Oooh Lise a toy boy. That could be fun - maybe not serious - but fun. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Lise
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Oooh Lise a toy boy. That could be fun - maybe not serious - but fun. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Lise
thought the first) We have newlywed friends - hip NY thirtysomethings, an artist and a chef, who are now opening a restaurant together - who met on an online dating site, don't know which one. As packed and social as NY is, a lot of grad students we knew were trying to link online. These two seem very good for each other - just to share another online success story. :)
thought the second) I had a horrid love life, specializing in a combination of pretty/empty/criminal. The initial sexual connection completely blinded me to the actual mess that was in front of me. First of all Providence sent me some great men friends who patiently taught me to be my real self in male company. Then just before I met the DH, I heard someone on the radio - methinks it was Joseph Campbell - say that in the first few hours and days of a relationship, one is forging a contract of how the relationship will work, and that it is almost impossible to go back and re-write terms, though we are tempted in the first glow to let many things "slide." I really thought about that in the beginning of the next relationship and we've been together for about 20 years - not always easy, but always real and still very passionate. :p
Ha! I am laughing at the "pretty/empty/criminal", because it so well identifies some of the past amours of mine! Argh, the stories we could tell. I, too, have been blessed in the past 5 years with some really good men friends. Loving them is what made me even consider dating men. As I think back on the things I let slide early on with the last guy I was with, I realize that contract was firmly in place from the second date. It was a useful experience, and something to learn from.Quote:
Originally Posted by latelatebloomer
And back to the athletic dept--I went x-c skiing today in the gorgeous 8" of fluffy snow. Some better person than I had gone first, and laid down tracks I could ski in all around the lovely golf course right on the shore of Lake Michigan. So happy was I.
Driving home, I heard funny noises on the R rear side of the car. Stopped to get gas. Had a flat tire. Filling the tire from the hose at the station, I thought I would freeze. I really was scared. The temps were dropping, sun was setting, the station's on a windy corner, and my clothes were still wet in spots from falling over in the snow (I'm not much of a skier!). I was dressed appropriately for outdoor exercise, but not for crouching down next to the car, trying to fill the tire. My hands were in pain, and took a long time to warm up. Still tingling. I'm buying those down mittens now. I was wearing my warmest winter gloves, and it felt like I had nothing on my hands.
I hope the tire stays full with the air I put in...the Fix-a-Flat was frozen solid in my trunk. I'm warming it up now, and will go back out to check the tire. I'm now wearing several layers of warm, dry clothes. I saw several cyclists trying to navigate the frozen slush and sliding cars. Looks very dangerous. I wish they'd stay off the city streets when it's like this. If any of you are out in conditions like this, please be very, very careful. Lise
And sometimes even that's not enough. Back before cell phones I didn't want to give out my home number to an online guy until I'd met him. One guy was so affronted that I didn't trust him with my phone number that he used my email address and some software from a private investigator friend of his to track down my full name and address . . . just to prove that he could. :mad: Funnily enough, and much to his surprise, that did not endear him to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by carback
Although I never really felt threatened by this guy, I'm totally with carback about being careful. Besides the phone numbers and the meeting in public places, also think about using a secondary easy-to-trash email address for your online dating activites.
A friend's trying to get me back into the online dating world again. (I try every 5 years or so; my online experiences - not so good). This time I'm even thinking of getting a pay-as-you-go cell phone so that I don't have to give anyone my real cell phone number to start with. My real cell phone number is dearer to me than even my home number these days!
Yes, I have many friends with good online dating experiences, so I know it's possible. I just want to minimize my risks because my loony quotient unfortunately seems to be higher than most. :eek:
Cathy
"loony quotient", I love it. Disposable cell phones, e-mail addresses, ah technology. the things we do for love. Gotta say I haven't had any problems with "loony". Dumb luck? Maybe I'm not looking hard enough.
Ok, fess up TE gals, do you Google your dates?
I'm told it's very much the thing in the 20-30 something set.
Ooooh, I didn't think of Googling my date! (no doubt because I'm 45) Update: The date for tomorrow is off, his car broke down. But he sounded genuinely regretful, and wants to reschedule. The 27 year hasn't written back. My computer crashes 9 out of 10 times I try to log onto match.com. Message from God? I hope not! :eek:
:p L.
I really don't see the issue with giving out your cell phone number. If you don't want to answer it... you don't. And... people can find out where you live if they really try... they don't always need a cell phone number to do it.Quote:
This time I'm even thinking of getting a pay-as-you-go cell phone so that I don't have to give anyone my real cell phone number to start with. My real cell phone number is dearer to me than even my home number these days!
I understand being safe... but heck... you can see who is calling and ignore them.
I actually had a date google me before we met....we sat down to have drinks and when I started to talk about stuff she tried hard to pretend she didn't already know some info about me....then she finally 'fessed up....btw, we didn't have second date....despite a number of "dates" 2+ years, I'm still looking. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trek420
What is "Googling" your date? I know what the Google search engine is, but how does one do that with potential dates? I'm learning a lot here.
Yasmin - Googling your date is pretty much what it sounds. You search for your date's name using the Google search engine. Remember to put quotes around the name, for example "John Doe".
And fess up folks, when was the last time you Googled yourself!?
KSH - with the cell phone it's not a physical threat thing. If I can recognize someone's number, I can choose not to answer. However, lots of folks, including my family, have their numbers blocked, which means I have to pick up calls on my cell phone that are unidentified. So, I'd rather have a separate phone that I know is only dating-related; gives me the option of not answering if I don't want to.
bcipam - This one sentence struck a chord with me. When I met my husband, I was into cycling, was deadly serious about racing, and totally loved my life. He admired that in me, as he was into athletics, also (basketball). But as we dated and time went on, I did was I thought I was supposed to do as a woman who loves a man, and I slowly gave up cycling to mold myself into his lifestyle (not mine). About a year and a half ago, after being married nearly ten years (eleven now) and three gorgeous kids, it suddenly struck me what I had done -- I gave up the biggest part of myself. Nothing particularly "wrong" with that, but on a women's lib standpoint, I shouldn't have had to do that, and it almost made me angry that it was so taken for granted I would change MY life, and that he didn't change his. So I grabbed the bull by the horns and started riding again, and now I'm seriously considering racing again. Sadly, although I know he is proud of me for sticking to it and for getting my body back, he still doesn't completely understand the sacrifice I made for him and now I feel that he looks at me differently....almost like he doesn't know how to "take" me these days, being this "liberated" woman and all.Quote:
Originally Posted by bcipam
Quote:
Originally Posted by BikeMomma
I don't think it has anything to do with "womens' lib" or being "liberated" ... I think it's human nature to get so involved with pleasing a mate and putting one's passions aside that ANYONE, male or female, parent or not, can lose part of themselves in a relationship. Certainly, there is some societal conditioning involved, no denying that. There are plenty of men out there who get involved with being a provider, or trying to please thier partners that they too lose parts of themselves and the thing that give them joy. And yep - when one partner starts to recover that sense, it can be quite a shock to the other half! Especially if things have gotten complacent and routine. The trick is to find a place where you can honor yourself and your passions, and not become a selfish person within the relationship.
Call me a reformed feminist but I equate women's lib and feminism with a lot of negativity . I prefer to look at the needs of men AND women - while inherently different creatures, both have feelings, needs, desires and passion that need to be respected. Both suffer from imbalances in the male/female scheme of things in modern society.
just my two cents, as usual, take it or leave it.
Irulan
Yasmin asks "And fess up folks, when was the last time you Googled yourself!?"
OMG, I'm surprised you don't all show up at my door sometime. Let me know first if you do, I'll try to clean up the hovel a bit.
and tomgrrl, she must have found out that bit about that you sleep with cornish game hens and can't eat anything that begins with the letter "g" unless it's at the far right hand side of the plate? Just kidding you, really I am.
And anyway we know about the cornish game hens and won't serve you gefilte fish at any TE events. We like you a lot but don't run for Senate because the Google images with you, Liberache and Fidel Castro? I think it's done in Photoshop, really I do but it'll just ruin the Senate bid.
and tomgrrl, was the no 2nd date because she googled you? or because she googled you and then was rude and non-reactive and not listening to what you said (how rude. that's like you get to interview William Shakespear and "oh whatever, I've read all about you"), or because she was picking her teeth with the parasol from the drink? ;-)
And googleing myself? There's some major porn star with the same unusual first name as mine. She's not me, really!
I keep pinned up on my pod at work a snippet of a TTY tape of a conversation that ends:
"and can I get your name?"
"TREK420? (insert real first name here)"
"OMG have I reached a wrong number heee heee, have a real sexy day"
"Uh, yeah, and thank you for calling da' phone co, bye bye SKSK GA."
And regarding the balance thing, I'm tending towards what Irulan sed. And I'm a totally unreformed feminist. I think the goal is balance and that's difficult to acheive in any relationship and especially for families with kids, working...there are only so many hours in the day.
And let's face it gals we all love a sport that takes a lot of time. I may or may not ride today, but I will clean and lube and check my bikes. If there was anyone here other than my dog would she resent that? Even my dog would rather I was walking her.
Bikemoma, I can identify with the team sports thing, with my ex for the last 3 years or so of our relationship I was a "football widow", yep, she played on a womens team. It's called pro but so far nobody gets paid or paid much or paid enough in my book to take hits like that but anywho. I went to the games, practices etc, good lil' football "wife".
I've heard football refered to as 'the crack cocaine of team sports". I don't play team sports at all, if there's a ball involved in the sport I can and will s*&^ at it. Yeah, I throw and catch like a girl, go figure. But aparently for sporty folk the intensity of the camraderie of football is addictive.
By then I'd rediscovered my love of cycling and the funny thing is she rekindled that. Also was well on my way to my goal of black belt in Aikido...but I went to the games. Did I resent it on a sunny day I could be rideing? Or that I was missing my own Aikido training? Heck yeah. Did I do anything about it like take time for myself? Nope.
My bad.
I don't think we'd be together even had I carved out time for myself but it's about trying to find a balance and communication I think.
It's OK Trek, it was LL18 that mentioned googling yourself...good idea though!
As far as a woman shaping her life around a man, TELL ME ABOUT IT!!! I've done it 3 times. When will I learn. Partly I think it's in-built. How many men do you know who reshape themselves around a woman? I told my husband ages ago that if we end I'm not playing that tune anymore. I'm curious to know what happens in same-sex relationships. I know one couple (men) who were together for 25years until one died of a ruptured aorta, very sad. But in that instance it was still one person adjusting to another. Is it more a matter of "givers & takers"?
Trek...you've partly answered this question for me anyway. When I look back I get pretty peed at myself for being so "giving" ie changing more for them than they do for me. It's my own fault really.
Yasmin wrote "As far as a woman shaping her life around a man, TELL ME ABOUT IT!!! I've done it 3 times. When will I learn. Partly I think it's in-built."
We're wired that way. Possibly if we wern't nurturing humans would not have survived. If men weren't out there hunting mastadons we would not have survived either. So it was all essential at some time. Not that women can't hunt mastadons and men can't pick berries but we get the message that society dissaproves.
And we get it so young.
Off season I'm in the dojo. Today was open training, just show up and work on...whatever. Depends on who's there.
So I'm working with our visiting student and on the other side there's a little girl, maybe 9 and her parents. She plans to go to school tomorrow with one of our black belts and do a demo for her class. Cute huh?
Her parents are very encourageing but she's so nervous, hardly moves, and won't kiai (yell) or make a sound at all.
Thinking she could use some encouragement from a gal I go over and tell her "see this?" (Trek points at belt) "Sensei (teacher) gave it to me because I'm loud. When I don't know what to do or whether it's my right foot or left I make a lot of noise"
We talked about that it's ok for women and girls to be loud, and to be strong and throw big guys around like rag dolls, it's ok to make mistakes and not to worry about it.
By the end I think I saw a smile and she was throwing the black belt she's borowing hard. But still would not make a sound. These messages are so deep.
"How many men do you know who reshape themselves around a woman?"
I think it's different for men. And I hate to generalize but I think some men reshape themselves but in other ways.
Some of the techs I work with complain loudly of the hours, overtime and time away from their families. But ask them "you could decline OT, are you willing to give up the 'vette, the vacation home, or live with less?" "no".
"I told my husband ages ago that if we end I'm not playing that tune anymore."
I'm curious if you feel that reshapeing yourself is endangering the relationship, why not find a way to let the real Yasmin out BEFORE it ends? Could be even better than before? I'm just asking. Don't know what's right.
"I'm curious to know what happens in same-sex relationships."
So am I ;-) Women, who can figure them out?
"I know one couple (men) who were together for 25years until one died of a ruptured aorta, very sad. But in that instance it was still one person adjusting to another. Is it more a matter of "givers & takers"?"
Sorry to hear about your friends.
Speaking as I do for all gay people .... not ..... I think that our relationships may be more fluid because we don't have ridid generalization about gender roles. You're free to sorta work that out yourself or should be.
On the other hand individuals can be of themselves just as rigid: take my ex, please...she didn't want me to do laundry, ever. She kinda resented that she had to do it but would not let me. Alrighty then.
Well, 3 years later here I sit fully clothed, laundry going in the background.
The goal is some fluidity, back to cycling analogies. I've never ridden a tandem but what I've read is this, that both pedal together but on a tandem when the captain tires the stoker pitches in, when the stoker is tired the captain works a little harder, when both are tired, stop for lunch? Feel free to correct me V?
Hopefully with communication it's not always one person who gives or takes, can be fluid. At least that's what I'd like.
"Trek...you've partly answered this question for me anyway. When I look back I get pretty peed at myself for being so "giving" ie changing more for them than they do for me. It's my own fault really."
Well we're all learning all the time, we make mistakes, we get better but mostly hopefully we don't keep doing the same ^&%$ thing. If you're lucky you'll have troubles all your life, if you're unlucky they will be the same &^%$'ing ones. We're not taught how to do this, no one comes with directions, and most ARE taught a lotta stuff that is dreck.
My parents had an incredible marriage, this February would have been 65 years and they were very happy. So I had the example in front of me and still don't know what I'm doing.
I sometimes think that relationships are the single hardest thing we do and maybe the most important.
You're not wrong there. I don't get why we as a species find it sooo hard to really get on together. If we find it so difficult at a personal level, what hope is there at a global level? Maybe humans have an in-built self-destruct mechanism to stop us from totally messing up the planet & other life forms. I really wonder about this sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trek420
We can't get along because we are a flawed, imperfect, and arrogant species. Adam and Eve, of the Bible, had Paradise yet sinned due to arrogance, just like Satan. And what did Adam say, when confronted by the Lord about why he was hiding? "It was her fault!." He couldn't even stand like a man and assume the responsibility for his own decision to follow Eve. Ha! Eve blamed the serpent! And they were created perfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yasmin
Satan knows God exists but rebels anyway. His arrogance leads him to think he will be victorious over God. Arrogance, the original sin, leads me to worry about my own actions way more than anothers actions. I can't think outside my box too much until I get mine in order. Can't even wrap my mind around global.
Just an FYI - this weekend was great. Friday night I had dinner with my friend Mark. We've known each other for 20 years. Just friends, but very close. Saturday a new friend, Curtis came over for lunch and stayed for dinner. I had a great time. Yesterday was out all day with my 3 best buddies riding around. Had a fun lunch after, just sitting, joking and enjoying the beautiful weather. If connected, I would not have been able to see any one of those boys.
Again, I am soooo torn about finding a romantic partner and just enjoying my life the way it is. I far from being a "liberated" woman and definitely not a feminist, but I like my independence and would prefer the company and friendship of good men v. a romantic relationhip with a man maybe not so good. It's good to have a forum to discuss these issues. My married friends just don't understand.
bcipam writes "I .... would prefer the company and friendship of good men v. a romantic relationhip with a man maybe not so good."
wait a minute, wait a minute. wait a minute. Why's it gotta be one or the other? And this from the gal whos friends said "we're sorry about your break up but guess what? Now we'll see you often" So I get that. ::: skips off makes note to myself "make time for long time friends even when/if I meet gal o' my dreams" :::::
And why is the alternative to "a few good men" gotta be romance with someone not so good? Don't settle! You better not. You're looking for a guy who has all those traits you like in your friends and maybe more. Right?
Well of course, but if history is an indicator, I do tend to be "blind" when it comes to a romantic relationship. Plus there is a real big difference between friendship and romance. Each of my buds are real good guys, and treat me well and show me respect, but I can't say it would be that way if we are in a romantic relationship. Men and women tend to change when romance is involved. Don't know why and if it's that way for everyone, it's my experience.
Warning: I am an unrepentant feminist. I all too well remember the classified ads listing "employment for men" "employment for women," just for starters, or the days when a boy would hit a girl and her teacher/mother would say, "that means he likes you."
On the topic of women shaping their lives around their partners, I gotta say that recently, when my husband went back to grad school at age 38, lived in another city for 3 years, and turned our finances and our relationship on their heads, I routinely recieved lectures from supposedly enlighted NY liberal types on "supporting" my husband's career. As in, I was not doing enough. It really made me distraught, also frightened that he was being advised to leave me behind. Probably he was. One day, I realized that at no time had anyone, anywhere, anyhow, lectured my husband on supporting me in MY career, even though I am just as talented and was having real breakthroughs with my own work, such as a book contract with a major publisher. That's how intense the pressure is on women. I like the idea that the pressure is on both partners in a relationship, but I don't see it.
Maybe its my age, but I am a true believer of old fashion notions of a marriage. I expect a husband to honor, cherish and protect and I expect the wife to respect, support and obey (I don't mean as a servant, but don't be inpertient, disrepectful).
A marriage must be a true partnership to work but sometimes that means one must give up their own goals and aspirations to support those of the spouse. If both are trying to suceed on their own, there is little room to support the other. Of course, every marriage is different and what works for one doesn't work for another. I don't understand where the notion came from that a woman cannot be respected if she chooses to be a mother and keep a good house as oppose to have a career and leave the children with a nanny or at day care. Can't think of a more important job that either spouse can take. God bless the stay at home moms (and dads) out there!!!
Now at my age I don't plan on having a family so I can pursue my career but I would and have put my husband ( or boyfriend) first. But that's just me.
See, See, See...that's my point!!!. It's expected of us. We're not really that far removed from the child-like 1950's housewife who was perpetually nice & self-sacrificing for her hard-working husband (no one thought child rearing consisted of hard work in those days). My husbands parents "celebrated" 50yrs of marriage about 3 years ago. Her comment: "I should be awarded a gold medal for putting up with him". What bitterness & resentment this oozes. No one can give up their goals, their life & not have resentment.Quote:
Originally Posted by latelatebloomer
Bcipam wrote:"A marriage must be a true partnership to work but sometimes that means one must give up their own goals and aspirations to support those of the spouse"....
Excuse me for saying this but, are you serious? Would your husband do likewise? I know of one husband who gave up his career for that of his wife's (she's a surgeon) & that marriage is on the rocks. I know many women with high school/ university aged children who are now resentful of what they've given up.
Bcipam, I feel that putting down the role of "only" mother & homemaker is an area where many modern feminists went wrong. I knew I was completely unsuited for both, and I married at 31 to someone who also had no desire for the father/provider role.
I also think that if a woman chooses the mother/homemaker role, she should be respected and valued by her society, have an equal say in the money & property & decision making, and have access to healthcare, retirement, and political voice apart from the whims of her husband. And the same for when it's the man who is the homemaker/nurturer. I have a problem with corporate, academic, and political positions that require the partner to act as an invisible employee - socializing, entertaining, lobbying, etc - with no protectable gain of their own.
When I was a manager at various small businesses, it drove me crazy when an applicant told me she had "only" been a mother. Those "moms" were consistently the hardest working, most unflappable employees on my crew.
I don't see how a grown adult in his or her full faculties can be asked to "obey" the other without slow death of the psyche and the relationship. I grew up with that concept, and I never liked the results that I saw.
I'm glad we've been able to keep this thread going with mutual respect. These are tough topics. I hope all of us can find our way to rich relationships that satisfy our hearts.
From latelate, "I feel that putting down the role of "only" mother & homemaker is an area where many modern feminists went wrong."
It's my belief that the early modern feminists got pushed into the corner and had to do that to "prove" that women were serious about work. My mom tried to go back to work in the late 60s/early 70s when my brother and I were teens. She was uniformly told (by uniformly male potential employers) that she didn't have the experience, the ability or the interest ("obvious" since she'd been out of the workforce for so long) in the work she was applying for. It was shameful, and it was what the feminists at the time were up against. It was the guys who started the stupid "only a homemaker" line, and unfortunately some feminists got sucked into it.
Sounds like we're of the same mind on this. The point of feminism to me is to ensure women have the freedom to pursue the work/home balance that's right for them . . . and are given equal respect no matter what direction they choose.
Cathy
Okay... here's my 2 cents worth. I'm a stay at home mom. I worked from the time my oldest was 2 mos. old until she was 8, when I had remarried and had her brother. Having had it both ways, I am SO grateful that my husband works so hard so that I can stay home with our kids. I hated working while my daughter was being cared for by someone else.
My job is here at home. My husband's is at his office (and our home office, many nights and weekends, much as he hates that.) We have no problems with our roles because we try really hard to always put each others' needs ahead of our own. When you're both making that happen, it works great. Of course we have times where we don't do a good job of living up to the ideal; we deal with those issues as they arise, but I have to say that we don't have them very often. My husband is great and I am so thankful for him!! :) I think the biblical notion of the wife obeying her husband is very misunderstood and taken out of context. I believe that men through the centuries have abused that idea horribly without themselves obeying the command they were given- to love their wives enough to die for them and to treat them accordingly.
I think when you have a partnership of mutual giving, it works. When you have a relationship where each person is most interested in having things on their own terms, there is tension, resentment and loss of respect. At least that's what I experienced in my first marriage.
Not meaning to preach... just sharing my opinion. :)
latelatebloomer writes "Warning: I am an unrepentant feminist."
women come with warning labels now? who knew. what would mine say? "contents under pressure, needs fresh air"
I agree with the slogan "every mother is a working mother", that and teaching, probably the hardest jobs in the world.
"I'm glad we've been able to keep this thread going with mutual respect. These are tough topics. I hope all of us can find our way to rich relationships that satisfy our hearts."
yep, another "only on TE" moment. Here's to all of us *toasts you all with Cytomax*
Sheesh. That would drive me absolutely berserk! I mean really truly nuts. I wouldn't cope with it at all. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Trek420
Im am very proud to be a stay at home mum. I had my first child a month before I turned 33 and at that time was a serving member of the defence force. Leaving my job after the birth of my first child was not something I even had to think hard about, I couldnt imagine leaving him with anyone else all day. I have learned so much being a mum and Im sure its fine honed my organization skills. Hey all mums can multi task without even giving it a thought. I know some people feel its a less than admirable career choice but after the birth of two more beautiful boys I wouldnt change a thing. I guess one main thing I have learned from not having a "career" anymore is that you find your self worth from other areas of life. I no longer need a job to define who I am and for this Im truly grateful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by latelatebloomer
Read "A lesser Life, The Myth of Women's Liberation in America" by Sylvia Ann Hewlett. This book was published in 1985, by a woman who was a first wave feminist, a professor of econonmics at an Ivy League univesity, and a mother of twins, who found out the hard way that there's no way to have it all. I was fairly disillusioned with the women's movement at that point in time anyway, and this book cememted my dissillusionment.
I first got glimpses at what was wrong with first wave feminism when my husband was on call 7 days a week in the oil field, sometimes working 40+ hour shifts with no sleep, and all my so-called friends would ask me is why didn't I make him split the housework with me 50/50 when he was home. I was a college student at the time. I had my kids soon after that, fairly young, and the way that being a stay at home mom was then devalued ( mid/late 80's) was to me, pathetic. That part at least seems to have gotten better, people are coming to their senses about the value of nurturing the ones who come up behind us.
We are yet to see the consequences of having our kids in childcare centers while both parents work full-time. Give it another 10yrs or so, maybe then we will finally understand the importance (or not) of rearing the children that we choose to bring into this world instead of employing someone else to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irulan
I am not surprised that we can discuss so candidly a topic so very personal to each of us, and still respect each others' opinion. That is what I have come to expect on this board.
When I married my first ex, it was pretty much a given that we would pretty much build our life together around his dream. When his dream changed - two years into our marriage - I was expected to accept and adapt - and most of all, not complain. Our daughter came along, and I *had* to work to help support us. We moved every couple of years, due to his job, and I was never able to get a foothold in any *job* worth making a career. I spent several years working outside the home, until one day I'd had enough. Decided I needed to spend more time with our daughter, and we'd just have to adapt...and we did.
This story, however, did not have a very happy ending. After 23 years, I decided I could not take the loss of my self any longer, and left the marriage. I had nothing. My so called *skills* as an admin/clerical worker had not kept up with the electronic age, and I came pretty close to being homeless for the first 3 or 4 years after we split up. No one appreciated my homemaking skills either. Out of the workforce too long. And to add to that, my attorney just *got me out* of the marriage, and said that he didn't realize I wanted him to fight for me to get my *share* ... I was so naive that I took the path of least resistance.
Am I bitter? Yeah, a little. But it was the *times* and I have learned the hard way to fight for my life. I watched my parents in their roles, and in the 40 years they were married there was little bitterness...but they seemed to be the exceptions... I no longer believe in *forever* - but I believe in mutual respect - haven't seen much of it, but still believe in it.
I married again 5 years after my divorce, and that marriage lasted about a minute and a half! We discovered we could not live together, but we have re-discovered each other in our mutual love for biking. We each have our own homes and separate lives, and that works for us - for now.
I don't envy those of you in the dating arena. It's hard. And it's even harder, once you find someone, not to totally give up ourselves - I think most of us are hard-wired that way, and it's a painful to re-work that wiring no matter when you do it. But don't give up. Learn from those of us who have made choices that have proven both good and bad...
~~~peace~~~
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yasmin
heh, day care that is a whole 'nother can of worms. better save that one for a different day.
Wow. . . the camera thing's a new one, but it sure sounds like one of my west coast loonies migrated in your direction!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by mtbdarby
mtbdarby "He checked me out head to toe, walked around me checking me out head to toe, and pulled out a camera and asked if I minded if he took a picture."
surprised he didn't check your teeth and the hooves.
"He gets no second date and zero chain rings."
ya think?
"Trek, I don't google, but I've gotten good at finding out their last names and plugged them into a wonderful WI court system website. Anyone with domestic violence (or any violence), current financial woes, or drinking related issues are a no go for me. That's what happens when you're raised by a cop, lol!"
Good luck on the old boyfriend thing, sounds promissing.
Ok ok, we rarely post jokes to this group but just got this one and it seems approprate to this thread:
A man was sick and tired of going to work every day while his wife
stayed home. He wanted her to see what he went through so he prayed:
"Dear Lord: I go to work every day and put in 8 hours while my wife
merely stays at home.
I want her to know what I go through, so please
allow her body to switch with mine for a day. Amen.
God, in his infinite wisdom, granted the man's wish. The next morning,
sure enough, the man awoke as a woman.
He arose, cooked breakfast for his mate, awakened the kids,
Set out their school clothes, fed them breakfast, packed their lunches,
Drove them to school, came home and picked up
the dry cleaning, took it to the cleaners
And stopped at the bank to make a deposit, went grocery shopping,
Then drove home to put away the groceries,
Paid the bills and balanced the checkbook.
He cleaned the cat's litter box and bathed the dog.
Then it was already 1 P.M. and he hurried to make the beds, do the
laundry, vacuum, dust, and sweep and mop the kitchen floor.
Ran to the school to pick up the kids and got into an argument with them
on the way home.
Set out milk and cookies and got the kids organized to do their
homework,
Then set up the ironing board and watched TV while he did the ironing.
At 4:30 he began peeling potatoes and washing vegetables for salad,
breaded the pork chops and snapped fresh beans for supper.
After supper, he cleaned the kitchen, ran the dishwasher, folded
laundry, bathed the kids, and put them to bed. At 9 P.M. he was
exhausted and, though his daily chores weren't finished, he went to bed
where he was expected to make love, which he managed to get through
without complaint.
The next morning, he awoke and immediately knelt by the bed and said,
Lord, I don't know what I was thinking. I was so wrong to envy my wife's
being able to stay home all day. Please, oh please, let us trade back."
The Lord, in his infinite wisdom, replied, "My son, I feel you have
learned your lesson and I will be happy to change things back to the way
they were. You'll just have to wait nine months, though. You got
pregnant last night."
speaking of old boyfriend things.... last year I got an email out of the blue from a guy I dated, um, 30 years ago when I was 15 and he was 23. It wasn't the "hey how are ya whacha been up to" kind of thing that surfaces thanks to the internet. It was more " you were my most strongest love and I threw it all away blah blah blah". In fact, he dumped me for my best friend at the time. I guess he forgot that part!! I couldn't' beleive it, I felt so invaded! It was NOT a chatty hello. I got really pissed off and told the guy in no uncertain terms not to contact me again, and that our relationship at the time was really inappropriate. In reply, I got something so rude I deleted it after reading the first sentence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trek420
Now, he just sent me a recipe. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Can you say BLOCK SENDER????
What's really funny is I am back in touch after all these years with said girlfriend , he's doing it to her too, I guess he's married and all. Jeez. Some people.
Ok thats sounds pretty creepy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irulan
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcipam
I don't really understand why we have different traits. I think men and women, men and men and women and women in any relationship both have to love, honor, cherish, protect, respect, support (sorry, don't like "obey", it was taken out of my marriage vows). I don't see why there are different traits, I believe we bring these mutually human gifts to relationships, independent of gender. I do believe men and women are different, but I can't generalize. I have also met (many) very emotional men, so I believe it's a matter of finding the person who complements you, and vice-versa. So whether that other person you are looking for is a man or woman, you seek the person who fulfills and lives up to those values and traits that are most important to you. I don't believe you give up your goals and aspirations, I believe you compromise to support each other in meeting those goals and aspirations. It may mean I put things on hold while HB goes to school, or he brings home the paycheck while I take a 3 month sabbatical. It's all unique, but it is definitely a compromise.
I am not a strong believer in the traditional definitions...I believe in the interpretation you as a person bring to a relationship, without having to fulfill a "time-honored" ideal. If you want to be a traditional wife, great. If you want to stay home with kids, great. If my HB stays home with the kids instead and I work, also great. That's the thing about a more modern age - it's getting more accepted. And dare I say it -- about the US, after living in EU, there is more snubbing of non-traditional relationships in some places here. It's just kept quiet. They may tolerate but they don't like it, and often don't talk about it. Not that the ole USA is perfect .... ;)
Enough rambling ... my 2 cents worth for the day...
The old fashion tradional notion of a relationship and marriage has long since gone out the window what with the 60's and feminism, changing morals, divorce, all the things that affect a relationship. Bottom line, men and women are different. It's in the genes and meant to be. Yes there are women who tend to be more like men (that's me - I tend to see things as a man does and am not as nuturing and supportive as most women would be) and there are men who are effeminate, sensitive, willing to take on non-traditional roles of caretaker, house dad etc.
What a couple does in a relationship is between them but once kids come into the equation compromise is necessary. I don't care which parent agrees to do this, but one should stay home and raise the children. Both men and women are equally good at this although I feel most women are better with babies and dads are better after the child reaches school age. Alot of women that I know have this notion that they have to be successful in business and make lots of money but on the other hand, they also want the traditional trappings of having and raising a family. Not to say it can't be done, but it does take a super person to do it all and I have yet to see it done successfully.
I just wonder when it became a bad thing to want to raise kids and when it became a good thing that women need to work to have a personality or identity. Yes there are women who stay home, raise kids and are isolated from the world but most stay at home moms that I know (my two sisters included) are really on the ball. My sisters manage the home finances, the children's schooling, get involved in outside volunteer activities (mostly though school and church) and know how to put gas in their car. Women who don't choose not to know.
For instance, my roommate's (a man) girlfriend was "bragging" (in my opinion) about not being able to cook or clean. I looked at her and in front of the roommate (yes I was being alittle mean) said, "no one with any intelligence can say they can't cook... they choose not to cook and like someone else do it for them." She had to admit that was true. Hey if you aren't interested you aren't interested!
Anyway, I guess I am rambling. Bottom line, I know how to have a good relationship, but I just not seem to be attracted to the right men. Now obviously I choose to be attractive to the wrong guy... what's up with that?
My mother was a pretty radical feminist in her era... and shocked and horrified her peers when she said that she believed that women should do what they wanted with their careers, and she wanted to raise a lot of children and do it well. (She had a psych degree.)
She did just that - and raised us all with pretty all-inclusive-ist values. It wasn't hypocrisy. I'm sure no marriage is perfect, either, but there really *was* mutual respect and sacrifice. The obvious question is whether the respect would have been maintained had she wanted to be a physicist instead of my father. Dunno.
Three of my siblings have lasting marriages, too; three of us are stalwartly single. (I maintain that there isn't anybody out there smart enough to keep up with me and dumb enough to put up wtih me... and more importantly I keep forgetting to be unhappy... though it has been a little odd watching how many other single chickies join the bike club and get hitched up pretty quickly.)