All good and correct points. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Koronin
Lots of great points brought up in this thread. There are some really experienced riders on TE.
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All good and correct points. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Koronin
Lots of great points brought up in this thread. There are some really experienced riders on TE.
Yeah - I can certainly see that as well, based on marketing. Good point Owlie! I forget about that power since I try not to buy into it (and it doesn't work for me anyway) :D. I'm glad to hear that you try to find the RIGHT bike that FITS, regardless of the target market for the bike itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Owlie
SheFly
uh, Seajay, don't argue with me about height, read the statistics: I didn't make it up
http://www.disabled-world.com/artman...ht-chart.shtml
Thanks, SheFly! I do try. :)
And then of course there are the taller women who DO need WSD frames (like the woman who came in to the shop the other day looking for a road bike who was 5'9" with a short torso and short arms), and there's not much out there for them either. I think Trek and Specialized go past a 54 in WSD, and maybe Fuji does too, but no one ever gets those sizes. I did try to see if she could manage a men's frame in one size smaller, but then the saddle-to-bar drop would have been too steep. (She didn't like the color, either. Just as well.)
I think we can all agree that geometry and the individual's build determines what we should ride, regardless of label. I just wish bike shop employees (as a whole) were better educated on the matter, but I think many of them either drink the marketing kool-aid, just get lazy, or are male and have no clue because most of what's on the shop floor will work for them, or some combination of the above. I do love where I work, because there are four women who work there and we each have different fit needs--one NEEDS a WSD road frame (though she's fine with unisex mountain bikes), two of us can ride either as long as we get the measurements right (and we're different heights), and one who absolutely can't ride WSD frames at all, so we have real-life examples if need be.
SheFly, can I come ride with you? (I'm slow, and doubly so on my cross bike, just as a warning. ;)) I'm the slowpoke in the group I ride with, and although most of the time they're good about matching my pace or pushing me just a little bit, I feel bad for slowing them down, so I ride alone much of the time. I'm in awe of the women who ride with the fast group of guys, and I can see how that would be intimidating to the average woman, but let them ride their ride and you ride yours. (I know it's easier said than done. Been there.)
Of course, where I work, we tried to make the shop rides more...beginner-friendly, I guess. Less for hammerheads-only. And then no one turned up. I tried to see if they'd be willing to do a beginner-friendly bike path ride separately, but to no avail.
Um, no. 64" is 5'-4", not 5'-3".Quote:
Originally Posted by Seajay
I suspect that WSD bikes might have been created at that urging of shop owners who got tired of having to swap out wide handlebars for narrow, long stems for short, and of course shim the brake levers for smaller hands. It's easier if the bike already comes with those changes made, and many women actually do need those changes. For those who don't, there are unisex bikes. Many shops will have them in stock, unbuilt. Not every bike is out on the shop floor.
(I have to say, I love the modern style of stem. I'm a short-torso woman (5'-8") who has always had to swap to a shorter stem. In older road bikes with quill stems, it took more than an hour. With my new road bike, purchased last year, it took about 5 minutes.)
As for shops being welcoming or not, my biggest peeve is when they assume that I'm a newbie simply because I'm female. All the sales clerks have to do is ask a few questions to determine my level of experience (riding longer than some of them have been alive). I think the least welcoming shop I've ever been in was in Vancouver somewhere. Despite the fact that I was the one actually walking around examining the bikes, they only talked to my husband and ignored me completely.
I try to take the same attitude as SheFly, although I am clearly not at her level! I ride with a couple of friends who are slower than me, because I want them to enjoy riding. I also enjoy having my DH or other males push me some of the time. I don't do most group rides because of the phenomena described, and I am lucky I found a group that has the same philosophy as me.
Now, I just need to get to the rides more this year.
Owlie - absolutely YES! To me, it isn't about the pace of the ride - it's about the camaraderie and supporting other women who WANT to ride. There are days I can go out and do a fast ride with the boys, and other days when I can go out and do a slower-paced ride. Either works for me, as long as I am on my bike :D.
Here in the metro Boston area, the club I belong to started a weekly women's ride open to ANY women who want to ride (i.e., you don't have to be a member of our club). The ride meets at the SAME place every week, and follows the SAME route every week. This allows us to ensure that the women know where they are going. We also offer several different speed/ability groups from beginner (never ridden in a group/paceline, typically 12-14 mph), 14-16 mph, 16-18 mph, and a fast group over 18. All rides, with the exception of the fast ride, are NO DROP. And if someone DOES get dropped, because all rides follow the same route, they get picked up by the ride behind them (we leave fastest group to slowest group). Each group has a ride leader and a sweep, who are typically club members. The ride runs from beginning of May to the end of August, and we typically have 30-40 women show up. It's pretty awesome.
I share this, because I think it is a good model. We are moving into our 5th or 6th year of this ride, and haven't really changed anything about it. If anyone is interested in starting something like this, I'm happy to discuss. All it takes is a little organization.
So, come ride! Just let me know when.
SheFly
I lead a couple of B paced rides out of our local bike shop, Saturday, Sunday & Wednesday early evening. At the end of last season I started a Ladies Social ride which I do after the Sunday B ride since that route is a bit shorter than Saturdays. This ride is aimed for women who ride hybrid, comfort or even a beginner road bike. The route is 7-10miles at a very relaxed pace. I received a good response and will begin it at the beginning of the season this year, probably the 1st weekend in April.
My dilemma is that when the shop mentions this ride to lady customers the spouse, boyfriend or whatever male is with them asks "oh can't men join in?" Ugh! I hate turning people away but I thought it would be nice to have just one ride of all ladies especially this type of ride where I don't want them to get intimidated. I even change my bike from road to fitness for this reason. So extending this to men who want a relaxed pace ride will have to be given some thought.
other opinions are welcome.
When the Luna chicks have their RLAG nights there is an unofficial guys ride that has evolved because the significant others show up and it is a woman only clinic...Maybe you could ask the shop to reply "there will be a concurrent mens' ride if someone will lead it!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo-n-NY
One of the local clubs holds a women-only ride, but it's geared strictly for beginners. The assumption is that anyone taking it will graduate to the general club rides after. Which is kind of a shame, because they set a minimum speed limit on those rides and not everyone is strong enough to maintain those speeds.
She-Fly,Quote:
Originally Posted by SheFly
I live in the Boston area and am looking for friendly group rides. I've ID'd a couple I want to try this spring, what club puts on this ride?
I guess my biggest pet peeve is the overly feminine design of both the bikes and the clothing. I do need a WSD bike, (and I'm above average height) but I put off buying one for years because I hated the color schemes. I finally found one that I like and now I am happy and comfortable riding for hours.
A lot of the apparel I see for women though is so overly girly. I like classic styles and often end up with men's because I just don't like the women's. I do better with shorts although I've noticed a trend lately in designing matching pinkish shorts to go with the pinkish jerseys. Also, many women's jerseys are so short. I would like to lift my arms up over my head (say when putting my bike on my bike rack) without showing off my belly button. I think maybe they are designing the apparel for the men to buy for their (fantasy) woman, not for women to buy. I mean after all, look at the way some of the models are posed (Check out Giordana)
It's like the bike industry thinks that everything I wear or ride has to scream, "I'm a girl!!!!" (yes, girl, not a woman, how often do women dress head to toe in pink? Mostly that's 2-12 year olds) As if it isn't apparent enough.
Ha, ha. Imagine a woman going to work dressed head to toe in a pink suit with a purple blouse, pink shoes and a white and purple briefcase and that's the equivalent of WSD in the bike industry.
Kernyl - this is the NEBC Tuesday Women's ride. You can find more information here: http://nebc.us/rides/tuesday-night-womens-ride/. Sign up for the Google group to get ride announcements, etc. It is really well run, very welcoming, and a good way to get into, and progress your riding through the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kernyl
Also, the short jersey issue isn't just in women's jerseys. I race, and have worn men's shorts/jerseys that do the same thing. It's way I will often race in a skin suit for some disciplines instead :).
SheFly
Are there enough women to suggest a second group for those who are no longer beginners, but are not ready to graduate to the general club ride? As mentioned, we offer several different groups on our women's rides, and get people into each different group every week.Quote:
Originally Posted by nuliajuk
SheFly
Thank you tealtreak, my husband has thought of that and we are giving it some thought. I am going to play the ride by ear when it begins and listen to conversation amongst the ladies. This whole idea was mine as in my internet travels I have seen ladies rides like the Luna Chicks, Pedal Chicks etc. and thought it to be a fun idea. I already lead a couple of mixed road bike rides.Quote:
Originally Posted by tealtreak
Thanks for the info SheFly!