Building Cadence.....

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Originally Posted by 246marathon

I try and keep my cadence at 70-80 rpm for 20-25 miles as an aerobic base building workout, but the mph are only about 14-15. If I increase the cadence, I have to down shift and often feel like my legs are moving too fast for the pedals. I can hit 90-100 for a period, but the speed drops lower 12-14mph.
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Exactly my experience. The higher cadence / lower gear it feels like I'm moving too fast, not efficient. My goal is to get aerobically fit enough to maintain the 85-90rpm range (which feels pretty good) but with the power/strength I was pushing at 65rpm. Suspect that will both give me speed, but optimize my riding, find my zone. We'll see...but that's my plan/theory.

And thanks to all who have joined in and responded in this thread. Fascinating stuff, from the fast/slow twitch to the heart rate stuff.

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Originally Posted by 246marathon

Having only recently started biking, I am still trying to figure things out for a sprint duathlon next year. I can figure out the running/training, but the biking is another story. I try and keep my cadence at 70-80 rpm for 20-25 miles as an aerobic base building workout, but the mph are only about 14-15. If I increase the cadence, I have to down shift and often feel like my legs are moving too fast for the pedals. I can hit 90-100 for a period, but the speed drops lower 12-14mph. Which is best for aerobic training completely and does anyone have any good workouts to increase speed a little now and work up to a huge increase later in the spring when racing season starts?

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My base building last winter was cut short by a stress fracture... so I didn't get past anything very basic before being out of the game.

I love Joe Friel's training manuals -- it takes a lot of time to read and develop a plan, but you are essentially ending up with a detailed training plan tailored to you for under $20; it takes into account lots of factors such as amount (and distribution) of time to train, age / experience in sport, particular strengths and weaknesses... and also includes cross-training suggestions. Also you work the schedule to incorporate tapers for big "A" races, and utilizing "B" and "C" = less important races as training. The Cyclists' Training Bible is most specific to cycling, but the general heart rate manual is also very good; and it sounds like you could use the Triathlete Training Bible as well.

For the base building portion specifically, there is a great book written by one of Joe Friel's past mentees (so fits in same training methodology) Base Building for Cyclists. Unfortunately I did not get very far in reading / incorporating this before getting sidelined for the season.

For specific workouts, I tend to slot in Coach Troy's Spinervals. (There are specific suggestions for different types of workouts in the Friel methodology... I just find it easier to work to a DVD rather than a timer.) I joined the Coach Troy DVD club and get a DVD up to $35 retail for $22.95 each month (or $35 off a more expensive package, and also 10% off other purchases); the first thing I got was the Base Building series. The "recovery / technique" DVDs also fit well into base building. I also have the "travel" series but again didn't have a chance to use them last winter. I also just got an on-off bike strength Spinerval series that I think will work to use for the aerobic base-building phase -- as well as kettlebells, which is my preferred form of strength training right now.

Base building is not just biking farther and farther at a steady 75% heart rate / race pace. There is also tempo work -- a few heartbeats below the lactic threshold (body gets better at using lactate for a fuel and transporting hydrogen ions; H+ ions are what causes muscle soreness); interval work within the aerobic limits (low to race pace, low to tempo, or race pace to tempo pace); and also biking for a long time at a low heartrate / below 65% -- this is where the body gets more efficient at using fatty acids (aka fat) for a fuel over carbs, which is important for a long race. The books / DVDs above can help with scheduling these different types of base building through the season, and how to gradually transition in true interval, strength, power etc. work towards the end of the off season.

Carmichael just brought out a book on making the most of training 3-6 hours per week -- which to be honest, is all most of us have. And duo/triathletes also need to be very efficient with time. I have not purchased this yet, only given it a brief skim; it appears to be for those that already have a high level of fitness, and rather than base building ramping up to more intense work, there are several cycles of intense work throughout the year. With your base from running this plan might work for you.

I have all this just because I would like to work up to centuries, double centuries, and longer race events just as a participant. As a competitor, you might like to get more feedback from a coach, either locally or through the internet. There are also a lot of "camps" around in the off and shoulder season that could really be beneficial.

And I would love to give more specifics... but my biking / athletic mini-library is currently in brown boxes that are indistinguishable from brown boxes that are holding books for storage for the next year... and it is going to take me awhile to sort through them and find the athletic (and knitting, and unread) books. :(

Thanks ladies for all of your help. It is so nice to get replies that are so useful. I just wanted to add one question. I do understand that I need to increase my cadence to a higher level, but I have a difficult time keeping the speed up because I have to reduce the resistance to get the rpms up to a reasonable level and one that is maintainable. I feel great cranking along at 18 mph, 80 rpms, on a nice flat surface. If I tried to increase the cadence at that resistance, it would be extremely difficult, and I would have to lower the gears. Then, I feel like my legs are moving too fast for the pedals - good thing my feet are clipped in!! Anyway, I plan on getting a trainer and some of the spinerval DVDs. It is already getting nasty here in northern Indiana. I just want to make sure that I am doing things right. I plan on doing some intervals soon - Higher rpms with lowere resistance for a period of time, then a rest period. Or, should I increase the resistance to a very tough level, lower rpms, but go for a short period of time and then rest, etc.....? Any help would be great.

"See in yourself, not the limits, but the stars..."

If you will be using the Spinervals, they recommend an approximate gear combo / resistance, along with (typically) the heart rate you should be aiming for. Heart rate is related to power output (though it lags relative to power)... so you will be getting the right workout for your capabilities at the moment.

Another book you might want to take a look at is Ride Fast, which is aimed at increasing speed, culminating in a personal time trial / race. The book is aimed at cyclists that have gotten bored with riding due to not being able to break the 20 mph barrier. It assumes (I hope!) that the cyclist already has a reasonable base.

If you feel you already have a reasonable base from running, and/or want to try some shorter more intense workplans, the book above or Carmichael might be the plan for you.

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Originally Posted by 246marathon

I do understand that I need to increase my cadence to a higher level, but I have a difficult time keeping the speed up because I have to reduce the resistance to get the rpms up to a reasonable level and one that is maintainable. I feel great cranking along at 18 mph, 80 rpms, on a nice flat surface. If I tried to increase the cadence at that resistance, it would be extremely difficult, and I would have to lower the gears.

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I'm a newbie rider so I can only give you my experience. First, I think that 80-85 rpms is pretty good. There is not much resistance at that leg speed so you are saving your knees and muscles to some extent.

Second, yes, if you want to practice higher RPMs, you might just have to reduce the resistance/gear. It might feel like you are out of control at first but, as others have probably already said, as you perfect a smooth pedal stroke that should start to go away. When I started to focus on cadence I wanted to go from about 65 rmps to 80-85 rpms and while it did feel funny at first, I soon got the hang of it. I can now go comfortably over 90 rmps in short bursts to pass other riders.

Lastly, I don't know exactly how it happened but I am beginning to become strong enough to push one gear higher at my target of 80-85 rpms for a few minutes as long as there is no headwind. I don't know how exactly one should train up to this but I think that the general idea is that once you have one gear down at your optimum rpm, you can begin working on the next gear. I don't mean that that is the exact process, but that's just how I think of it. You have to teach your body or find your optimum rpm and then become strong enough to push that rpm at a higher gear. That's how I am "self-training" anyway.

Just wanted to bump this thread back to the begining i found it very helpful and thought other new riders would also.