me that you would have better luck with a return by bringing it in sooner (while is still 'new') rather than later, so if it were me I would return it today and buy the trek. Fit is more important than componentry.
HEAR HEAR! A few days of returning the bike and getting the one that fits will so be worth years of riding comfort!Quote:
Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl
hey, everyone!
So I took the Onix out for a 40 minute spin today. Good news is that the situation is not as dire as I once thought. I felt safe on it (as opposed to before the handlebars were switched). I now feel that the reach is probably okay for me. Shims would be great but I'm won't be gunning for a shorter stem. However, after riding for about 15 minutes, I get an achy feeling in my arms from my biceps area all the way down to my hands. If I stop for a bit it goes away, then it returns after about 10-15 minutes.
Do you think this is probably due to the lower front of the Onix vs. the Madone? I rode the Madone for 30 min and never had any pain or discomfort in my hands or arms.
I will say, this is one sweet bike. It's nice and smooth and shifts like a dream. I will miss the Ultegra SL if I end up going with the Madone.
I have some thinking to do tonight. In your experience for a newbie should everything be perfect right off the bat? BF once again says that it's probably newbie "growing pains" and after a month or so my arms, back, core will get stronger (I'm a runner now so have no upper body strength to speak of) and I'll be so happy I kept the Onix since I love it more than the Trek. I feel, as many of you have pointed out, that I should go with something comfortable and the Madone can be lowered as I get stronger if I so desire.
Is there anything specific I should ask the LBS tomorrow? Any new thoughts to help me decide what to do?
I did not have the chance to shop for my first road bike (and only road bike so far). It was given to me and I had no say. After over 10,000 km on it I changed the handlebars from 42s to 38s with a short reach. It felt weird, but definitely so much better than before. I did not know better for the first two years I had the bike.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadBunner
It`s certain that strength in the core area makes a big difference. I notice it at the start of every season, although this year after a winter of intense running it's not as much of an issue. My core is much stronger, but my shoulders still hurt a bit. It will be about gone in 300 km / a few weeks.
But should you keep a bike that's not working so well for you *in hopes* that your body will get stronger? I am not sure that this is the best decision.
Achy feeling in arms and hands says to me that your weight is too far forward. Again, the reach problem.
My slight reach problem and forward weight imbalance gives me pain in my left elbow every time i ride. No matter what. Even when my core strength is better, the elbow still hurts the longer i ride. Stops hurting when I rest, comes back again after 10 minutes of riding. It's not going to go away on this bike. I've learned to live with it, but am hoping my new custom bike will cure that by having my balance better centered.
Roadbunner,
I've read the entire thread, and personally, I'd go with the Madone. It sounds like it fits you better with less tweaking. I don't know anything about Madones, though -- is there a model with Ultegra you could get instead, if you really like the Ultegra on the Onix? Or does that put it into an even higher price bracket?
I'd always go with the better fitting bike FRAME geometry before anything else. Everything else can be changed. The frame cannot.
Good luck, and keep us posted!
Emily
I concur with the previous two posts. I think you are positioned too far forward on the bike, in a misguided attempt to shorten the reach, putting too much weight on your arms and hands.
As mentioned already, you can always lower and lengthen the stem, but you can't do anything about a frame that doesn't fit as time goes on. Get the bike that fits now. The new 105 is supposed to be as good as the old ultegra, so its nothing to sneez at.