13-year old girl wants to sail around the world...alone

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Originally Posted by Grits

Would we allow a thirteen year old to live alone in a tent on a mountainside for a year or two if he or she is a really good camper and really, really wants to do it?

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But what if she was born during her parents 7 year camping trip? And spent the first 4 years of her life camping?

And ever since she was 10, all she's talked about is camping alone for a year or two.

And she's camped alone already for a month or two before.

Then she would have developed a very specific set of skills, and then it would be her destiny to camp alone.


What do you do if you fulfill your destiny by the time you're 15? that's a lot of years after that to live without a destiny.

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Originally Posted by Catriona

But what if she was born during her parents 7 year camping trip? And spent the first 4 years of her life camping?

And ever since she was 10, all she's talked about is camping alone for a year or two.

And she's camped alone already for a month or two before.

Then she would have developed a very specific set of skills, and then it would be her destiny to camp alone.


What do you do if you fulfill your destiny by the time you're 15? that's a lot of years after that to live without a destiny.

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It is quite a long way to go from camping or sailing or whatever for a month or two to a year or two.

I don't care if she was born while her parents were sailing for seven years. So what? My kids were born while I was living in a house - and for longer than seven years. They have developed the skill set to live in a house. That doesn't mean they can live in a house alone for one or two years or even one or two months! DSS would be called in a rightfully so. Thirteen year olds are not ready to live alone for extended periods of time. I don't care what their skill sets are. We are talking emotional and mental maturity.

If she has talked about this since the age of 10, I strongly suspect it is because her father has encouraged it. This isn't the kind of idea that a ten year old would come up with on her own. She can fulfill her "destiny," if that is what it is, in a few years when she knows her own mind and is not so heavily influenced by the adults in her life. Thank goodness the government is stepping in to protect her when the people who should are not, although I will not be surprised at all if they find a way to do it regardless.

I'm not sure if the gov't has any recourse if she just sets sail and is then in international waters, but I have no idea.

It really won't be 2 years alone, since she will have to stop in to ports, and they seem to have mapped out family friends and relatives for her to visit along the way. I'm assuming that her parents will be flying around to meet her in port every so often

I was wondering is she really going to be alone on the ocean? Would there be another boat going along with her? I would hate for them to lose out on the opportunity to film everything for the documentary they will be selling.

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Originally Posted by kenyonchris

I am totally, totally against this line of reasoning. There is supporting your children, letting them spread their wings and fly, and providing a safety net of guidance, support, shelter, and knowledge to help keep them safe until they have enough life experiences to go it alone and deal with the problems thrown at them. A 13 year old has simply not been on this earth long enough to go it alone ON THE SEA, alone, for two years. It doesn't matter how extraordinary the circumstances behind their upbringing. For these kids, their skills alone are extraordinary, so hone them, give them guided experience, allow them to do the incredible things they do within their scope and experience within reason.
The risk to reward ratio is wrong here. An error, a mistake, an accident is far, far amplified to what it would be where help was more readily accessible. Again, training for such a feat is one thing. I can see someone going with her, alongside her, ready to step in should conditions or circumstance warrant and letting her do it on her own otherwise.

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Exactly. Technical skills do not take the place of experience, maturity and judgment.

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Originally Posted by Grits

This sounds like a goal of the dad's which the daughter has bought into to please him. I'm sure he is counting on a book, movie deal, and all the money that will come from the publicity he can squeeze out of exploiting his daughter. :mad:

Would we allow a thirteen year old to live alone in a tent on a mountainside for a year or two if he or she is a really good camper and really, really wants to do it? Would we even allow a mature thirteen year old to live alone in an apartment or house for a year or two? No. It is not healthy. This is a time when young teenagers are developing socially (as well as physically, mentally and emotionally). Being alone in the middle of the ocean is not conducive to the development of a healthy teenager.

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If an adult was around on boat to assist, that would be better. Otherwise, no, at that age, for a physical journey of several years solo, full of uncontrollable risks beyond her physical control and mental capacity to predict long term or within a few minuates. Does she have the skill to read the water, sea and wind. I wonder if up in the Arctic, if an Inuit parent would still allow their child at that age to go sledding with husky dogs for 1-2 years even after teaching them intracacies of wayfinding skills among snowy tundra, high winds, sun, etc. Apparently the whole traditional skill of wayfinding in snowy tundra is getting increasingly lost since knowledge to not transferred widely to the children there now. That's partially why skidoos are used or people uh..drive vehicles across the frozen river/sea, etc. ..or fly. I'll believe it in capacity of a pubescent gifted teen and for them to execute, if a child is already immersed in a culture that consistently teaches from near infancy about the sea/jungle/tundra and all its vagaries, patterns, signs, etc. Not the private agenda of a parent pitted against another parent.

This ain't the child prodigy sawing away on the violin, solo. Now in that situation, a child is in control of his passion in a controllable environment for himself and by others. Like Mozart was in kindergarten years..)

I'm rather intrigued by all this, is she physically strong enough for all this? I haven't read papaver's article links yet. At my last job, one of the engineers did sail across the Pacific and around the Asian sea area there....it's physically demanding, and of course, mentally also. He was out at sea away from his children and wife in Canada for a year.

I'm not a parent but I am a sailor (still pretty novice, much less experienced than this girl). I say no way. A more experienced female sailor friend of mine, also not a mom, feels differently. So many things can go wrong that a child of that age just doesn't have the resourcefulness or maturity to handle. If she's dismasted, can she jury-rig a mast? If the engine fails does she have skills oto work on a diesel engine? The pirate thing is a biggie too.

I agree with those who said NFW. She can do whatever she pleases at 18, but not now.

I have 3 daughters.
25, 19 and almost 7.

The answer from me would be NO

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Originally Posted by Grits

My kids were born while I was living in a house - and for longer than seven years. They have developed the skill set to live in a house.

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Mine haven't:o

All other things aside, I find the whole concept of setting records by age a little disturbing. Since "everything" has been done before, to set a record you have to do it in an unusual way, like be the youngest. But what does this prove anyway? Children are, by definition, unfinished, immature, undeveloped, and need the protection and guidance of adults for many things, a right and need that today is protected by law. Certain childen can have certain unusual skill sets and be just as capable as adults in certain areas. But on the whole, setting out to do something lengthy and challenging as the youngest is just absurd to me. Because it never stops - the next one will have to be 12, or 11, or 10. It smacks a little of trying to set a record by being the least-prepared, or the one with the poorest skills.

I surely hope she gets to fulfill her dream of sailing around the world, but I don't see why she has to do it when IMO she's lacking some of the essential skills to safely handle life in an adult world, just to set a record. A trip like that is no less wonderful for not being record-breaking, and she'll be even better prepared for it once she's an adult.

The Dutch government decided she can't go... yet. She'll be examined by several psychologists to see if she is capable or not to do such a trip. By the end of October the judge will decide if she can go or not.

But still... she will go to different countries with different laws... so who says she won't be arrested in another country with more strict laws...

I still don't think it's a good idea for her to leave on a 2 year journey without interaction with other teenagers. How will her social skills develop when she's alone 90% of the time?

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Originally Posted by papaver

I still don't think it's a good idea for her to leave on a 2 year journey without interaction with other teenagers. How will her social skills develop when she's alone 90% of the time?

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You may be surprised to know that people are asking that same question about teenagers who are physically surrounded by hundreds of other teenagers. They ask because the teens are all immersed in technology: texting, myspace, online games, etc...

So, that actually may be the least of her challenges. :)

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Originally Posted by witeowl

You may be surprised to know that people are asking that same question about teenagers who are physically surrounded by hundreds of other teenagers. They ask because the teens are all immersed in technology: texting, myspace, online games, etc...

So, that actually may be the least of her challenges. :)

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texting in the middle of the ocean...hmmm I don't think so. And if she's away for at least 2 years, she won't have any friends left. You know how harsh kids are... out of sight out of ...

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Originally Posted by papaver

texting in the middle of the ocean...hmmm I don't think so. And if she's away for at least 2 years, she won't have any friends left. You know how harsh kids are... out of sight out of ...

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Oops, I guess my point was unclear. What I was trying to say was that people think that even kids who are physically around one another are missing out on social development because of technology. That means, according to them, she may be no worse off.

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Originally Posted by witeowl

Oops, I guess my point was unclear. What I was trying to say was that people think that even kids who are physically around one another are missing out on social development because of technology. That means, according to them, she may be no worse off.

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Yeah but even when they don't verbally speak to each other, they are still communicating (texting, chatting, facebook,...).

Speaking as the mom of a 15-year-old boy I've recently deposited at college (7 hours away by car), no, I would not let a 13-year-old of mine do this, for many of the reasons already listed.

Some parents are just plain stupid, and others are just opportunistic and use their kids. I think this girl's father may be both and should be smacked upside the head.

The girl (who had been forbidden to start her journey around the world and had been placed under state supervision) has now been reported missing. Her boat is still moored.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8423325.stm

Wonder if the child was undergoing counselling at the time.

She needs it...after all that media hoopla, etc. The whole mix plus father's own sailing, etc., just sounds like situation hard on a teen and not healthy.

They found her in the Antilles. She took five grand out of her bank account and (I presume) flew down there on her own.

I'm sad that she didn't get to go, but someone else is going to beat her anyway. http://www.jessicawatson.com.au/

Karen

But Jessica is 16 already and Laura is only 14. I think for most kids there's a lot of maturing that happens in those 2 years.

Interesting to read Jessica's blog. I would go bonkers on a boat for that long, whether by myself or with someone. Now going around the world on a bike, that would be a different matter altogether!

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

I'm sad that she didn't get to go

Karen

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She is way too immature to go on her own... her leaving for the Antilles without telling someone is just one example. She is just a spoiled brat who wants everything her way.

Tuckervill beat me to it..Jessica Watson's journey is being followed by the Australian media as closely as they can..Her practice time didn't go well & she apparently fell asleep & rain into a tanker...:eek:

About this 13yr old chick...I'm agree with Papaver that the young un just shown she's an immature little $%*$*$ & doesn't deserve the chance.

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Originally Posted by papaver

She is way too immature to go on her own... her leaving for the Antilles without telling someone is just one example. She is just a spoiled brat who wants everything her way.

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When you set expectations for children, they meet them.

Karen

I'm wondering if the naysayers would be so harsh if the child in question were a boy.

Karen

Some of us know responsible 16 & 13 yrs. old teens.

However as I said much earlier in this same thread, sailing solo in rough wide open seas is physically demanding even for experienced, physically stronger adults.

I personally knew a guy who sailed solo the Pacific from Vancouver to Asia for a full year. He left behind his wife & 2 sons at home. Yes, he said it was tough at times. He was your level headed type of guy..just a regular quiet engineer who wasn't as flamboyant as some of the other people I knew and worked with. He also is a highly experienced backcountry mountain cross-country skier in British Columbia. He also goes winter camping. Probably has a good sense of survival skills and common sense.

The 13-yr. old seems abit lost psychologically and that is now being manifested by running away. Responsible children (and many of us were, at that tender age :)) do not run away from home base if they are loved for their intrinsic goodness.

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

I'm wondering if the naysayers would be so harsh if the child in question were a boy.

Karen

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Of course I would.

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

When you set expectations for children, they meet them.

Karen

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So... the adults forced her to be immature & run away by thinking she was too immature to sail around the world on her own?

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

I'm wondering if the naysayers would be so harsh if the child in question were a boy.

Karen

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Well, considering that if anything a boy at that age would be LESS mature than a girl...

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Originally Posted by Catriona

This sort of reminds me of 10-15 years back where there was a 7 or 8 year old girl that was trying to be the first 7-8 year old to fly across the US (with her father & coach in the plane). But anyways, there was a crash and they all died...

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This is what I thought of too.

Interesting, I just asked my 13 year old daughter if she thinks a 13 yo should be aloud to do this and she said "no". My 11 yo son said the same. I agree with my kids too.

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When you set expectations for children, they meet them.

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I can expect my kid to get straight As, mow the lawn, change lightbulbs, and not complain so much; history has demonstrated that he does not meet these expectations. (He is capable of getting straight As, mowing the lawn, and changing lightbulbs; not complaining so much.... not so sure about!)

Every parent I know has had to learn that sometimes, kids do things one doesn't expect at all. They are not little adults, nor are they clones of their parental units. They have their own ideas, some of which are boneheadedly stupid. (This is true of adults, too, of course, but one hopes that the ratio to good ideas/boneheaded ideas increases with age/gained wisdom.)

You can bet I'd be of the same opinion regarding this round-the-world venture regardless of whether the sailor were male or female.

There is one thing that really troubles me about her getting a plane to the Dutch Antilles. It is really impossible for a minor to travel by plane without parental consent. I'm betting her father knows a whole lot more about this.
It was the father who gave her the idea to do that world trip in the first place. The mother was strongly against this.


The Dutch government has already decided that she will be put into foster care.

Following this with interest. By default, the solo sailor on a long passage (13 years old, or not) is breaking a cardinal rule of seamanship... that there should always be someone standing watch. We've had vessels on the ocean have close encounters with other vessels in which the crew were asleep. You might not think there are other vessels "out there" but there are plenty.

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Originally Posted by Ritamarie

Following this with interest. By default, the solo sailor on a long passage (13 years old, or not) is breaking a cardinal rule of seamanship... that there should always be someone standing watch. We've had vessels on the ocean have close encounters with other vessels in which the crew were asleep. You might not think there are other vessels "out there" but there are plenty.

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I don't even kayak in the ocean without another person there. And I'm a good kayaker who can self rescue and the rest of the rescue skills necessary, wear a pfd, carry safety gear and radios...

Maybe she should just take a balloon ride or crash a white House party instead.

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Originally Posted by Ritamarie

Following this with interest. By default, the solo sailor on a long passage (13 years old, or not) is breaking a cardinal rule of seamanship... that there should always be someone standing watch. We've had vessels on the ocean have close encounters with other vessels in which the crew were asleep. You might not think there are other vessels "out there" but there are plenty.

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As Jessica Watson found out as she was bringing Ella's Pink Lady to Sydney for the start of her voyage and failed to see an enormous tanker! I guess that is the reliance on technology.

I guess its the very challange of breaking this rule that appeals to so many. Although there is discussion in the australian media today about abolishing any "youngest" world records.

I think 13 is too young but I fully support Jessica Watson in her quest to break Jesse Martin's record as the youngest person to sail solo and unasssited around the world. He was 17 when he left and 18 when he returned.

Well the judge decided that Laura Dekker can leave for her journey. Against her mothers will. And that's disgusting.

It's not the fact that she wants to travel the world that bugs me, it's the fact that she wants to be the youngest who sails the world alone. What will be next? A 7 year old?

I totally agree. It's getting a bit out of hand. She seems like a bit of a spoiled brat to me and is loving the attention.

Just to bring everyone up to date--saw this on the internet today.

http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/blog/...ous+cape+horn/

Australian 16 year old completes her round the world solo sail: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=artslot

Interesting that the council that keeps track of speed sailing records eliminated their "youngest" category.

Sarah

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Originally Posted by sfa

Australian 16 year old completes her round the world solo sail: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=artslot

Interesting that the council that keeps track of speed sailing records eliminated their "youngest" category.

Sarah

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That was a wise decision to eliminate that category.